[Vehicle] State of MBT's?

So what are the drawbacks? The only case of a drawback I can think of is the role of ghetto AA against ESFs and that would be it. Double barrel, or should I say the RoF coming out of it, is a boon in many more cases than it's an obstacle. There is a reason why people generally favor fast RoF weapons over slow RoF ones.

On the benefit side:
- less overkill
- current feedback on the accuracy of your shots
- RoF allowing to manage more targets without significant downtime
- much easier time against AV infantry putting pressure on your ***
- better suppression as there are no windows of opportunity between the shots big enough to take advantage of

Compare prowler to vanguard. It has a spike damage on a 4s cooldown. Countless times I wasted an advantageous situation against enemy vehicle because I have been unable to seal the deal in time due to all the reaction time granted to the enemy, that allowed them to cut LoS and flee to allies. Usually there is no point in pursuing as it equals suicidal overextending. Prowler would exploit many more such situations than a vanguard by the virtue of overwhelming the target with high, consistent DPS. Enemies are burning before they even figure out wtf is going on.
Because of the lousy RoF I fear AV infantry crawling hills and roofs because I know they can spam rockets till cows come home and I have no means of evasion and reliable handling of the situation. The shield gets you only so far for all of 6seconds. I doubt prowler users find themselves in such grave situations as often.

yes, I glanced at the MBT stats on oracle, I found entries for all BRs, Q4 and BR100+ there.

When you say "people", I think this is mostly the less experienced people that prefer such weapons, and especially for infantry weapons (which I don't think/hope you had in mind writing this). They are more forgiving, but that doesn't mean there isn't a downside for experienced users (to be frank, the downside is also there for inexperienced users, they just don't know it, and cannot take advantage / work around it).

Relying on a higher rate RoF also forces you to stay exposed for longer periods of time. Furthermore, is also requires you to constantly keep your crosshairs "on" your target with less room for maneuvering in between. It also exposes you towards both enemy fire, and attention (both things you want to avoid). I'll give some examples:

- You are chasing an enemy vehicle over terrain. As a Prowler, you will be inclined to shoot often and pay less attention to the road (or else you aren't using your "advantage" of higher RoF/DPS at least). You would more or less have to keep your crosshairs on your target the entire time. Now, if I do the same in a Vanguard for example, I am able to land a shot, and then I have more than 3 seconds to either focus on maneuvering, lining up the next shot, checking my surroundings etc etc.

- You are engaging enemies with much higher damage potential than you, or you simply want to make use of guerrilla tactics (for instance if you are being chased by a Vanguard which can destroy you in a fair fight, it helps to plink it down before it can get close). Being forced to stay exposed for longer periods of time opens up a greater risk of return fire from the Vanguard (which can negate the advantage you have), and it also takes longer than it does if you can start moving away directly after 1 shot.

- You are trying to engage fortified enemy positions and attempting to take out one target at a time: But the overall volume of say, infantry AV is overwhelming. It helps being able to scoot out of cover, fire a single Alpha-volley (which is also why the Halberd is my favorite secondary on all tanks) and quickly scoot back into cover before taking too much damage.

- An addendum to the 2 previous points: Being exposed for a longer period of time also heightens the risk of potential counters being alerted to your presence, which can make them beeline towards your position. Note, experienced tankers will often prefer to stay away from the main zerg, and thus rely more on positioning and stealth tactics to stay unnoticed, rather than their allies. Regarding stealth tactics, the P2-AP also forces you to show up on the minimap a much larger percentage of the time firing, as it is mostly a constant stream of shells. This largely negates the Vehicle Stealth upgrade most experienced tank users run with. It is also much easier to detect a Prowler using audio only compared to the other 2 MBTs, due to the sheer volume of fire. Each MBT's has weapons with distinct sounding firing sounds, so that is more or less even.

- Fighting off infantry wearing Flak Armor (especially those standing on ridges, only allowing for bodyshots). Since the P2-AP doesn't 1-shot infantry wearing Flak 4 or higher (which, in fairness, most infantry doing AV-work should be wearing, especially if fighting at range) it can be a pretty frustrating experience trying to engage such infantry clusters. I generally prefer to stay away from them when using the Prowler (despite it having a repuation of being the "best AI-tank". Note, I'm not saying it isn't best at AI-Work, just that there are downsides to most things). With the Vanguard or Magrider main cannons they are 1HKO's every time, making it more punishing for the infantry to peek out. Note, for defensive purposes I prefer being able to reliably take out targets, rather then being able to fire quicker, but with less lethal shots. Reliability is key for experienced users.

First of all, I took the liberty of numbering the points since the "Reply" function isn't working for me, and having to do manual BB codes for quoting every time is annoying. Sorry for that.

1) Less overkill is nice, but I don't think it is very important, especially considering all the random damage flying around, and the use of secondaries to finish off targets. If you are using the tank as 1/2 it would of course make much more of a difference, but I hope we aren't focusing on 1/2 tank balance here.

2) I'll return to the aspect of it applying more to the inexperienced crowd, as I generally don't need more than 1 shot at max to range in (even after coming back to PS2 after many many months of hiatus). After a Prowler "range-in" shot you should reload anyways, to not lessen your "pseudo-alpha" from the 2 shots in your barrels, meaning it makes even less of a difference, at least for someone experienced.

3) I don't really understand what you want with this point, but I guess you CAN change targets more effectively. Generally though, with the sluggishness of the tank turrets, I rarely find this an issue. I would rather say the DPS is what makes it able to engage multiple targets at once. Even then, if you come up against superior numbers, chances are your DPS isn't enough anyways (unless you rely on Anchor, hence the enemies being stupid).

4) I agree that it is a benefit when fighting AV-infantry NOT wearing Flak Armor, but if they aren't wearing Flak Armor, they aren't properly equipped for the situation in my opinion (you are fighting TR, you want to destroy tanks, you use Flak Armor because you aren't stupid, you aren't 1HKO'ed). See my above point on AV-infantry wearing Flak Armor if need be.

5) Better suppression means practically nothing to me as I'm not fighting from within the zerg, but rather flanking and actually being useful. Trying to put out suppressive fire from a flanking position usually draws massive attention from enemies (due to the nature of suppressive fire) which is NOT what you want in a flanking position. The ONLY place I can see suppression being effective, is when farming/camping infantry with HEAT/HE, or perhaps shelling a vehicle pad. I haven't used those two variants of the P2 in years, so that isn't relevant for me.

In these situations I prefer to be able to reliably kill infantry in 1 shot, but that might just be me. In my opinion, a Prowler isn't much better off than a Vanguard in crowded/enclosed areas, in particular because what the Prowler generally has going for it when fighting infantry, is terrain wise advantages compared to the Vanguard due to maneuverability and speed, both things which cannot be taken advantage of in the situation you described (at least how I saw the situation, I might be mistaken). The Prowler only really has an advantage over the other 2 in situations where it is possible to reliably land shots taking advantage of Indirect damage or if the infantry aren't wearing Flak Armor. The Prowler IS better at farming unprepared infantry though of course, but I didn't understand the quoted text to refer to such situations.

