[Radical Suggestion] Nerf Skyknightside

[Disclaimer : first off, this thread will be directed towards the AA problem, the broken air combat and why it's terrible to get into and some other stuff that make ESFs broken.

To the dear skyknights, if you have something against what I'm going to say, then at least have an argument and post a reason on why is a change a bad idea/why is something balanced instead of acting like ground plebs are the antichrist of the game and need to L2P]

It's a long thread, so if you want to understand my post, READ IT COMPLETELY. It'll help if you want to debate my points/suggestions. I won't offend/zealously defend my claims/suggestions, and I'd like if this discussion went peacefully]

So to start it off, I think air is in a decent position. Valkyries are small attack transports that are useful as throw-away transports and as something that you use when you want to stat-pad by getting on top of a mountain and snipe, but also has some squad capabilities too. Overall, not too fond of it, but it's fun to use and could use some buffing by adding more utility instead of being a poor man's galaxy.

Galaxies are fine. Amazing in organized squads and good for dropping a good chunk of people on the roof, but it's not very useful for anything else. Has massive health, but because it only does one thing well, it doesn't cause big issues unless it's in a small fight.

Liberators are also fine. They do a select few roles based on loadout, and if the driver and/or gunner aren't skilled enough, a single ESF can dispatch a lib easily. It's a big target, so if there are a few AV sources, they can hit the lib a few times and potentially destroy it. Overall, high risk but high reward, high skill floor and ceiling and not very useful in big fights, but farms like crazy in small ones. Can be very annoying to deal with and causes a lot of damage if there aren't any AA sources. The main problem with the Liberator isn't with the liberator itself, but that AA is terribad and that when there are no counters to it, it can farm with impunity.


And then there's the ESF, the only thing in the game that's IMHO broken OP. Can farm absolutely anything in any fight as long as there aren't 8+ people with AA nearby, wrecks anything be it in the sky or on the ground and UNLESS you pull an ESF and if you're equally skilled and beat him or snipe him with a lucky tank round/dumbfire, you'll never kill them. If there's no AA, it farms non-stop and it can't be eliminated in any possible way. They can change fights simply by killing 5+ players in a single strafe, and much more depending on how long it farms. They simply afterburner away if you start to deal damage to them, and unless you have 4 AA sources on a single target you won't do much because of how useless AA is.

Now, the current state of the ESF is a bit skewed. There are to me 3 massive issues that have caused ESFs to be what they are :

1. The OP skillpods.
2. The broken, inaccessible, dull clunkiness that's A2A combat.
3. The uselessness of AA.

1. The OP skillpods

The first issue with ESFs are the broken state of lolpods.

When you do A2G, you have the option to use AI noseguns. They are effective against infantry only (but can finish off an almost dead vehicle), require accuracy and adjustments to aim and leave you exposed during your attack, while also giving up any meaningful AA for your ESF, but it's very useful if you know that there will be no enemy ESF presence in the area. Really, the only thing I'd change here is to buff Banshees, since they've been overnerfed and I escape death from them most of the time.

Or you can use lolpods which are flat-out better in every way, they're much easier to use, don't require nearly as much skill to use effectively, gigantic splash damage which is so huge I can shoot on the ground 10m away from someone and I'd still kill him and most of all I don't need to sacrifice my nosegun in order to farm on top of semi-decent AV capability. If you're good enough, you can still kill enemy ESFs in the area unless someone of a similar/same/better skill level runs in an AA loadout.

There's too much versatility and too much efficiency here. The only reason why I might use AI noseguns over lolpods is that I get better anti-MAX, but everything else lolpods do better for less effort and more reward and less trade-offs.

Either make them take skill (I've suggested that they should get a huge velocity nerf and inherit a % of the velocity from ESFs, so you need to waste afterburner fuel/go really fast/divebomb hard into enemy lines in order to actually hit your target while exposing yourself to potential AA, so escaping is trickier and you'll be damaged more) or simply reduce the effectiveness (Halving the radius would do the trick, but I'd be against this because they'd be a lame weapon). After all, there shouldn't be a perfect weapon in this game.

2. The broken, inaccessible, dull clunkiness that's A2A combat

A2A combat is where the game's the weakest. It's a perfect example on how NOT to do combat, because it feels awkward, only VTOL tactics are useful while everything else is cool to pull off but basically worthless, has little depth and you only need to pour in a ton of time in order to grasp it and get good with it.

