Vanu bias confirmed?

Additionally, the Gladius have similar A.KPH and beats the Canis on A.KDR on Dasanfall. I'm pretty sure this includes the pre-nerf version of the Canis as well.

Comments like this make me think you are purposely trying to be disingenuous. You're trying to tell me the only MBT that climb a slope/mountain can't or doesn't point its main cannon up?...

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think the problem with magrider being less capable at shooting aircraft comes from the main gun being attached to the hull, meaning if it needs to turn left or right while slanted up forward onto a cliff (to increase aim angle up), it loses the angle as it turns, while the other MBTs and lightnings don't as much since the hull stays tilted up on the slope as the gun pivots right plus up (magrider can only move up). The disconnection between hull and main gun effectively should give it an extra pivot point or 'joint' to leverage the hull being propped up on a slope or rock.

This is just my guess though, someone who plays tanks a lot would have to clarify, or do a quick test. I have shot down plenty of aircraft with the magrider and prowler.

Additionally, for aim, I make use of strafing the magrider a lot to aim shots, while the prowler just sits still while turning the main gun by mouse, as it has no real need to move as moving throws off aim. On a hill or rock, it is much harder to strafe.

Turret or hull rotation doesn't matter for the angle. What matters is the elevation angle of the gun and in a few cases the elevation, a Magriders gun is mounted slightly lower than the TR and NC guns. Magriders have (or used to have, there have been changes) lower elevation range compared to NC and TR.

What Skraggz means though is that the Magrider can climb and use the steepest slopes allowing for artificially improving it's elevation angle. While true, this isn't the same as a full 360 degree elevation angle advantage as a slope only helps you elevate your gun in one direction.

You're right about the bloom per shot, but the starting ADS'd CoF on the Gladius is 0.35 in all stances; worse than any other SMG. This is, of course, completely independent of rate of fire.
Hipfire isn't unusably bad, but the point is that it is numerically worse than other SMGs, again in all stances.

At any rate, I think Gladius is fine; I've used it a good deal myself. But when people call it "OP," I feel the need to point out that it would be curious for a gun that is inferior to its counterparts in every measurable category to be "overpowered."

Firstly, I was never comparing the new flash weapons to each other.

Second, if you want to compare unrelated guns, then you open yourself up to wildly varying interpretations of what makes one better than the other. You say the Jackhammer is better than the Lasher because it's a usable shotgun while the Lasher is not good at 1v1s. I say the Jackhammer is worse than the Lasher because it's a mediocre shotgun that works but adds nothing to the NC's arsenal, while the Lasher is a uniquely capable suppression weapon that adds functionality to the VS aresnal.
If you're going to compare unrelated weapons, you cannot make an objective ranking, because everyone will have their own reasoning for why one is better than another, and you can't compare performance stats, because the weapons have different roles.

Perhaps I'm underestimating distances, but there are a lot of times I have to aim high to tap-fire headshots with silenced rifles and such. Not a massive deal, but in a heated battle on less thing to focus on can be very helpful.

The spin-up is slow, but every shot fires a little faster. Against shielded heavies in hectic fights or against multiple enemies the fights can sometimes last long enough to build up to the higher RoFs, at which it just shreds. Also has auto-aim ammo for full on tape-the-trigger mass of fire.

I wish it was just an AC-X11 with terrible damage degradation. The horizontal recoil is the worse of all 200/~500 guns while the horizontal recoil is very average for the same set. While on it's own the recoil isn't bad, it's far from smooth "Emissary" levels of recoil.

According to http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/items/weapons the Gladius isn't even the most popular SMG, let alone all infil weapons.

Don't get me wrong, I agree the Cyclone is probably the best SMG in the game. However, you claimed it had "extremely comfortable vertical recoil" which is most certainly doesn't and that the Eridani was bad or at least notably suffered due to having a 25 round magazine, even though the Cyclone shares the same. It's a good gun, but it's not the best weapon around.