I generally only find this an issue if you are fighting at very long range and/or fighting from the midst of a friendly zerg. If you go out flanking and choose your targets/fights and not just fire at everything all the time (curse you random gunners!!!!) I don't have issues finishing my prey. The ones that DO get away, generally do so because they reacted quickly enough that the Prowler likely wouldn't finish them either. Once more, I hope you aren't talking 1/2 balance, cause that skews the picture heavily. I guess if you are farming vehicle pads with many vehicles spawning I can see an issue, but that shouldn't be an issue very often.

Thank you, good to know

Note, I'm not saying the double-barrel is a definite downside, I'm primarily responding to you not being able to see downsides. I'm saying this as a pretty experienced user of all 3 MBT's. Also, these are just short examples, I can clarify if you are uncertain about some things if need be, or explain in greater detail.

Also, I'm not advocating for the Prowler being the weakest tank or anything. I personally think the different MBT's excell in different areas. I find it much easier to be effective in larger fights (compared to the other vehicles in the fight) using the Vanguard/Magrider though.

A side note: I'm curious to see why you didn't respond to my answer as to why the Prowler perfoms better than the other 2 MBT's? It is pretty well accepted that it is more beginner-friendly, a better 1/2 tank, and certainly more effective than the others with only a minimum of certs invested.

Darn, I managed to get this ready too late to make an additional edit:

The stats I've seen on Oracle going back to ~Jan 28th, shows the TR Halberd massively overperforming compared to the GK looking at KPU (note, the VS and NC Halberds are ALSO outperforming the GK). Hell, the Saron is also overperforming compared to the GK.

Looking at MBT deaths: I also see the Titan AP being responsible for 24676 MBT deaths (4,87%) while the P2-AP is responsible for 26466 MBT deaths (5,22%). This seems very even, and could easily be explained by the P2-AP being more effective at landing the last hit over their secondary over the Titan AP. The Prowler is more effective at killing other vehicles, which isn't a surprise as it is a better "farming vehicle" as well. Furthermore, I see the Saron overperforming the GK when it comes to killing MBT's. I can't see what points to the GK still being an issue at least, but feel free to correct me.

Note, I'm simply curious.

guess what, people of all skills play the game, and mediocrity is by definition average. You are developing your aim for countless hours, all the while you are taking it up the *** from the people who just get to use easier toy. A bunch of slobbering monkeys can be proper scary in deploprowlers parked on top of a hill.
In case of infantry weapons full auto spray rules supreme. Semi-autos are inferior (oversized recoil compared to effective damage output) and bolt actions require serious amounts of skill to be effective with, with brutal punishment for misses.

I tend to formulate parts of the reply in my head on the fly and it tends to make me zone out. They eyes go over letters but the brain doesn't register it.

It's the only viable 1/2 tank. Using MBT as a taxi and spamming from inside a mechablob doesn't count. I thought about tryharding in a 1/2 vanguard but the RoF is a nonstarter really.

**** like this is not doable with any other MBT, because you simply need the secondary to cover the gaps. Getting away with the AA gun against ESFholes? Lol.

And its power doesn't diminish with growing cert investments/BR.

Numbers for GK don't tell the whole story. GK is imo the strongest when it comes to its influence on the enemy behavior. It's an easy mode plinker with good damage that just works at ranges I can only dream of. Vanguard without the shield is simply not battle ready. If you burn it, you will have to wait before any bold move, if you don't, you will have to repair behind a rock, again. Either way you are not getting anywhere.
GK also largely neutralizes the harasser support. Harassers at range can ignore pretty much any other secondary and can be aggressive with applying pressure. GK? Good luck with that. That means the TR have the enemy where they want it, how they want it.

Being unable to match the long range potential is aggravating given that 2 out of 3 frontlines of the Indar T are on the open desert. You cannot afford to burn shield to leave your own goddamned base just because there are GKs 500m away.


The TR can literally defend bases from behind them by not letting any vehicle get close for longer than 10s.
I've seen the TR defending their own base (Abandoned Offices) with a bunch of prowlers on the ridge 200m behind, no peasantry was needed and they laid accurate fire up to the very Howling Pass gate. Fire a shot or two that did absolutely nothing to prowlers 500m away, get smoked in return and fall back for repairs behind the rocks 30m from the base, wash rinse repeat.
I've seen prowlers parked at the base of the Crown obliterating NC approaching Ceres Hydroponics from the NW.
Losing 1/5 of the hp before I even find the pixels on the horizon is not my idea of fun. Even if among all the chaos created by remote prowlers somebody retaliates it's nothing a single person cannot outrepair easily.

My opinion is that the vanguard is in trouble because easy mode secondaries are what wins the mech battles with generous LoS. As the scale grows, the engagement range gets longer and the NC get the shortest end of the stick here. Good luck hurling enforcer bricks when the enemies can either lay lazor accurate full auto on you from a hex away (the TR) or strafe the **** out of your shots no problem and tap your clumsy *** with paced rounds of their no-drop secondary (the VS). Shield is irrelevant when you are still 100m short of your effective range. You are not going to advance.

You specifically wrote this:

I responded to your question, by listing numerous drawbacks. You then disregard them and claim that they are only relevant for the super skilled users? Whatever dude. Anyway you put it: Give my Prowler a single-barrel cannon with the same DPS (or heck, reduce the DPS, I wouldn't mind) and I'd take that over the double-barrel any single day of the week, month or year.

Really? I see them as a bunch of cert piñatas waiting to be smacked. To each their own I guess.

Oddly enough it was the weapon I started out using (RAMS .50) and learnt the game using it prior to picking up serious tanking. I didn't find it THAT difficult, as long as you aren't a spray-n-pray monkey.

I've seen the NC and VS doing the exact same thing. Even without using a lot of tanks, 2-3 tanks up there (of any kind) can deter those pushes. Using the example like only the TR can pull it off is misleading. I've also done it myself, using all 3 MBTs without having much issues.

I think Chal (if you know of him) would like to beg to differ, as he does use his Magrider as 1/2 with the Ranger. I also do it myself. Just because you cannot do it, doesn't mean it is impossible. Would the Prowler be more effective than the Magrider in this role? Very likely, which is also what I advocate fixing, but not by destroying the tank balance (by blindly nerfing the Prowler overall and buffing the Vanguard, without looking at their niches).

Let me give you a TLDR then:
- You claimed the Prowler performs better than the other MBT's based on main cannon performance. I then argue that those EXACT data are biased, due to the disparities I mentioned in the DPS relationship between the main cannons and secondary weapons (which has implications for both 1/2 usage, un-certed usage, etc etc). I also then follow-up with the GK being out-performed by other weapons. You then defend your case by saying the GK deters? Right, I guess the Vulcan also deters people, and that is why it is underperforming?