There are almost no tactics that are actually relevant. Only thing that matters for tactics is who has better VTOL tactics and who has a drop on who (Which is often irrelevant because in the end better aim, dodging and fire suppression determine who wins).

I'd like a change for this. Add more depth (Being able to hide in clouds, high altitude/low altitude fighting, more tactics that are relevant instead of defying gravity with Reverse Maneuver, adding weapons for long range engagements, special frames for high altitude/low altitude, ES abilities and overall more toys to play with like EMPing sysems for a few seconds so enemy planes spin uncontrollably if they fly really fast, short-length cloak that can replace afterburners which is easily visible to ground targets, but can be hardly seen by fast moving ESFs, omniburner for Scythes, a reflective shield for Reavers which reflects bullets back at half the velocity...)

If A2A combat was more creative, unique, fun and overall easier to get into and if aim and maneuvers mattered less we'd see people actually trying air vehicles and use them from time to time instead of staying away from them.

Also, add more noob friendly weapons (Like smart noseguns that have very limited tracking on enemy ESFs, but they have lower DPS than ordinary noseguns) and make the whole system more noob friendly, so at least they don't get instantly wrecked by skyknigts, so skill still matters, but you ain't a pseudo god if you face people less skilled than you.

3. The uselessness of AA

Let me present you the most ineffective, niche and overall useless weapons that are currently in the game. Every single AA weapon has got very little power, very little reliable range (Unless you call hitting 1 or 2 out of 10 flak shells at 150m reliable range) and non-existent versatility.

I have used all AA, from G2A lockons to dual bursters to the Skyguard, but they're all ineffective and lack versatility and range. Simply, they are useless at attacking infantry and vehicles alike while being somewhat OK at AA duty and abysmal at actually killing air vehicles.

My main problem with AA is that there's no middle ground.

Let me explain, when you look at infantry weapons, you see that every single one is targeted at a specific skill demographic. Starter weapons are meant to attract new/low skill players due to their ease of use, but they're still very powerful in the hands of a vet. High skill floor/ceiling weapons exist for vets who will find this guns hard to use at first, but as they spend more time with them they become excellent with them and provide great power/versatility in the right hands.
But there's also a middle ground for average/experienced players, with a decent skill floor and ceiling and which serve a purpose to be very effective while not requiring amazing skills.

There's nothing like that middle ground for AA. You either use easy to use but painfully inefficient AA or the super effective but insanely hard to use dumbfires or tank shells. For the majority, AA isn't worth it, it provides little benefit while effectively shooting yourself in the foot.

Either :

1. Make them less specialist and more generalist, more versatility against infantry and light armor.

2. Make them actual killers against air.

3. Add new direct damage weapons that take skill to use but deal a lot of damage and have potential to kill ESFs quickly while it can also kill other air if left unchecked.

4. All of the mentioned above.


Before closing this up, I'd like to address an argument for group AA. I think that air shouldn't be a special snowflake and that there should be fights where air isn't viable in the same way that infantry and tanks aren't viable once their counters start massing. It makes fights more dynamic and forces you to play something else instead of constantly being an air pilot the same way infantry have to tank/pilot and tankers have to infantry/pilot once in a while.

Thanks for making it this far! What do you think about this topic?

First off thank you for a well thought out and reasoned argument, not just some BS whining thread that is not even comprehensible.

I agree with much of what you said but not all of it. I think revamping the entire air game as suggested in 2 would be great but never going to happen.

in #1 I wont say anything as I get killed by banshees more than LOLpods but your ideas for the lolpods seems reasonable

your intro and assessment of air vehicles is decent, though I think valkyrie could use some attention, it doesn't have much of a niche. I also dont think ESFs are quite as broken or OP as you feel they are, but not going to focus on this either.

#3 is what i am going to focus on. AA

The real issue of the AA system is that it was put in place when skill levels were very low and we had a completely different resource system. With modern skill levels of aircraft and AA, the system would be fine if we still had the old resource system.

Back in the day, we had acquisition timers and slower resource gain of 3 resources not 1. With modern system, people never have to do anything but their own little niche, chain pull libs and ESFs and tanks or whatever, if you had a bad streak, wait at warpgate 2 mins, go get a drink, pull again. This makes the game really stale for those players because there is so much to do in this game that they are missing, I think this has majorly contributed to the population loss of PS2.

