SOE If you nerf shotguns, nerf SMG too

Aim the head, bulletdrop, 2-3 secs steady, people sprinting around 80% of the time, yeah that takes much more skills than a guy running around with a shotty one shooting people to the chest or someone spraying his LMG or dual AI MAX weapons. That's why there's so few snipers around

LOL. Did you ever wonder why everyone is running around sprinting/bunny hopping constantly? It's because they don't want to be sniped when they take a brief moment to survey their surroundings.

Really? LMGs? You can trash talk Shotguns and NC AI MAXs plenty, because they're ******** just like Snipers. But LMGs? You must be terrible.

PS1 had a horrible TTK

You must be playing a different game to me. Snipers are far less common then shotgunners, lolpodders, Pheonix heavys, Light Assaults etc...

Snipers in this game are lack luster at best. I can run towards a heavily defended enemy base and the last thing im worried about is snipers. If they get a body shot i can duck behind cover with full health and weight for shields. Then run again. What kills me is Shotguns or tank rounds. Not snipers.

I don't want to add anything to this thread except this for lulz. You're a funny guy Nav, keep up the good work!

Im not trash talking LMG, im saying how easy it is to use autos in comparison. And I snipe moving targets btw I'm quite a good shot

Yeah, we are having a wildly different experience. Whenever I poke my head out into field combat of any sort, I usually die to snipers. Frequently with more than 1 on my deathsheet. Admittedly, I'm pretty good at hiding from tanks, but then again I can see them and my attention goes towards them so snipers are just shooting me. LoLpodders are an extreme rarity for me to encounter. It's usually Scythes and it's at most once in a 12 hour period. Again, since I avoid field combat because I'm tired of being sniped, they probably have a harder time of finding me. I will say, Tanks have been frustratingly overpowered against infantry in the past, but right now, at this exact moment, the only thing that needs to be done is a removal of HE and we'd be fantastic!

Okay. I don't consider using LMGs easy at all due to Shotguns and SMGs (and NC AI MAXs) being in the game. Half of the time even with perfect marksmenship, I'm simply killed before I kill the opponent.

Saying you snipe moving targets only adds validity to my point of why everyone is running around and trying to fly like a freshly decapitated chicken. I find engaging in combat with snipers extremely unfun. Even when they're on my team.

Situation:
I and one or two other people square off with conventional weapons.
I manage to effectively dispatch the first target and begin to assault the second one, when he suddenly dies from an ally I didn't know I had and an enemy he didn't know he was fighting.
This isn't fun to me.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but I see SMGs popular with Snipers. And Infs, designed to carry the weaponry most lethal in open engagements, now wants to be more than just viable in CQC, because, I guess, switching classes at a terminal is too much work? Well, I use Shotguns most of the time, and if I am stuck in an open quarters engagement, I get my rear to a terminal.

As a shotgun lover, I fully realize that in open engagements, I have the lethal ability of a chicken. But when I go indoors, things change. Conversely, Infiltrators not only can snipe with one shot lol kills, but now you are arguing that they should be on par with Shot gun users via nerfs from SOE in CQC. Wrong. So Wrong.

Shotguns do not ignore current weapon balance. That is your delusion. They are all or nothing weapons, designed for short burst, skilled suppression of enemy in CQ engagements. They're worthless outside of CQ (unless you get slug which I don't use) AND, if I miss with my shells, I am dead. There's your balance you conveniently left out of the debate.

The whining here would see a substantial drop if people would learn how to hold back the tears and stop sucking so much while in the game.

Why? SOE doesn't rely on stats for nerfs, unless the stat is the whining and crying from players. It's why they simultaneously broke and nerfed armor in one convenient ***k-date (not really an update to me). Overuse of AV Turrets, rocking motion making it harder to hit with rounds, and nerfing the splash damage have turned armor into something of a joke today.

Now people are complaining about shotguns, when, shotguns are doing exactly what they should be doing. And it's not like the whiners are trying them out, no, it's just easier to come here to complain like a daycare full of babies with soiled diapers.

I wish the login screen for this game had a whiner filter. The player base would immediately see an improvement.

ANYONE can use a SMG. It's a short range weapon designed for any class. The only reason infiltrators use them is because they don't have access to shotguns but that's another debate entirely and has zero to do with shotgun power. Sniper rifles only kill on head shots and you have sway to deal with as well as bullet drop and a rate of fire that's worse then a shotgun. You can't compare a shotguns body shot to a sniper head shot. One requires patience, timing, experience and skill the other requires bodyshot BAM.

