[Vehicle] State of MBT's?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Philipthedino, Jan 29, 2016.

  1. Reclaimer77

    WTF are you even talking about? "Going to the air" as Light Assault removes you from cover. It's one of the WORST ways to not get killed. Each and every time you use your jumpjets, you are putting yourself at risk. At risk of being spotted and swatted, at risk of being caught without cover. There might be lots of clueless dummies in PS2, true, but there are LOTS of people who are savvy enough to blast an LA out of the sky without a moments hesitation.

    As far as Drifters, where did I say anything about speed? I only mentioned time in the air, which (potentially) is longer than normal Jets. Which increases your exposure, which increases your chances of being seen and killed.

    Soon I'll have the Light Assault Directives complete on two characters and the Directives Carbines to match. You might play some LA, but I PLAY LA.
  2. Movoza

    All an interesting read.

    Now tell me why the Prowler is the best performing tank in nearly every aspect if it is this bad.
  3. Mezinov

    You said it here.
    Where you both referenced speed of motion, and time of exposure.

    One might say you are suffering from bias, or specifically confirmation bias, because you spend so much time on one side of the equation then.

    It sounds to me like you play your Light Assault very different from myself. Using my jumpjets doesn't remove me from cover because I am not fighting on the line like a Heavy Assault. Generally speaking, the jumpjets get me to my cover because it gets me to the flank, or out of the enemies field or view, or to the sort of cover generally unique to Light Assautls - and that is height.

    A roof might be a wide open and flat space to the Light Assault, but to the trooper on the ground it is as good cover for the Light Assault as a big ole' rock is for them.

    [IMG]
  4. Reclaimer77

    Drifters are relatively slow compared to bullets and tank shells, yes. But what does this have to do with anything? My point was pretty clear: being in the air as Light Assault means exposing yourself. There's no debating this.

    Yes. I'm not one of these camping do-no-good LA's who just sit in a tree picking people off. Does nothing for me.

    I'm a "Kamikaze" LA player. I'm looking to drop C-4 on any vehicles I can find. While everyone else on my team is hanging back, I'm the guy throwing myself at that enemy Sundy in a desperate gamble to see if I can get two bricks to go off before I'm killed.

    MBT camping the spawn area? I'm the guy who will redeploy to a base miles away, grab a Flash , and go deal with him or die trying. Everyone else can go be a stat-padding coward, I'm down for making a difference.

    Control room full of Max's and Heavies? Here I come, flying through the door and getting that C-4 explosion off RIGHT as you kill me.

    The risks? High. The rewards? Rewarding.
  5. SuperTrooperWaterloo

    Its a lot more complex than simple infantry stats who die in less than a second from fully automatic small arms, mainly from one source. Same goes for single weapons. Furthermore MBT´s are much more cert related than anything else to get results.
    Thats why i dont trust stats for anything above infantry weapons.

    Do those stats know the difference between a 1/2 MBT with Basilisk and a fully certed 2/2MBT?
    Do those stats know MBT´s are operated by two separate people with two different weapons at the same time? Did both aim at the same target?
    Do those stats know the BR of all 4 pilots&gunners?
    Do those stats know if the vehicle kill was a flash or a MBT?
    Do those stats know the total amount of damage received from a single source?

    In a MMOFPS with 200 people in one hex i can tell you by pure logic that something powerful as tank shells get more last hits(!=100% damage done) the more bullets you can spread, considering the huge amount of other possible damage sources and the size of the target(s).



    Try more than a sentence for a whole valid text with an actual argument or to refute something and { I } might give a proper answer.
  6. Vaphell

    Onus is on you to prove relevancy and quantify it. Over thousands of kills all these possible factors should even out, because all these scenarios should happen both ways in more or less equal numbers. I don't think you want to claim here that all the pro-tankers are rolling in prowlers and that the TR are somehow pouring significantly more certs into their skillcharriots than the rest and know how to focus fire. Extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence.

    No matter how you slice it, a quick trip to the oracle of death shows that in the last month the biggest threat to vans and mags was prowler which enjoys best performers in both primaries and secondaries: AP + GK being near the top and that's with potent TR harassers competing hard for kills. Hell, you can even find prowler HEAT down the list.

    And even if the numbers are a bit too rosy than reality, you will be really hard pressed to prove that a tank that tops pretty much every MBT chart there is, is somehow the worst of 3 and literally so bad that you can't see a dozen of them on any given ridge.... It's a flat out laughable claim.
    • Up x 2
  7. Nintyuk

    Vanguards still the best anti armour glass cannons in the game. Magriders still the only tanks that can get anywhere involved in base fights and prowlers have only improved in their jack of all trades secondaries.
    So in short:
    • Vanguards are still really niche and people who don't realise that get angry on the forums at everything but the tank.
    • Magriders still shell bases from the side of cliffs and zoidberg outta their if anything big shows up
    • Prowlers got a toy that makes them even better at shelling things from the next hex
  8. SuperTrooperWaterloo

    Explanation is above but you didnt mention that. You still cant tell me how one digit represents 4 people and 4 weapons. And thats actually your onus to proof because im questioning the way its calculated with all involed factors and not only the result.