So where does AA fit into this? less lethal AA is good when there are less aircraft in the air, and when you do kill one, it takes 5-10 mins before they can come back, not 30 secs. It is very disappointing when you kill an ace pilot or master tanker, only to have them be back in less than a minute. it should feel like an achievement when you take down a gunship or fighter or MBT. imagine being a soldier on a battlefield who manages to blow up a strafing fighter, you would feel fantastic.

The best option is to revert to the old resource system, or put in timers again, or finish the current system, it was supposed to be a 3 part change, we only got first part, though I doubt anyone at DBG even remembers what the system was supposed to be now. Same with directive and mission systems.

Your AA ideas can work too, but you have to be very careful to not make them too powerful. I think the root problem of AA in video games is that in RL air combat takes place super high up and even ground attack is done from high altitude. No games wants to have that high of a ceiling though. also RL is not balanced and it is very high risk high reward, your billion $ fight can be blown up by a guy with a RPG or stinger missle you gave them when they were your friends 20 years ago, but aircraft can also wreck entire cities and armour columns.

For more lethality, i would suggest these changes:

1. Spear turrets get higher projectile velocity and much better angles, also damage could be change so they 1 shot ESFs, currently 80-90%. also increase health of all turrets, or give them directional shields.

2. infantry AA lock ons get some attachments that can decrease lock time, or increase lock range, missle path should be adjusted so they don't smack into the ground so often, damage should be adjusted, currently they do about 40-45% damage to ESFs, I think they should do 51%, fire suppress can still save you if you supress between two missle hits, but not after 2, but flares are better option, this also makes teams of 2 heavies working together more effective, and doesnt require 3rd person to do enough damage.

3. ranger needs major changes, it sucks. i would make it have much higher damage but shoot much slower but be fairly accurate with better velocity.

4. all AA guns could be made slightly more accurate

5. new Lightning gun that has high velocity and high damage, maybe flak shells. thinking like a ww2 flak88, used to kill aircraft and decent against light armor. lower damage than normal guns but bonus against aircraft, could also be used as long range sniper cannon but not great in close range. long reloads maybe. 90% ish damage to ESFs, not 1 shot, but puts them on fire or kills if they have much damage.

6. Another lighting gun that is basically a buffed Walker, like dps of 1.6 walkers, not as good as a dual walker sundy, as they requires 2 people but very easy to use like walker.

6. i also wouldnt be opposed to SAMs on top of tanks or sundies or harassers. I assume these would be called the Texas(walker, texas, ranger lol) slightly better than heavy's SAMs, like 125% damage, cant 1 shot esfs, but 2 on sundy could. Or maybe able to keep lock and has 4 shots per clip but like 1 sec chamber time. in which case they should do less damage than heavy lock ons. but could kill esfs with 3-4 missles. Perhaps have options to make them function as anhilator with no dumbfire and lock on anything, or like ESSAM with dumbfire but only AA locking

You could also put a large SAM on a lightning that does like 85% damage to esfs, very fast and bad turning so could be dodged and shot.

Finally I've decided to login and make a comment and i'm no doubt gonna get ignored because it's not part of the echo chamber!

Air is perfectly fine and the only issue is everyone else in this god damn game just sits around going "Eh someone else will take care of it!" No one does and then at the end of the day the air kills them, they cry out to nerf air and then the cycle continues

I drive a tiny little harasser with a friend, and if we see aircraft we just spawn a new one with a walker and i go HA with the swarm. We find a nice location and we whale on the aircraft which 9x out of 10 will completely clear the sky! Only a liberator can outdamage us and that only happens if we screw up and let the damn thing hit us! And if the air continues to dominate the sky, that's because the AA is being taken out by the ground forces, making it perfect for aircraft do provide ground support! So that's on the enemy team for being smart and clearing out AA for liberators and ESFs

TL;DR Air is not overpowered, it's just that no one looks up and shoots at the damn things

You're using this term wrong. Skyknights are ESF pilots that use the default nosegun and afterburners. What you're whinging about is what we collectively refer to as 'ground pounders'. And lets be very clear on this... this is a whinge post and none of what you said is accurate.

One skyguard who can actually lead half-a-damn will be enough deterrence for 3-4 ESF.

Rocketpods means no afterburner. No afterburner means slow ESF. Slow ESF means dead ESF.