All weapons at medium range are balanced against each other. There are none that stand out. The vast majority are sidegrades. The same applies to sniper rifles and other long range weapons. Both have close to the same dps.

SMG's and Shotguns are both short range weapons and the same rules should apply to them. Both with simalar damage per second, both with strengths and weaknesses and both only good at short range. Currently the shortgun ignores 2 of them rules by a massive margin. By 200% to be exact.

The whole if you miss the first shot your dead is a lie. If your facing any other weapon then a shotgun your not dead if you miss once. You have enough time for a second shot or 2 because a shotguns rof is fairly high.

Strafing while keeping good accuracy is skill....Sorry if u suck at doing something so simple according to you.

As for SMG's needing a nerf?...No.....SMG's don't insta kill you like shotguns do or kill u asap.

I love the SMG and it is a very good hipfire gun but I can still take on smg's with my LMG.......something that I can't say about the shotgun which kills me ASAP.

They cannot nerf the damage on pump shotguns..
If it took more than 1 shot to kill someone, why use a pump, just use the auto-shotgun..

They only nerf you can expect to hit the pump is a nerf to the ROF.
Right now the ROF difference between pump and semi auto is not worth choosing the semi-auto..

I think this was done on purpose, gives the early adopters OP weapon as usual, and leaves SOE something to nerf...

Any weapon in the game with a TTK below 1s is easier then a bolt action sniper in this game. Hands down, period.
Now multiply that difficulty by 2 if the target is moving, and multiply it by 10 if the target is moving and you are going for a headshot. If anything with nanoweve 3+ negating the 1hko on headshot even on strongest bolt action, and the fact medics can just dance around while rezzing... it makes sniping lackluster.
If anything I would make the medic gun and repair gun self root the player. Keep in mind with TTKs as low as they are in this game, I was actually amazed and beside myself that the strongest bolt actions did not 1kho on any upper torso hit, especially with all the medics running around, easy and quick spawning, as well as IA and thats not even mentioning the moronic spawn protection invul that now exists. Even mediocre pump actions users have quite the potential in game to get 3-4 kills before dieing, where even the best snipers will get 1 in the same timeframe, even if they dont die those 3-4 kills mean more because thats less enemies advancing for a few seconds where as a sniper can actually promote an enemy advance

In order of difficulty for small arms (top being hardest to master, bottom being easiest)

1. Headshotting moving target with bolt action sniper at 100m+
2. Killing any target at any range with scout rifle
3. Headshotting moving target with bolt action sniper at sub 100m
4. Headshotting moving target with semi auto sniper
5. Battle rifle / Lasher kill
6. Knife kill
7. Beamer kill
8. Manticore/ Tx2 kill
10. Headshotting still target at 200m+ (on first shot)
11. Rebel kill
12. Tx1 pocket smg kill
13. Magshot kill
14. SMG kill / AR kill
15. Carbine kill
16. LMG/ MCG kill
17. Semi auto shotty kill
18. Auto shotty kill
19. Pump action shotty kill


let the flames commence

The original shorguns were fine - only the new pump action shotgun are too much.

You put knife kills anywhere other than #1. You're clearly a sniper.

They can if they read the Roadmap, and saw that the highest rated suggestion was to make the pump shotguns have a tighter grouping so they can be used at longer range, without increasing the amount of damage they do. With that suggestion, there was a TRADEOFF, which was the point of sidegrades. You sacrificed fire rate for accuracy, which is one of the main balancing factors of every other weapon class in the game.

If you think knife kills are harder then headshotting a moving target with a bolt action, then you are a clear cut case against Darwinism, showing survivability of the ignorant

Hey Hey Hey...

Lets not bicker or argue about who killed who?

It depends on the knife kill. If the target stands there doing nothing for 2 hits then yeah a sniper shots harder but trying to get a knife kill on a moving target who's trying to gun you down is far from easy.

I'm just saying when you win a gunfight with a knife, it seems more impressive than winning a gun fight from 300m away when they can't see you.

Actually it had great TTK that made tactic just as important as skill. And it helped accommodate the extra lag from players/server when dealing with an MMO-FPS environment. PS1 is far superior to PS2 in every aspect but "graphics." As if those matter. I'd trade my PS2 graphics for PS1 graphics if I got better performance.