    Would only be the case if the MBT´s would be the same. Theyre not. You can only sort something out here if the reason is the same.

    Where did i every say something like that? Dont try it that way.
    High end Infantry competition(HA) only needs nanoweave armor for body shots(1211 certs) and some cheap weapon attachments. Beginner weapon is good enough. Nothing else gives an advantage. MBT´s need 5000+, every MBT, like i said.
    The skillcap is related to the aiming, it doesnt matter if you shoot one year with P2-120-AP or Supernova FPC, in the end you´ll know how much above you have to aim to hit your enemy. Its not like the P2-120-Ap has zero drop, you have to adjust it juts like every other AP weapon and you´ll get used to it.

    A quick trip to the oracle shows also that the Betelgeuse is by far on top of all small arm weapons since more than a year, nothing done yet, looks like it needs more than stats for game balance. Still...

    Same questions and explanation as i asked and said above... spam weapons for last hits.
    With the P2-120 HEAT you just shot in your own knee:
    What does it tell you if your godlike stats say that a HEAT weapon is in the top list of MBT killers? That the prowler is extremely OP or that the chart is just messed up with average players pulling the beginner MBT or bad certed ones?
    I bet its the second point here because i never saw someone having a killstreak with only BR 100 players in it or at least above 50%. Its always less skilled players and a few good ones. Those things make your stats and thats it. Its one thing to mow down a 1/2MBT-Basilisk - the average - but a completely different task to do that with an equal skilled crew against you.
    How does a tank column look on your server? Most of the MBT´s 1/2 with Basilisk i guess - there is your problem.


    "a bit rosy" - you only take those nonsese average stats whenever you like to and sell it as "naked truth" for every possible thing ingame without thinking or explaining anything. Just look at the harasser stats: #1 Death = Titan-AP.

    Considering your stats every prowlers just melts throught vanguards, even with their shield, and even if that doesnt reflect the reality at all. But suddenly the DPS machines themselves with the fastest possible bullet velocity and best damage cant kill the fastest ground vehicle ingame and have to give the crown to the Titan-AP.
    Thats just a bit number magic with the average calculation. Average playtime of all players ... did it match?... Reality looks different.


    I wont continue with this stat conversation since im the only one who ever wrote something ingame related wih experience and explained some real situations noone every denied.
  9. Vaphell

    what 1 number? You can look at the overall performance of the main cannon across the population which gives you the average driver, you look at the overall performance of the secondaries across the population which gives you the averaged gunner.

    Says who? If things are not the same then you can put them in black boxes and look at their outputs. 1 is not like the others.

    But unlike every other MBT the prowler main gets a near realtime feedback about his accuracy, due to the RoF, while on the opposite end of spectrum the vanguard has 1 attempt every 3+ seconds which makes prowler a tank easier to use offensively. Then there is the unquestionally easiest to use secondary, the skillkeeper. Want to compare it to let's say enforcer which is dead accurate at long ranges but only after you figure out which cloud in the sky you need to aim at?

    Prove that it's creates a significant difference because all I can see here is a weak hypothesis. Besides, if everybody is doing that (because why wouldn't they) then nobody is.
    Btw, shouldn't the Titan be the best thief given its high spike damage?

    First - the list is quite long and you'll find HEAT only after the usual suspects,
    second - there are plenty people who know their **** and want to aurax it for the directive,
    third - we are considering the platform here, not one specific cannon in isolation
    fourth - one could easily argue that prowler perks make the HEAT a perfectly serviceable, albeit suboptimal AV weapon. Start with the dps advantage, lose some of it and yet you are still in the AV game no problem.


    Lol.
    Hypothesis: the TR and the VS pull them on the cheap en masse because GK/vulcan and Saron/Aphelion? 2 factions worth of harassers for the NC, while the NC themselves don't bother with harassers as much because their guns suck donkey testes?
    Your turn.

    You so special, you smart. Nobody but you plays this game here and uses tanks. K.
  10. SuperTrooperWaterloo

    Ohhhh, thats suddenly a thing to influence stats? But this cant be for MBT´s or anything else? :)


    Another cheap escape and what i just said in the first place stays untouched.
  11. MasterOhh

    Yeah....... strongest armor and iWin shield is not exactly my definition of a glass cannon.
  12. Jake the Dog

    Vanguards aren't glass cannons... Throw some side armor/stealth on it.
    A magrider in the base deserves exactly what everyone is complaining about...
    Prowlers have a gimmick that is so easily countered that I laugh my *** off when i see them deployed against me in my other MBTs... (unless Im stuck in open terrain XP and even then...)