So, just because you're bad at it... it means it's dull and broken? I find A2A combat quite exhilarating and enjoyable the way it is. Would you rather a BF3 jet style combat of 30 minutes of looping and 0.5 seconds of shooting? I know I didn't/don't.

It's not useless. The problem with AA is peoples expectations. They expect that the sky is going to be filled with targets and they'll just single handedly mow them all down. Well guess what, that's not how these things work. As soon as a good ESF pilot sees a source of AA they leave the fight BECAUSE it's so strong unless there's like 10 friendly ESF in the sky... in which case you SHOULD be getting wrecked.

Afterburners are passive now so you can take rocketpods and afterburn away.

I disagree that these are OP. My only beef with rocketpods is the Dual Photon and Breaker Rockets mechanics should be swapped. That's just due to the hard alpha hitting damage of the Photons infringes on the NC trait of high alpha damage. But other than that, I don't believe they are as useful as people claim they are.

Yes you can wrack up kill streaks with them. I've done it myself. I've gotten over 20 kills in a row within minutes and usually only end the streak because of a tree (trees are OP) or some other obstacle. Pods are much like the Viper Cannon on the Lightning. I can do VERY similar things with both weapons. The difference is the ESF can do it from angles my lightning can't. However my ESF isn't as tanky as my lightning, nor can it hide in the same manner.

From my personal experince. They equal out pretty well.

I agree that this is an issue. I have NEVER had ANYONE explain to me why the ESF should be UNIQUE in the fact that it is the MOST complex vehicle in the game. It would be akin to a button combination gives non-LA infantry a weird flighty icarus-like jump jet to flank other infantry with.

All vehicles are pretty simple and basic to operate. They operate very similarly to infantry. W to go forward, S to stop and go back, space to go up, * (I use C, I'm not sure if that's default) to go down, shift to go faster, and A and D to go left and right. Pretty easy. The Flash, Lightning, Harasser, MBTs, ANT, Valk, Lib, and Gal all use the basic principle.

The only outliers are the Magrider which uses the infantry mouse look to turn and A and D to strafe (still simple), and the Valk has a slightly higher vertical thrust (hey sort of like a LA). Even air is pretty easy to use. Any newbie can jump into a Lib or Gal and figure it out within minutes. The Valk may require a little bit of familiarity due to its weird agility.

But the ESF? Not minutes. Not Hours. But Days of practice before you're competent enough for A2A. I mean it takes a few minutes to an hour to figure out how to A2G in a rudimentary way. But the moment someone else in a ESF shows up. You die. Simple as that. There's no escape. No defense. You're dead faster than clicking start in Dark Souls.

This doesn't happen when you're in a MBT and another MBT shows up. You've got options, you've got a fair shake. You might even survive against a superior opponent. And you know what? Flying a Lib, Valk, or Gal doesn't even prepare you for ESF combat. Not even close. Nothing in the game short of a few hours of VR and possibly a tutor. Otherwise its many many failed attempts getting shot down over and over before you get it.

Newbie weapons, auto tracking weapons, sadly are not the answer. Whenever you give a newbie an easier to use weapon, you give it to vets as well. Perpetuating the cycle. Its quite simple. Make the ESF function like a faster Lib or Gal. It can still hover, it can still do what its designed to do. But it doesn't do any buggy physics defying stuff.

Vets are always going to trounce newbies with ESF to ESF combat. I know we can't fix that. But at least give Vets the same weaknesses as newbies. Right now, a vet can kill a newbie because of situational awareness and getting the jump. The same doesn't work for newbies who get the jump on a vet. Usually its some sort of crazy maneuver the moment the vet takes rear damage and the newbie is dead soon after.

If they can't do that, then the newbie has a chance of getting a kill, or at least causing a ton of damage forcing the withdrawal of the vet, rather than a crazy turn of events. Of course.. a newbie meeting a vet head on is in serious trouble.. as they should be.

Think of it like snipers. Vet snipers are deadly. Very deadly. But when they make a mistake.. even a newbie who lines up a shot and takes it, gets the kill. Sniping is another example of a do or die playstyle similar to how ESFs are in A2A. The difference is, the vet sniper can't do a matrix style movement and return fire.