What about when I said numbers don't say the whole story about the Prowler main cannon stats? You just ignored that completely. I guess that doesn't fit your arguments so it isn't worth commenting on?

For the record: Here are the numbers I've been using:
Data collected: Dec 14 --> Feb 14
TR
- Halberd: 12,30
- Vulcan: 12,61
- Gatekeeper: 11,08
- P2-AP: 14,05

NC
- Halberd: 13,15
- Mjolnir: 16,40
- Enforcer: 14,05
- Titan-AP: 11,40

VS
- Halberd: 15,65
- Aphelion: 13,44
- Saron: 14,00
- Supernova FPC: 12,09

If we look at MBT deaths (last 30 days):
P2-AP: 26687
Gatekeeper: 7929

Supernova FPC: 17850
Saron: 8158

Titan-AP: 25105
Enforcer: 7390
Halberd (NC): 7013

Note: There was no data in the top 24 of either TR/VS Halberd deaths, and the same goes for the Vulcan and Mjolnir. The Aphelion gets an honorable mention killing 2722 TR Prowlers. #24 has ~2K is responsible for 2k vehicle deaths. For simplicity I could add 2k to all the numbers, but the risk of uncertain bias is great, besides: The data does imply that the NC Vanguards destroy significantly more MBT's than their TR/VS counterparts, largly thanks to the usage of both the Halberd and Enforcer, whereas the other two factions largely rely on 1 single weapon for their MBT AV duties. Do I think the Vanguard is largely overpowered like these particular stats suggest? No. I urge hesitation in using single data sets, and prefer large sets of comprehensive data, which at least recognizes the differences in the tanks in the analysis (like the Prowlers main cannons being a larger portion of the tanks overall DPS when used 2/2, the Prowler being more effective with less certs poured into it, and the additional prowess of 1/2 Prowlers compared to 1/2 Magrider/Vanguards).

I don't have anything against tweaking the Vanguard, but it shouldn't come at increased effectiveness in 1v1 MBT duels. What the Vanguard needs is to be better at farming (if you want the numbers to align) while the Prowlers farming capabilities is lessened. I've advocated (for YEARS, literally!) that the DPS disparity between the Prowlers main cannons and secondaries should be tweaked to bring it in line with the other MBTs. If this is done, it would solve multiple issues: First and foremost it would give more incentive to get a gunner for TR Prowler drivers. Secondly, it would make the stats used for comparison much easier to interpret (it seems like you had issues doing it, no offense). Thirdly it would bring the Prowler in line with the other 2 MBT's in regards to power when used as a 1/2 tank.

A side note to this: The Vanguard secondaries are destroying many more MBTs than is the case for the secondaries of both the Prowler (expected) and Magrider (slightly less expected), a significantly larger portion than what is accounted for by the main cannons.

Overall it seems a lot of your arguments on why the Vanguard is weak seems very subjective/anecdotal, and I don't really see the stats backing any of it up. It also doesn't seem like you have used the Prowler much yourself, so I would say it must be hard for you to form an unbiased opinion of the tank. Stating your opinion is of course perfectly fine, but arguing based upon such things as "I doubt Prowler drivers find themselves in such situations often" isn't the best. Especially due to you perhaps shouldn't even be in that situation (in ANY tank) to begin with. The Prowler isn't some magic weapon that defends you from infantry just by being a Prowler for instance.

This data is of course VKPH, no idea how I forgot to state that in the original post.

That footage... unseen without stealth within auto detection range against Lightings and Sunderers and not more than one at the time is shooting back.
This IS possible with every other MBT. Not only because 1/2MBT > 1v1Lightings/Sunderers, just use 2/2, your problem if you dont use the full potential of your MBT. This is just the case of having the bigger vehicle.

So stick to 2/2MBT fights, because you cant do anything if you cant get rid of an enemy 2/2MBT contesting a key position or covering other vehicles.

Here; searched for MBT within a month, first video, thats something we can work with:



The vanguards just mow down their targets doing nothing special than driving straight forward, while with the prowler you need to lure them in mines or having a "king-of-the-hill" position behind the enemy lines (where you need to get in the first place unseen) to win.

This video is pretty accurate for my ingame experience with the prowler. You cant rely on mines and covered hills with a terrain the enemy cant handle.

Not reliably possible. 1/2 magrider and 1/2 vanguard **** their pants when they face as much as a harasser (not to mention the TR will never face a vulcan).
Prowler finding a good flank can anchor, unleash hell to melt enemies before they know what hit 'em, pack up and leave. Vanguard can hurl rounds on a 4second cooldown and be nearly defenseless against peasantry all that time. Magrider with a fixed turret can be trivially flanked.

yeah, let's ignore that the farm on vanu at the beginning was pure lightnings in a cramped space, already under pressure, and the prowlers were a case of a hardcore flank against xroads siege (lol just "driving straight forward") full of shooting prowlers (some already damaged) in the ***. Even in a clip when the shield was wasted on a lib, the idiot prowler crew just drove in front of the nose to expose the tailpipe like a bunch of noobs and yet still managed to pull a mutual kill.
Let's also forget that we saw a prowler manhandling 3 harassers and a magrider and that's after an epic farm on several VS tanks like they were made of paper. Vanguard would do jack and **** there because it's unable to put its damage/rate of fire into overdrive to serially melt enemies, which once alerted will descend upon its position pretty quick to collect free certs. 6 seconds of godmode with so-so DPS won't cut it against superior numbers.

Why wasn't there an example of shameless parking lot full of GK prowlers on top of a hill blasting Indar Ex or the Howling Pass/Abandoned Offices field from 500m away till cows come home? Because that's my experience with prowlers. The TR get an undisputed rule over half of ******* Indar for free and that matters in alerts a lot.

Just because it isn't psosible for you, doesn't mean it isn't possible for others. I've done the exact same thing using both the Vanguard and Magrider. A good Harasser crew is dangerous for any 1/2 MBT, Vulcan or not. The Vulcan is really only dangerous if you let them sneak by you and get close, which is your own fault. Yes, having situational awareness in the Magrider is more difficult than in the other two, but it isn't impossible. Also, you claim the Magrider can be trivially flanked due to the fixed turret, but how about a Prowler using Anchor? It has to keep it's sights on the targets while firing nearly 100% of the time (even without Anchor it is much harder to do a full, or even a half sweep of the turret in between reloads). Flanking Prowlers is super easy, don't give me that BS.

Then you claim the Vanguard is defenseless against infantry, while the Anchored Prowler is what? Immune to said infantry? What scenario are you imagining here if I may ask? Are the infantry charging the tanks head-on while the tanks fire while holding still? That is the only case I can see the Prowler having a significant advantage over the Vanguard.

First of all, "epic farm on several VS tanks"???? Do you seriously call that an epic farm?