    Someone who says "Iwin shield" reguarding the vanguard does not have alot of experience in the MBTs...
  13. Shiaari

    Roll AP Vanguard
    ???
    Profit
  14. MasterOhh

    Really? Is that your only argument? It is a bit weak don't you think?
  15. Vaphell

    Unlike here, your idea of influence on stats was some generic, weak horsesh!t about BRs, certs, basilisks, which should be distributed equally unless there is a heavy bias. So big guy, is there a heavy pro-TR bias, seeing how the prowler is pathetic junk according to you? Are the masses wrong by pouring fat certs into weaksauce skillcharriots and making more than decent returns on them?

    Even among BR100+ who have everything decked out, the difference in performance is real across the board.


    Please share the theory that would explain the following:
    given that there is a soft cap on how much vehicles can be pulled because of the resource regen, there is a degree of competition for a capped pool of kills.
    Assuming the hypothesis of deliberate killstealing that inflates prowlers is true (which it is not), how is it possible that the TR harassers, from which the prowlers steal, don't look like suffering, given they top the charts as well? What is the transmission mechanism that could explain differences in performance between the prowler and 2 other MBTs while being under more competitive pressure than them?

    Could it be that the prowler is simply an excellent platform thanks to its raw DPS advantage, general ease of use in most scenarios, double barrel (much lower chance of overkills ergo less dmg going to waste) and straightforward secondaries and that it's you who is dead wrong?

    nuh-uh.
  16. Sebastien

    y-you too
  17. SuperTrooperWaterloo

    The lowest accuracy but the most kills should tell you something.

    Won´t continue a discussion with you.
    1. You get personal.
    2.:
    Not a single experienced MBT driver or gunner would ever care about overkill or wasted damage if you hit or kill the target, you mention that now the second time as if it is that important. Did you ever had a MBT showdown? Because you don´t fu**ing care about how much damage you´ll waste with your shots, you´ll be glad youre alive and able to repair your MBT before you can move on. Dead is dead.


    But before:

    Please describe those "most scenarios" out of all possible situations MBT´s can get into. Im eager to hear them.
  18. Jake the Dog

    lol, I'm not the one having trouble killing vanguards.

    By "Iwin" I would instinctively believe that you lose everytime of course.
  19. Slandebande

    I've been away from Forumside for a while. I'm curious as to what the stats say, and I assume you have a link to the stats somewhere given your statement. Care to share it?
  20. Slandebande

    The Prowler is significantly stronger than the other two MBTs when used un-certed by beginners. Furthermore, the Prowler is the tank that is the best suited for farming 1/2. Additionally, the Prowler is (obviously) the best tank used for "farming noobs" for a variety of reasons. All these aspects skew the stats significantly, and should be accounted for.

    The Gatekeeper incidently fits the long-range aspect of the Prowler the most, and for once, the Prowler drivers have an incentive to actually take a gunner for their long-range schenanigans. Both the Prowler main cannon, and the GK now are better at long-range "farming", but not fighting other MBT's in duels. There aren't many situations where I would take a GK over my Halberd for my Prowler for a direct tank duel. I of course have a competent gunner to take advantage of the Halberd, most Prowler drivers don't, which again skews the stats towards the weapon that is easier to use. In the hand of a skilled gunner, the Halberd is far more devastating, and can be used for advanced combat tactics. Does that mean the GK is a better weapon than the Halberd? Depends on WHO you give the weapon to.

    Does this have much to do with the balance in power between the different MBT's? When it comes to how well they farm certs, sure. But not neccessarily how they perform against one another in heated duels. It mostly comes down to differences in how the tanks are used, and what their specialties are. If I want to have an impact on large battles, I won't be choosing a Prowler, since the long-range specialization wouldn't accomplish much (note, I'm not saying you won't get kills! I'm saying you are most likely getting kills the 5-25 other Prowlers next to you would get instead if you weren't around).

    Do I think the Prowler is the weakest tank? That really depends on what you want to use it for. For tank hunting (against experienced crews) I wouldn't choose the Prowler, that is for sure. If I feel like sitting still on a hill for 30minutes camping, then yes I would choose the Prowler. But that play-style is boring as **** (at least in my opinion). I rarely stick with the zerg for long.

    Do I think the GK is too strong? That again depends. It might be too easy to use, but I don't think it is too strong per se. Just up the skill-floor a bit perhaps.

    I wouldn't count the double-barrel as a bonus in every situation. Yes, the lesser chance of overkill CAN be useful, but there are many other aspects to it in the greater scheme of things. If you cannot think of them yourself, I can of course explain. But don't act like the only side-effect of the double-barrel is less overkill and therefore a definitive bonus.

    What do you base this statement on? Is Oracle still the go-to site to use? Sorry I've been away from Forumside for a while.