AA is boring. Really boring. Unless there is air to fight. This is a simple fix. Make Skyguards do more damage to vehicles and more effective against infantry. Why not? AP rounds work against infantry. As do furies, gatekeepers, vulcans, enforcers, halberds, sarons, mjolnirs, and aphelions. If pulling a Skyguard wasn't ineffectual versus verhicles and infantry, more would be inclined to use them.

Then you have HE/HEAT which as bad as they are.. still work against vehicles. Better than Skyguards do.

So the answer is to increase the Skyguard's versatility.

Of course with such increased power means they need a slight nerf in their.. ability to strike aircraft. Mainly in precision. Hitting hovering ESFs should be utterly devastating. But hitting evading ESFs shouldn't be, I mean if they are evading, they aren't attacking. And with increased ability to deal damage to more targets, there should be more skill involved.

Basically decrease CoF, increase damage, increase RoF or velocity of the Skyguard, but remove or reduce the range of the flak. Requires more skill to hit with, but does more damage when you do.

As for other AA sources... they are fine.

Bursters - MAXes can visit terminals to swap weapons when no air is present.
ES Lockons - Really effective as dumbfire missiles
NS Lockons - Lockon everything point at ground when air goes away
Base Turrets - Do quite a bit of damage and kinda tough for air to kill on their own unless they zerg it.
Walkers - Do pretty well.
Rangers - Delete these and refund the certs. Seriously, these things are playing with our emotions.



Edit-
One thing I want to point out. I'd like to see the second issue fixed. Then my opinion on rocketpods MIGHT change. They might actually become super prevelent if newbies and average players had more access to the skies.

But because they don't. These weapons might actually be under represented, for that I can admit. But I'm still not entirely convinced. I don't want to see these nerfed when they might not need to be. And this is because the opposite might Also happen. More people in the skies might make it more dangerous to use, requiring AB pods or A2A wing weaponry instead.

One step at a time. Lets get ESFs more accessible before nerfing anything like its weapons.

(1) Better Aim, (2) better Dodge, and (3) better use of PS2 K-Style GunZ are the dominant skills to win throughout PS2. It's not just ESFs.

PS2 rewards Accuracy Skill too much across much of the game. It (1) trivializes the importance of other factors like Strategy and Setup, (2) limits what types of players can perform even moderately at the game or what Units they can use, and (3) messes with the ability to balance Units/Weapons/etc. in the game (making items weak when used by some, yet OP in he hands of others).

There are many ways to reduce the emphasis on Accuracy, but much of the vocal playerbase (and outperformers in the game) have high Accuracy Skill and don't want it changed, and the Devs seem to be believers of a system based on high rewards for accuracy.

Have you considered that he is "bad" at it since it would take hours upon hours of mastering some eldritch maneuvers that are harder to learn/pull off than a decent combo in a fighting game? And even if you manage to learn it, A2A combat has many times less depth than any fighting game.
Why Would i mention fighting games? Because of the hours i spent on learning multiple combos across 2-3 characters each one suitable for different situations, while in planetside, you spend just as much time on trying to learn a couple of seemingly physics defying maneuvers on a single ESF that you can use to defeat ANY "bad players" that are on your tail.


I realize i just have rambled without suggesting a solution, but i think a button to toggle hovering instead of it being automatic would be nice.

Yes there are going to be scrubs that farm with lolpods and camp spawns with Liberators, I get that. But to say that AA is useless you must be doing something wrong, I do very well with my Burster Max against ESF's. And with the extended Mags you can easily give a Liberator something to think about.

One Max operator that knows what he or she is doing and someone in an AA turret can deter a LOT of aircraft...

The only real issue i see is the recoil on the ps4's skyguard due to minimum fov and the nature of the controller.

Libs having afterburner and valks not having it is also a debatable topic.

You died to an ESF. Relax, and respawn.

No free stuff here Mr. Bernie, you gotta earn your stripes.

I gotta agree. No one ever bloody shoots at the ESFs, it's not hard, and with LMGs you can actually clip them if you get enough in. Heavies often do not buy the anti air lockon for their faction even though it's probably the best all around launcher when it comes to versatility of being able to swat air, shoot maxes and shoot tanks with a small amount of damage loss from the starter.

Seriously, we've had so many of those that for once I'm not gonna bother readind it.
The solution is always the same and it works

Its "Stop whining on the forums and start shooting back"

Except I'm that one scrub who constantly gets into AA phalanx turrets and often pulls a burster MAX and shoots like crazy, and I end up not while my teammates do nothing.