Gladius is largely worse than Canis is most regards. In my opinion, the Gladius is the worst SMG, period.

While you are correct my main issue with his comment is that it "couldn't shoot air at all" which is factually incorrect.

Nothing hard to grasp here. If you get a good weapon that is good but not OP you don't expect it to be nerfed.
However, VS have had a rain of OP weapons, and the mantra is always the same. Using the Starfall as an example: They claim it's not OP and in fact weaker than other options, even though stats eventually turn up that it's definitely OP. Yet each time such a thing appears they defend it. They did it for the anti-tank Saron, they did it for the old PPA, they did it for ZOE and everything else the VS got that was OP. They shouldn't have been surprised that an OP weapon was nerfed. If NC or TR got a Shredder canon for a secondary topgun you can be sure they'll use such an OP toy with immense joy, but not be surprised it was nerfed soon after buying it.

Also the "usual suspects" only point out that these players are wrong. Should the "usual suspects", which could just as easily be the people who claim that NC/VS/TR shotguns are more OP than someone elses or the VS dudes who proclaim every OP toy they get isn't, simply not respond?

Next time some NC guys claims TR shotguns are more OP than the NC, I'll keep my mouth shut and just nod along with the insanity, is that what you want?

Grossly exaggerated. NC barely got passed Tawrich Techplant in the first year of the game. An entire freaking year. While the natural border is all the way up crossroads, Xenotech and Scarred Mesa Skydock. So unless TR was constantly mobbing VS and outpopping you how could you play a horde mode? Oh and since TR was holding on to Tawrich and most of the fight on the northern border was around Rashnu southern, Old Stockpile+Fieldpar and Blackshard mining it wouldn't exactly be easy for the TR horde the VS unless TR was equally OP and stomped NC just as hard as the VS.

The explanation for that is easy: VS takes most things personal. The 0,75 nerf hit all weapons of one category to make other weapons more viable. The change did practically nothing to all the weapons changed as their performance barely changed, but VS was screaming murder before and after and saw a large pop loss. Not because anything important had actually been changed, but because they left after feeling slighted.

Hmm hmm, like this one that claims that population on Miller was 33% equal around 2013 based on the then accessible population site they opened: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...2-server-hourly-population-statistics.100859/

On Indar. The responds to the 33x3;
"Oh, so Miller still the biggest server even after other merged .
Bit sad that we had not enough VS on Esamir and Amerish. Most times when I try to play there we have too many foes (Indar has 33/33/33 most times, though).

Thanks for information."

NC also went through some rough patches (one of which was ZOE which was also the time I took a break from DWG and really starting playing my NC character and joined 252v) but nothing quite as severe as VS did. But yeah, the TR overpop was definitely the main problem.

2013:
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/r-i-p-miller.130926/
2015:
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...glory-to-the-almighty-terran-republic.231121/
2015:
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/miller-imbalanced-population-dbg.246918/

As for taking things personally, it was a weapon they've grown to enjoy. The mobility which in many ways define VS was gradually being pick off. It was a part of the meta as well for the MLG ready 420 crew which then went to the Anchor. I mean you can change a weapon into something which performs similarly and still ruin it for everyone who liked the old ways. It also represented the dreaded streamlining of weapons which has culminated in a VS anchor and NC LSW or SVA. Humans aren't really rational in the end, if we were we'd probably have solved a lot of the issues we face in the real world.

Side point; I even saw an old vid of VS/NC teaming up against TR during the times where they actually landed 50%+ global.

In a 96+/96+ fight, a wall of Vanguards and maybe some repair Sunderers can advance on a position and pretty much blow away anything in front of them. If they take damage, they press a button and it mostly stops.

In that same situation, a wall of Magriders might try and use their "OP STRAFE OMG" ability, or magburner. They'll fall all over each other and die. Less HP. No shield. Less DPS.