A Prowler destroying 3 Harassers and a Magrider at once is purely due to the enemies being abysmal. Did we even watch the same clip? The first Harasser was clearly injured, the second Harasser basically killed itself and was subsequently finished off with a single round or two (the others would be able to do the same) and the 3rd Harasser wasn't even able to hit the rear of the Prowler. Not to mention the fact that all 4 vehicles charged STRAIGHT at the Prowler, having a positional advantage, and they clearly didn't know how to traverse said terrain. That Magrider climb was pathetic. I could've easily defended that position in a Vanguard or Magrider against such enemies. I most likely wouldn't even need to use Shield on the Vanguard there tbh. If that battle had happened in more favorable terrain for the attacks, any MBT would be dead in its tracks. Bad example.

You also claim that enemies would instantly come to collect free certs from a Vanguard, but how come they won't be able to detect the Prowler? It is far easier to detect a Prowler than a Vanguard.

So this is bad behavior to you when Prowlers do it, but when the 3 Harassers and the Magrider do it, you don't even mention it. That was clearly the reason the Prowler survived, but I guess it doesn't fit your argument so you didn't bring it up this time around eh?

In my opinion, that only happens when the TR already have a massive pop advantage. If they don't it is supe easy to just flank them and collect the free certs. I also see Magriders and Vanguards doing the exact same thing, denying acess to the lower ground.

Also, thanks for ignoring my response to your other post. Care to elaborate on that? No offense, but you seem to be very selective in what you respond to, and which arguments you use. You can use one argument if it suits your case, but if it goes against your argument, you ignore it. Much like you are ignoring responses doing the same thing.

Reliably? No chance in hell. You seem to have some delusions of grandeur.

Lol. Decent harassers will get close. Why wouldn't they? Surprisingly big hp pool, superior speed, maneuverability, bonus turbo vs a literal brick.

Prowler can still rotate its turret. And who says you have to sit anchored all the time? There is zero time penalty to transition. Move.

Well, that you get blinded by the stream of shiny certs flowing is your problem. Having anchor doesn't outright entitle you to spamming with 100% of maximum RoF with zero interruption.

Any scenario with infantry. There is 0 benefit to a dog slow cannon with a huge overkill against infantry. Infantry tend to be numerous and the vanguard is simply hardcapped by its RoF in how much pressure it can handle.
Ever tried to miss a weapon on a 4s cooldown? You are swimming up the **** creek almost instantly because the hordes have smelled blood and the rockets start adding up. And who said you have to stay anchored?

Even the HE cannon is extremely mediocre in pure AI on the vanguard because, again, RoF.
Let's say you ambush a sunderer... so what? Medics rez faster than you kill **** and people have plenty time to fire rockets at you. Prowler main spitting hellfire with 2-3 times the frequency would seal the deal right there.

My assumption is that there are 2 parts of the same action, the farm on tanks on the road near the base and then the defense against harassers and the magrider on the same hill.

Vanguard is slower in reducing the enemy numbers.
Much lower dps => less successful ambushes => risk of not sealing the deal => enemy cover+repair => counterattack. Prowler: bam bam owned, next bam bam owned. Who is supposed to counterattack if every vehicle showing up on the screen pops like a baloon?

Harassers don't have to manage weak spots like the MBTs do, so their orientation is irrelevant. Why should I mention it?
That prowler was a sever case of the amateur hour, because it literally gave the win away by voluntarily exposing the back "armor". It's not like ****** terrain and buttery treads made them lose control, they did it on their own volition and told the vanguard "hey, have some".

or the professional prowlfarmers know all the excellent farming spots by heart and are tripping over themselves to park there as soon as any opportunity arises. If between IEx/QRC the TR are north, you can bet your sweet *** that there will be prowlers on the hill, overpop or not. Yeah, getting on top of that hill to collect these free certs is so easy a caveman could do it, let's drive next to at least 2 enemy bases across painfully open space with zero cover. Surely nobody will notice.
Similarly the hill behind Abandoned Offices is a no-brainer when the TR own Mao. It is almost always packed with prowlers. Again, good luck flanking that and don't tell me i'd need to go 3 bases back to the Crimson Bluff and take a one way ticket down the cliff.

When magriders and vanguards do it, they are merely annoying and their lower effective range puts them in harms way. Their range doesn't extend to 500m. Prowlers at 500m are 99% safe.
Magriders and Vanguards won't ever be able to defend bases without the presence in the hex. On the other hand prowlers at the base of the Crown cover Ceres Hydroponics and there is jack and **** you can do about it.

No prowlers aren't the end all of tanks, no magriders aren't either, no vanguards aren't either and they are actually very balanced. Once again here's my little chart for you people.
Mags: Mid-long
Vans: Close-mid
Prowlers: Close and long.

So where do you want to be with a mag vs. a vanguard preferably? Long range, and mid range will come down to skill of the pilot.
Where do you want to be with a van against a prowler? mid range where if he undeploys you cut his head off and if he has a vulcan its inneffective.
In a prowler where do you want to be against a van? Long range.

You see where I'm going with this? Its pretty easy really, follow this little advice I'm giving all of you (not just you vaphell) and spend some CONSIDERABLE time in your mbt of choice and you will start to see the barriers you guys are imagining disappear...

I don't know what to tell you, the denial is real I guess. You seem to have issues projecting your own faults onto other people. All I can tell you is I've sat in those exact locations using both the Vanguard AND Magrider and taken out armored columns laying siege to the bases below. It isn't my favorite thing to do in Planetside though, so I don't do it all that often anymore. It is far from impossible though.

Maybe because you know the terrain you are in, and know where they will most likely come from, and you keep an eye out. Furthermore you can use things such as Tank Mines to protect obvious flanking routes. A combination of the two things, like spotting them, and then luring them in where you want to, is a valid strategy. If you are using your tank 1/2, you should be doing things differently from when you are 2/2, which should(?) be obvious.

And is it illegal for the Magrider to svirvel a bit along its axis to gain increased situational awareness? Even while firing at full RPM, the Magrider has time to make a quick turn to a side to get a look at your surroundings (alternating between sides means you get a good field of view). I know this, because I do it if I'm uncertain whether I can be flanked. It is even neccesary at times when you are 2/2, for instance if your gunner isn't on comms, or is busy defending your tank from something else.

If we aren't talking firing at full RPM (which was what my example was based upon) then there is no excuse for getting flanked. There isn't really a penalty to looking around and keeping situational awareness. Look.

What a mature, non-condescending tone you have there. You are such a refreshing person to argue with. *Sigh* I specifically wrote flanking Prowlers felt easier to me, compared to flanking the other 2 MBTs. How does that mean I'm blinded by a stream of shiny certs?

Where did I claim it entitled a person to anything? I was simply stating facts. Why is it that (according to you) something is relevant for the Magrider (OMG IT CAN'T LOOK AROUND ITSELF) when the Prowler can just "not fire all the time and look". The same goes for the Magrider, you can still look around between shots easily, whilst mainting full RPM. The Prowler cannot, even while not obtaining full RPM (assuming Anchor of course). Sure, you won't be Anchored all of the time, but it is also a matter of choice when to start the flanking maneuver.