In a point hold, a rush of scat maxes can enter a building, and kill anything in two shots, then duck around a corner to reload, and do it again. NOTHING but a wave of chucked C4 can even begin to prevent this. With any support, any dead MAX units can be rezzed and repaired, but the C4 is only replenished if the players leave for a little while.

Vanu maxes? Guns only. Infantry doesn't die NEARLY as fast, it can shield or run away. Range? Doesn't generally matter much inside buildings. Even an NC should be able to grasp the fact that building fights are short range, and most capture points are inside buildings.


HA troopers firing at air? Well, a VS can use lockon rocket launchers, those are all about the same. But the Lancer is not a very good tool for the job, the speed is variable at different charge levels, and it is hard to get hits in. Lancer isn't even very good at range anymore, which was it's only selling point before.

Strikers have clips, they LITERALLY steer themselves if you can even get slightly close, and they can be spammed quickly, leaving the troop to reload or switch to a gun. And TR can also use lockons if they like.



But... the VS get a FLASH GUN that isn't garbage? On the one weapon platform that is destroyed in ONE SHOT by many things? And this is an example that people pick to argue that VS is favored?

But yeah, sure, make cold heart VS specific. There is exactly ONE sniper rifle that uses heat, right? I suppose a few directive weapons use heat, but I don't see anyone shelving useful implants for a reload, on the off chance that they get a kill a certain way.

When was the last time anyone ran out of ammo, if they weren't running around solo?

Yep, and population kept switching. For example:

Checking this one, you can immediately notice that people respond with the VS being higher pop not an hour before when the alert started. Further replies also indicate that TR was only overpopping for a week or two, rather than years and years that you claim. I'm not even going to go through the other links as you can find posts about each faction. You do remember the times since oh about 2013 when you could find 2 or 3 posts, each blaming another faction for always overpopping? It happened on all servers, all the time.

I'm going to rephrase this sentence with something of the exact same value:

"you nerfed my OP weapon? But but I liked it! I knew it would be nerfed but now i'm used to it! <sniffles>, do I really have to learn to play with a normal balanced weapon? can't I have it back pwease? Pwetty pwetty pwease? Can I, <sniffle>, can I pwease gets it back? Whaaaaaaaaaa <sob> Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa <sob> I just wa <sob> want my OP toy back! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa".

It doesn't matter if you "got used to it", you had an OP weapon and shouldn't have been surprised that it got nerfed. If you used it so much you got used to it that's your problem. And no, I wouldn't have had a problem with getting used to it and then getting it nerfed, I would at worst (or best) have enjoyed the OP toy and then have no problem with a balanced weapon in it's place.

Vanguard defense has also been picked off and almost picked clean. TR was also picked off from the blatantly OP old Anchor to what we have now, although the Barrage pushed it back into OPness (the Prowler was competitive when Anchor was rarely ever used, having Barrage used in every fight makes the Prowler way more dangerous on average).

"My pistol was changed, it was part of the meta for a long time!".
Good response: "So what?"

Response to your sentence: So what?

It's called "you can't please everyone".
And a crowd who is so hung up about the old ways you can never please unless you don't try to improve the game. It's sad to see such people go, but not as sad as a normal player who has genuinely good reasons to leave rather than "they changed something and I liked it the old way". Especially if the reason you leave is "they changed something OP and I liked it OP".

So your reasoning is "let's keep OP weapons OP because we aren't rational"? That's basically what you just said there. But because we aren't rational we should be using the rational way to improve things. Such as nerfing OP weapons to balance it out and prevent the game a premature death.

Side point: You can find VS and TR teaming up against the NC as well, and the TR and NC against the VS. This because during the entire pre-meltdown era it was better to take ground from the weakest member until they had nothing to give and then finally go and attack the biggest one simultaneously. So your claims prove nothing.

Good description of the 4th factioners who left VS.

I thought you said 0.75x ADS speed wasn't OP but no, my reasoning was what I wrote. That this marked the point when things started to get streamlined, rather than maintaining faction traits they started muddying the waters with removing traits, adding TR carbines to NC/VS to "solve" the problem with CQC carbines, which eventually led to this point where factions are just given each others weapons.

I don't know what claims you think I'm making but if you don't remember this event when Miller was at its worst, I'm sorry you weren't there. It was an amazing time despite the horrible pop in issues with that many players in one place.

Perhaps you missed it but I did acknowledge the game improving when the WGs started to rotate and that for the most part TR has been the overpoped faction, just that most 4th factioners went from VS to TR so hurt VS, mostly, a lot more in terms of population.

Hey, this game has 3 factions and players sometimes switch between them. Doesn`t mean that they should be punished for that. And stop using specific examples to show how VS have underpop. Usually, population is more-less balanced with 1-3% difference.
Sometimes even TR have 20% of total population on server. But noone is crying about that.
Right now VS players have:
-The best AV flash weapon
-The best weapons for newbies
-The best heavy weapon for HA
-The best MBT for competitive play
-The best ESF for dogfighting
-The best camo and playermodels that blend to the envirmoment during night
-Rocket launcher with the best range
-Bigger hull size for bullets on some infantry primary weapons
-OP heat mechanic
-Implant that directly upgrade weapons with heat mechanics (Can TR have an implant that directly improve RoF of their guns on kill?Can NC have an implant that directly improve raw damage of their guns on kill? No. Only VS is allowed to have one)

The time being referred did not have a minor difference of a few percent. I'm talking about this because someone is in denial of the impact certains nerfs have had over the history of this game. Furthermore, it as been Demigan who's been pushing the VS crybaby narrative for several posts, I just had enough of his childish language and refusal to understand the point that nerfs will cause ripples. Anyone who's played on Miller is aware, or are complete denial, that the TR faction had long periods of overpop and VS similarly had issues of severe underpop. If Demigan's forum join date is accurate he wasn't even playing during some of these times.

These days, population are pretty good but that's not the timeline being discussed.

1)Playtime/age have nothing to do with wisdom and intelligence.
2)We are not complaining about underpop, we are complaining about how much OP equipment VS have.
3)Population number should not justify ridiculus power of weopons of VS.
4)Population on Miller do not represent all servers.
5)VS quite often have overpop too. They have population bigger then TR right now.


P.s. 524 planetmans on merged EU server.

The timeline of the OP is current day, not his fault that discussion has been derailed in favor of trying to prove who had it worse. Again the op is present day.

Also op wasn't asking for nerfs, no one really was in this thread. It mainly was pointing out how a implant favored one faction.

1. I'm responding to Demigan and helps to be aware of/having been present of a time you deny having happend.
2. Haven't said that even some others desperately try to twist/add words in my mouth to make sound like that. In my very first reply to Demigan I explained this.
3. Correct.
5. Wasn't talking about now. Was talking about a specific timeline on Miller. Traditionally though, the main server where VS had overpop (when they had it) was Emereld. There have been dips and ups.

I was responding to a reply from Demigan. He brought up, for example, the 0.75x nerf, and on it went. It is a forum, the OPs point has been thoroughly gone through and then threads tend to take divergent paths.

Only because people tend to say "we have it worse we deserve this" when in refrence of fairness... but sure.

So according to you a huge portion was just 4rth factioners? So why would this only happen to VS, and not to say the TR or the NC after a nerf hits them?

It isn't, but we were talking OP things in general and you keep throwing 0.75x ADS speed on that heap.

0.75x ADS changes were perfectly aimed at making the factions less streamlined by making sure more weapon types were useful. Unfortunately they picked a trait that did virtually nothing for the weapon category in question.

I remember Miller being at it's worst several times now. But to try and make it seem as if the VS were underpopped for more than a year or even from launch to 2015 and that VS was "fighting horde mode" is absolutely ludicrous.

I didn't miss it, I also didn't miss that you still kept to your mantra of "VS was underpopped from launch to forever".