You specifically wrote:

That implies you think flanking and destroying a couple of Magriders is an epic farm, since you distinguished between the "farming of Magriders" and the "manhandling of Harassers + Magrider". I found that laughable, if you seriously think that is an epic farm. I've stopped entire armored columns in their tracks many many times, which didn't just consist of a couple of tanks and Harassers.

This doesn't even make sense. Are you sure you understood what I wrote? The Harassers (and Magrider) charged STRAIGHT into the front armor of the Prowler, not taking the terrain into consideration. They then couldn't traverse the terrain, and proceeded to practically get stuck getting up the terrain (one of them losing at least half its HP to flipping). Instead, they could've either flanked or just kept their distance and EASILY destroyed the Prowler. So let me get this straight: You use an example of 4 people/crews that play SUPER bad, and then use it to back up arguments that the Prowler is super strong? They could've destroyed that Prowler with no losses if they weren't ******** monkeys. I haven't seen a worse usage of an example in a long time, nicely done, that laugh came at a good time

Right, just ignore my points and spew your own nonsense. Also, the situation you should most commonly be in, is that the infantry aren't exposed to easy HE-splash hits, as they should be taking cover. That then forces you to rely on direct hits, where the Vanguard will always kill what it hits. None of the Prowler main cannons can 1HKO an infantry. You would rather be forced to 2-shot the infantry (which can easily duck into cover after the first hit) than actually killing them? How is them surviving better than them dying and having to get a medic to ress them?

That you even bring HE into this discussion is silly, HE is garbage for what it does on all tanks. Did you know that an infantry wearing Flak 5 can survive 3 (THREE) full-splash damage hits from the Prowler HE?

The Vanguard against Flak:
Time: 0sec - Fires 1 shot
Time: ½ sec refire ends and reload begins
Time: 4 sec and reload is finished (assuming maxed reload speed cert line, 4 sec - ½ sec = 3½sec reload).
Time: 4 sec - Fires 2. shot and infantry dies

The Prowler against Flak:
Time: 0sec - Fires 1 shot
Time: ½sec refire of first shot ends
Time: ½sec - Fires 2. shot
Time: 1sec refire of second shot ends and reload begins
Time: 3sec and reload is finished (assuming maxded reload speed cert line, 2½ sec - ½ sec = 2 sec reload)
Time: 3sec - Fires 3. shot
Time: 3½sec refire of 3. shot ends
Time: 3½ sec - Fires 4. shot and infantry dies.

Wow, the Vanguard is so much more effective than the Prowler!

This would only be true if you could kill EVERYTHING before they would be able to spot you. Highly unlikely on the actual battlefield. Even in the specific example of the Prowler, where the enemies OBVIOUSLY ****** up and gave the Prowler a free win, would have more than enough time to spot the Prowler for nearby enemies. I never mentioned counterattacks at all, but the drawing of attention of MORE enemies. The Prowler (assuming you are using Vehicle Stealth like an actual tanker, you ARE using Vehicle Stealth right???) is forced to show up on the map nearly 100% of the time, compared to the Vanguard only having to show up ~ 1 second of the firing cycle (assuming 1 AP shot, 2 Halberd shots in the firing cycle). That alone is a huge deal when flanking.

I know those hills just as well as any "prowlfarmer", trust me. And I flank exactly those positions on the regular. I don't see your point. Maybe it's because I know the terrain and can use it to mask my approach? You claiming it's open space with zero cover implies you lack imagination.

It also sounds like your faction needs some serious help in deploying aerial vehicles, as they are an excellent counter to exactly that position you are describing.

Thanks for the well wishes of luck, but it's not needed. I do it on the regular, as do most experienced tankers I know. They aren't afraid of going behind enemy lines to get a good flank, and that is actually how you get **** done. Your statement makes me think of you as someone who only stays with the majority of the zerg, and is too afraid to break away and actually do some work, instead of just farming. Feel free to correct me of course.

Also, your last statement in it being a 1-way ticket down the cliffs, is pure BS. It sounds like you need to get to know the terrain better, as it is pretty easy to get back up (without going through the bases). Yes, even the Vanguard can do exactly that.

First of all, if you die to anything at a range of 500m, you need to consider whether tanking really is your thing. If you are losing vehicles at such ranges I don't know what to tell you. Nothing is actually "effective" over those ranges, except shooting at stationary vehicles like deployed Sundies (and Magriders/Vanguards can hit those just fine, if you can't hit them in a Vanguard you need to learn how to aim).

Vanguards/Magriders can also defend Ceres, I've done it personally, and I've seen it done by others. However, the scenario you are describing seems a bit iffy, as there should be cover available to assault Ceres whilst being shielded from the Crown.

Also, the further away from the zerg you are (you are speaking of Prowlers at distances of 500+m), makes it easier for aircraft to take them out. I don't know about your server, but the servers I'm playing on enemy aircraft are frequently roaming behind enemy lines, carefully avoiding the hotspots and taking out strays and flankers. How that doesn't happen to the Prowlers you are describing seems either to be rose-tinted glass from your part, or simply your server being lazy.

I still have a few questions you have (conviniently) ignored:

- Why did you ask for drawbacks on the double-fire mechanic, and then just dismiss then quickly? In fact, most of my answers were appropriate for all skill levels, so your grounds for dismissal was pathetic.

- You claim the Prowler tops every MBT chart there is, when in fact the Vanguard is performing better overall (or at least on par). Or did you only look at the main cannon kills? You never answered what your claims were based upon, and I even put out the numbers clearly. You just ignored it.

- Your claim that the Prowler was performing better was based on main cannon kills according to your post. Can you not see why that is purposely skewing the picture due to the nature of the Prowler?

- You claim the performance difference between the Prowler and Vanguard is also present for the high-skilled, but when looking at MBT deaths for Q4, the Vanguard main cannon is actually netting more overall kills than the P2, despite the P2 having better odds of landing killing blows over the secondary (and other sources) compared to the Vanguard. How exactly is the Prowler overperforming then? The Enforcer, Gatekeeper and Saron are all performance on par, so that can't be the reason either. Then you have the P2-HEAT, but the NC Halberd alone trumps that, so that isn't the issue either (and that isn't even considering the Titan-HEAT).

Overall you are incredibly annoying to argue with, since it seems you deliberately ignore points that you cannot respond appropriately to.

even more resources against a 150n buggy, 75n per head. And then you reposition and it's all for naught. Just fantastic.

for which they might fall or not. Not everybody gets tunnel vision and at the end of the day there is very little to prevent them from bailing at the drop of the hat.

Are we really comparing slow rotational speed of the whole chassis vs 10x faster turret rotation? Harasser can trivially run in circles around the 1/2 magrider, never risking taking any damage.

You argued as if anchor somehow made it hard to look around. Nobody said 100% of theoretical RoF has to be achieved at all times, especially when you are doing shenanigans on the flank. My take on archor is that you use it as a temporary damage boost, not as a way of life.

The context was infantry, remember? Even if you go full ****** with HE, on a vanguard it's simply not a tool of mass murder.

Code:

Titan-150 HE      All BRs         37.21
Titan-150 HE      Q4              39.27
Titan-150 HE      BR 100          40.64

P2-120 HE         All BRs         52.38
P2-120 HE         Q4              58.32
P2-120 HE         BR 100          63.98

Do you see that consistent 50% difference in the best case AI scenario?

so I take it it's a good thing that 2 salvos = 4 hits?

wait a minute, 4sec is more effective than 3.5sec? Btw, did you know that the prowler can make a calculated decision to cut the times by roughly 30%, which is something that a vanguard cannot? Mindblowing I know.

Please show me the road full of cover to the Indar Ex hill when the territory is split "naturally" between the parties, ie Indar Ex, Indar Comm Array and Coramed Labs all belonging to one faction. Which part of squeezing between the hill and Indar Ex and then squeezing between the hill and Coramed to get to the backdoor path to the top is cover rich? And that's even without taking into consideration air smelling blood and flying back and forth, all over the place.

Abandoned Offices, "natural" split, ie you own the Howling Pass and the Palisade + 1 base, maybe. What is the path to the Abandoned Offices farming lot that doesn't involve hundreds upon hundreds of meters of open wide space in plain view?

If you are plugging the combined arms talk here, it's a ******** argument. This is not how the majority of the pop plays the game and 3 years down the road it's completely irrelevant how the game is supposed to be played. MLG bubbles of a handful of outfits do not the true state of the game make.
And how is that different but equal? TR can pull a bunch of prowlers and harassers to create a huge no-mans land so suddenly everybody else has to pull air out the *** to root them out, but when the tables are turned going air never becomes a strict necessity for the TR? Btw I've heard that GK is serviceable even against air so it's a double whammy.

If it's so easy, details please.

I don't lose them (ok, sometimes I do when triangulated by several sources and having no cover viable against them all). I just repair behind a rock, and again and again and again and again and never getting anywhere, despite supposedly having all that wide space to move? Does that sound like a compelling TvT gameplay to you?

GK is effective. Nobody on the move ever had to fear an enforcer 300m away because it's a pure lottery. Leading pixel accurate lovetaps with near zero drop is not a lottery, it doesn't require a rocket scientist to figure it out. Superior velocity of deploprowler is more "effective" compared to the counterparts (and it's not like its so much worse than the titan by default). Prowler primary >= other primaries, prowler secondary >> other secondaries. And the winner is.... the prowler!

Owner of the Crown possibly owns the TI too and can use the stone arch and the TI itself to change the angles, exposing a different set of sundie spots. That leaves you with what, 1 easy spot near the base, maybe? Every other spot requires legging it through an open space which can quickly turn into a farm if the defenders get a firm hold of the main building.
Either way no matter how you slice it the whole road from the NW is in LoS. Even if you account for usual sundie losses and bring in a fresh supply, prowlers are much more able to thin the herd out en route.
Long story short, prowler has more dps, better accuracy and easy mode secondary to work there. What vanguards and magriders can do pales in comparison to the prowlers.

You mean peekaboo? Peekaboo is just one aspect of the tank play and most likely happens because the alternative of rushing is a suicide? Ususally it's because the frontline has ground to a halt. You are not moving anywhere either way, so congrats. Also given that the vanguard is pathetically clumsy, there goes your ability to capitalize on the worked out advantage with a blitzkrieg move.

The vanguard line is mediocre at strong pushes against an evenly sized enemy force 200-300m away because it loses the dps race forcing it to either burn shield (which means that now they are inherently inferior to other tanks and are not going anywhere for a while) or fall back giving the space away. I don't think I have ever seen an equal number of vanguards pushing prowlers or magriders across open field with a generous LoS. At best it's a stalemate, but usually they start to crumble being outevaded and/or outdamaged, falling back one by one.

Vanguard is simply made all wrong given its supposed traits. Shield makes it a 1v1 close/mid brawler but it lacks the speed and the maneuverability to synergize with it, effectively making the shield a compensation for **** tier agility + a bit of bonus on top to make it work in 1v1, which the bonus falling to zero with range. The powerful cannon on a long cooldown lends itself to meticulous sniping which is reinforced by the clumsiness. It's a self-contradictory tank where half of its traits actively works against the other half. The TR whine the prowler is self-contradictory too but it's not, at least not to such a degree. You just have 2 vehicles for the price of one and you can switch between them freely. Play accordingly.
Vanguard is simply not a multipurpose tank in how the game is played. It may be a tank tank that melts faces in 1v1, but that's not how 96+ ****storms that decide the map situation are won, acrosss the huge variety of scenarios. It lacks speed, maneuverability in tough terrain and the DPS to be a a consistent, massive pain in the ***. It thrives only in a very small number of environments (hard requirements: short/midrange LoS to limit the number of damage sources overwhelming its ability to tank damage, negate the prowler range superiority and the magrider's ability to evade consistently, yet passable terrain not crippling its already clumsy nature).

Vanguard is performing on par or better where? In borderline meaningless AA?

Are you telling me that the secondaries somehow offset the inferior performance of the main, to the tune of the 25-50% difference in PH stats between mains? Any proof to support it? Which secondaries? The boombox? The enforcer that is good but nothing that would leave the NS halberd or the GK in the dust?

Overall kills? Who cares? What matters more is how much bang for the buck you get, which is traditionally measured per unit of time. XXX-PH stats are more relevant. More overall kills because of a substitution effect given that the NC harassers are not charriots of Death and the dependence on tanks is stronger in case of NC?
You claim secondaries are on par. More kills on main, secondaries on par, so how is prowler not superior in total? What kind of math makes it work your way?

The mental gymnastics you do to deny that the TR rule supreme in the ground mech play is mindboggling (best performing tank, best performing harasser/on par with the VS)

Everything peachy and all, but there are crucial points on the map where the transition from long to short/mid is nearly impossible as the terrain in no way facilitates it. Effectively the vanguards are forced to take it up the *** against longrangers in these places and that's that. To make things even worse they can't supplement their long range AV with infantry based sources of AV. Ravens, phoenixes and AV manas fall short of what the prowlers are capable of and there are no lazor MAXes or lancers with effectively infinite range to bail the NC out. Literal short end of the stick right there.


It's easy to opt for long range given that falling back is the simplest thing in the world and that you have a circle with a 400-500m radius to choose from. Sometimes you can stay deep within your territory. Easy peasy.
On the other hand, excluding ridiculous claustrophobic areas that are death traps for everybody involved, short/mid play happens in cover rich but traversable areas. We are talking terrain like rolling hills dotted with rocks here and there. There is cover and there are fire lanes. Both sides try to outmaneuver their opposition to reach own optimum while denying it to the other side. Transition between close and mid is doable, depending on what you emphasize.

Given the above the prowlers can be made to work everywhere (staying far away or working their way close, utilizing cover, maybe bruteforcing it with DPS if caught in less than optimal spot), mags to a lesser degree can to (staying far away, staying away from close range traps in a mixed terrain), but vanguards cannot (close/mid ok, zero long).

The whole problem with vanguards is that the game should promote the midrange play where the tanks might prefer +/-50m or so, where skill is what makes or breaks **** and the effects of borderline uncounterable ******** from afar where you are barely able make out the pixels are diminished. The devs inexplicably chose to inflate the ******* AV range so far that the vanguard simply falls behind being outgunned by hundreds of meters of effective range.

First of all, how about you getting some experience with the things you are actually talking about instead of just spouting baseless claims?

Whatever, all the MBTs are very vulnerable when 1/2 to a competent 2/3 Harasser crew using AV weapons, I simply explained that there are counter measures that can be taken. Tank Mines have worked for me against some very good Harasser crews in the past, and before you claim otherwise, no I don't just put down mines and camp. I put them down in response to possible threats. Especially if you see them coming like you should. I'm often more afraid of a Harasser sporting a ranged AV weapon (like the Halberd) compared to one using the Vulcan for instance, as a Vulcan Harasser is so much easier to predict.

If they don't fall for it, they won't get close, and I get to survive. That's just fine and dandy for me. Also, they can just as easily bail at the drop of a hat against a 1/2 Prowler, unless the Harasser crew is ********, plain and simple.

First of all, don't twist Things around. This was obviously a comment aimed at situational awareness, of which it is very possible to have in a Magrider, even whilst 1/2. Yes, it won't be the same as a 2/2 tank, but that goes for the Prowler/Vanguard as well. How much experience do you have in the Magrider to be able to claim you don't have any situational awareness and they are super easy to flank? I've had the pleasure of both fighting against AND using Magriders for quite a bit. I've also fought against some of the top Magrider crews in the game regularly.

It being able to run in circles sounds like you haven't bound the rotation of the Magrider to something else than the default. But I guess your experience in a Magrider is rather limited afterall, just like it is for the Prowler. Also, if it gets so close, it isn't impossible to just ram the suckers using Magburn, given some experience using it.

It makes it harder to look around whilst firing, which is pretty obvious. If you are going to flank ANY MBT, you should be waiting till they are at least somewhat engaged. If the Prowler is 1/2 and firing whilst Anchored, do you expect it to still swirvel the turret? Or do you expect it to stop firing and swirvel around? Once again it sounds like you've barely spent time in a Prowler.

No, the specific context was defending your tank from infantry, but nice attempt to twist the discussion in your favor, using only the stats supporting your case. Nothing new here.

Are you seriously THAT ******** that you think I somehow didn't accidentally switch around the Prowler and Vanguard name? I don't even know what to say.

You can cut the time somewhat using Anchor yes, but you are also much more vulnerable. Sitting still for ~2½ seconds against several infantry aiming at you is a BAD idea in a Prowler, but then again, you have most likely barely spent any time in that situation. But sure, give me advice on when to use Anchor

Can't you please stop twisting my words? I never wrote the area was cover rich, but that there was suitable cover (like rocks and stuff) to be used if done appropriately. This involves using your experience and situational awareness to be able to flank effectively. You don't just drive down in a straight line and completely ignore the enemy presence. Acting like it is impossible, gives me certain implications about your tanking style and experience though. Good to know.

You then use aircraft to claim it makes it more dangerous to traverse the canyons. But of course it isn't dangerous at all to sit on top of the cliffs? What a nice hyperbole you got there, care to share? My experience tells me aircraft are hunting those hills pretty effectively most of the time, at least on the servers I play on. I can't speak for yours of course, but you won't be able to just sit there for hours several hundred meters from allies and be completely uncontested from air. And no, the GK won't protect you from Air targetting you. Maybe if you had claimed they were 1/2 Prowlers all using the Walker or something, but the GK? No chance in heck.

I go up exactly those places rutinely and clean up the area of Prowlers/Magriders/Vanguards (depending on which faction I'm currently playing on). I don't need aircraft to do it. But aircraft can do it just as well, regardless of faction. You are the one claiming air is needed to clear it out, not me. Once more, please stop twisting my words into something I never wrote. It is such a poor way to argue.

Right, I'm going to teach you every single one of my tricks online, in a forum. Especially since you are such a pleasure to argue with How about you, for once, do your own research? Like trying out the other factions stuff, or actually trying to explore the terrain for yourself. How do you think I got to know the routes?

You are losing tanks at ranges upwards of 500+m? There is your problem right there. That should only happen if you are AFK, or instagibbed. Last I checked, Prowlers (and especially not the GK) aren't really proficient at that. The only times I've lost tanks at those ranges, were against Vortex/Lancer squads utilizing teamwork, certainly not to Prowlers lol.

The only difference between the Enforcer accuracy at range and the same for the Gatekeeper is the velocity / drop. The Enforcer is actually more accurate than the Gatekeeper (when considering horizontal accuracy), while it has more drop. Note, the drop can actually be a boon in certain cases (but usually it is of course preferred to not have it). None of them are "pixel accurate" though, especially at 300+m.

The Prowler (while Anchored) has an easier time hitting enemies than when not Anchored, correct. However, it is also much easier to hit the Prowler while it is Anchored, since it is stationary. I have no problems hitting stationary vehicles at such ranges, do you?

Yes I mean peekaboo, but it wasn't limited to that aspect. Once more you are cherrypicking my comments and responding only to what suits you, and you plain ignore everything else. Pathetic.

Right, the only other alternative to playing peekaboo infront of the the enemy front line is suicide rushing? Seriously? Do you really expect a serious response to that claim? But once again, you also claimed it was impossible to go out flanking in the terrain we discussed earlier, so I shouldn't be surprised I guess. The Vanguards advantage lies in blitzkrieg?

Let me re-iterate the drawbacks for you:

1: Has nothing to do with peekaboo, and is NOT only limited to front-line suicide charges. It has very much to do with a flanking play-style, especially using Stealth (which the Vanguard excels at, maybe you should try it).
2) Is sometimes useful in peekaboo, but isn't limited to it. You aren't dependable on using peekaboo for the entirety of the tank duel, but to soften it up before it reaches you. This is a very valid tactic when engaging Vanguards in terrain which sports moderate cover (so the Vanguard can charge you whilst still using cover).
3) Peekaboo.
4) Has nothing to do with peekaboo, but rather an entire aspect of tanking.
5) Has nothing to do with peekaboo.

So, in conclusion, 1 ½ aspects had something to do with peekaboo, whereas the rest didn't. Furthermore, 1) and 4) and quintessential aspects of tanking.

Maybe if you stopped hugging your friendly zergers and started playing like an actual tanker you would get better results.

2 for the price of one? How exactly? Please explain this statement.

If the Prowler is equipped with AP/GK + Anchor, it is decent at long range (<300m), but only useful against noobs at longer ranges (>300m). However, it will lose a close-range battle against a Vanguard any day. I don't see how it being strong a both aspects at once, using the same loadout. That is just pure BS. Maybe stop trying to assault deployed Prowlers (that know you are there since you most likely charged straight at them right?) from the front. Even with the Vulcan, the Prowler still loses, and in such a case, it is much worse off in long-range battles.

The cannon having a long reload timer, is something you can take advantage of, and stay more mobile than the Prowler, without losing DPS time. You simply have more time to evaluate the terrain and aim for the next shot than the Prowler has, which makes it easier for the Vanguard to close the distance and fire on the move simultaneously. Yeah, the Prowler is faster than a Vanguard (approximately 15% at top speed, and gear skipping means the difference in acceleration shouldn't be much of an issue), but not that much faster. An example, if I'm using the Prowler and chasing a target, I feel like I have to use 3rd person for both firing and maneuvering during the chase, but using a Vanguard I can either use full 1st person (due to having longer time to set up the shot and look around)or simply use 1st person whilst shooting and then quickly changing to 3rd person. That is quite a significant difference. This is of course assuming non 100%-flat terrain (like at least 95% of ps2).

You think a long reload encourages sniping, while I take advantage of it to stay on the move more while still firing. I think you need to broaden your horizon a bit here tbh.

That entirely depends on how you approach the battles. I rarely sit on the front lines just slugging away, since that barely has an impact on the larger fights. If you REALLY want to have an impact on such fights, you have to move around and be able to engage targets that wouldn't die to the 123 zerglings on the front lines, like important Sundies or enemy "farmers". I can find a decent amount of 1v1's, even in the larger battles. It is just about not charging headlessly in without any regard for the situation, but rather using Stealth and finesse to choose your battles and engage on your own terms. It all comes down to play-style I guess.

Edit: Damned (casual ) forum will only allow posts with less than 20.000 characters. See next post for further replies.

Ah, so you ignored most of my points? Once again, nothing new here, since it doesn't suit your arguments. Sigh. Let's show the stats again then, shall we?

Even if we add in the HEAT for the Prowler, it is only ~3k more than the Titan HEAT (and the Titan-HEAT is only based on TR kills, so number is more likely only ~1k more in favor of the Prowler main cannons). So the Prowler isn't destroying more MBT's than the Vanguard at least.

VKPH you say? How convinient that I've actually listed those numbers earlier in my responses to you, but you just ignored it I guess? Nothing new here, just you ignoring stuff that doesn't suit you, as usual.

So tell me again how the P2-AP is having a 25-50% difference in kills? Oh wait, were you using KPH to evaluate AV weapons? Or did you actually just exaggerate your claim?

The Enforcer which is actually more effective than the GK? And AS effective as the P2-AP itself? And that is despite the fact that the P2-AP will have a higher chance of landing the killing blow (and thus scoring the V-kill) than the Enforcer/GK.

The main cannon of the Vanguard is destroying a bit less MBTs than the Prowler main cannons (which is to be expected, due to the numerous factors skewing the stats which I've previously mentioned), while the Vanguard secondaries are trumping the Prowler secondaries. Overall, the Vanguard destroys slightly more MBTs than the Prowler, despite you claiming it is underpowered? Furthermore, the Prowler is more effective when used 1/2, which a large portion of tanks are, which skews the stats.

Best performing tank? You still have yet to show that, except for HE . Feel free to start anytime.
Best performing Harasser? Let's see what the Oracle has to say:
VKPH:
- Gatekeeper: 20.26
- Vulcan: 24.77
- TR Halberd: 21.05

- Enforcer: 27.35
- Mjolnir: 27.93
- NC Halberd: 19.08

- Saron: 24.14
- Aphelion: 23.26
- VS Halberd: 19.04

As far as I can tell, only the TR Halberd is overperforming slightly. Is the TR Halberd OP? Or are the Gatekeepers still just suppressing the enemy? Who actually kills them then if all they do is suppress?

Also, take note: I never disagreed in that the GK (Prowler version) is too easy to use for the common pleb. I wouldn't mind seeing it changed like it was for the Harasser version. It wouldn't change much for me, as the long-range aspects of the weapon are non-threatening to me, and if they are shorter range, I would typically be more scared of a Halberd or Vulcan. Furthermore, I wouldn't equip a GK on my Prowler, due to my gunner being proficient with the Halberd (which is a far superior weapon in experienced hands).

Prowler most ridiculous tank PS2 has ever seen in its current state!

The Gatekeeper is INSANE and lockdown is still just as good as it was!

So now not only is the driver in a death machine but the gunner is a more accurate death machine!

Will be hit with the bat (again) soon though i would have thought!?

Just saw this.....

Sorry, but the Prowler is the best tank ATM.... UNBEATABLE without support from range.

If you cant Prowler..... I honestly dont know what to tell you.... You dont understand tanking maybe? OR (and this is my most likely option) your trolling!?

The only issue with the Gatekeeper is that it is too easy to use for average Joe's without much experience. Once a gunner gets experience (and furthermore when a crew as a whole gains experience) the Halberd is simply a better weapon (except for VERY long range, e.g. 350+m). Make the Gatekeeper harder to use, and it should be fine and dandy. Any decent vehicle user shouldn't be losing their vehicle at ranges longer than 300m though, unless they **** up. Lack of experience also plays a part here of course.

The Prowler is a better farming tank (e.g. killing zerglings who lack situational awareness and/or experience) from within a friendly zerg. That isn't how you affect large battles though, that is achieved by flanking maneuvers and utilizing Stealth, which isn't something the Prowler is better at than the other tanks.

Care to explain why it is the best?

Also, what is your definition of tanking? Sitting within a friendly zerg firing away surrounded by allies? Have fun having nearly 0 impact on larger fights (yeah, you are getting kills, but only kills the 3538749 other zerglings would've gotten if you werent there). If you want to be effective, you generally have to move away from the pack (zerg) and flank. That isn't an area where the Prowler is far superior.

Simple.... Render range accuracy and the MASSIVELY OP Gatekeeper. You add the accuracy of the main gun to that of the top gun and you have a tank that can land SILLY DPS from a distance that the other tanks cannot compete.

Sorry, it isn't just my opinion.... and a simple stat search will show you the same thing.

Doesn't look like you were doing to bad with it if this is you?

https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428026242697235169/killboard

haha this made me laugh....

What i was talking about is the OP not using the strength's of the prowler. i.e cheesing from render range like you should be.

I don't MBT anymore (only gunner if clan mate needs) its just to cheesy for me! Biggest tank i will pull is a lightening....