So how can I do something actually good against air without involving any group effort, because I play on the worst factions on each server, or do I have to use team effort to do something considerable?

I'd be all for adding some new direct damage AA weapons, and I have a few ideas for some that could be mounted on Lightnings.

TR: 88mm Flak. Dumb fire explosive shells with proximity fuses, capable of doing damage somewhere between lockon and dumbfire rockets, probably on the lower end. Maybe it could be loaded in clips of 5 instead of each round being loaded individually? Reload between shells in the clip is short, reload between clips is a bit longer.

NC: Directed Burst AA. Fires a massive canister with a magnetic fuse. When the fuse is triggered, an explosive in the canister fires a large number of pellets forwards, like a shotgun. The more direct the hit, the more damage is dealt. A full hit does much more damage than the TR Flak, but the shells are loaded one at a time.

VS: Focus laser. Fires a continuous laser for a short period of time, uses overheat mechanic. Damage to a target increases exponentially (though a low exponent) based on how much time it is hit by it. If the laser breaks contact and comes into contact again in the same burst, its damage starts at base, rises to where it left off at a higher speed, and continues to rise from where it left off at normal speed. Limited effectiveness against armor, such as that found on the underside of a Galaxy, base damage drops off steadily with range, and the laser is highly visible.

All of these are slightly less effective against armored ground targets than Lightning HE in terms of maximum DPM. The NC and TR AA need direct hits to kill infantry, and the VS needs a moderate amount of contact time.

Another bad pilot? Or someone who is unable to read the battlefield without placing himself in harms way? "Reaver bait" we called these players back in PS1.

I drive skyguard often. I rarely die and I swat the flies and clear the skies. Hate tells and dedicated vengeance plays approach my game play.

My suggestion is to take a minute. Analyze the environment. The battlefield. Understand how to maximize your put put with your defensive positioning.

The air game is not broken.
The anti air game is not broken.
Player understanding the battlefield is broken.

Trees are PS2s form of divine intervention on behalf of Valkyrie pilots, who have absolutely no issues dodging trees. Trees are in fact, my best friends, as Hossin is absolutely murder for any ESF rookie who trys to follow me through the trees (Engagement radar hunters with heat seekers or decent nose guns can pelt me from altitude, but end up advertising to my friendly ESFs). If trees are giving you a problem, it is because I have hacked the continent using ValkShamanism and planted them in your way to use as Evasion aids.

I agree with you on most of the points about the Skyguard, but nerfing its precision would make it dramatically worse. What little precision it has is its only saving grace at attacking targets that are withdrawing or which have done passes on you (Particularly ESF pilots who launch and then go evasive). Libbies, in particular, would benefit hugely from a CoF change, as their pilots can generally decrease their target profiles with maneuvers. Decreasing the precision, even at only long range, would not fix the issue. The CoF should remain the same.

That however, affects the skyguards ground fighting abilities. The principal problem I run into with engaging infantry is that the CoF means I have a high miss probability, even at absurdly low ranges. When I do hit them, it generally takes two to three hits, meaning that infantry kills are not very forthcoming, and this means the skyguard is intensively vulnerable to rocket launchers, despite having 4 linked 20mm cannons with HEF shells and a low angle gun. Even engaging Phoenix missiles is a risky proposition. Funny, isn't it?

A solution to this, I believe, would be to slightly boost the damage of the Skyguard, but dramatically boost the ROF.
This would increase its performance at close range against light vehicles and infantry, but would not substantially affect its performance against aircraft at medium-long range, and medium armor and MBTs would still totally wreck the skyguard, which they rightfully should.

Also, I do agree that Rangers are largely clown cannons.

Edit: As a humorous aside, this is what happens when SPAA goes really, really wrong. This is a Russian made SPAA (Likely a ZSU-23-4) experiencing a fire control failure caused by over-heating (No one gets hurt). Note the tight groupings and rate of fire (Which in this instance is impressive, yet unsafe and not SOP). Also note that that is the entire belt of ammunition he's expending, and that what you're seeing is actually every 4th or 5th round. No comment on the gunners behavior.

Scroll to 0:50


Edit: I'm not suggesting that the skyguard have that RoF.

The esf is not broken. You try flying one and then tell me the skill floor ain't high. And libs being all skill? It's just certing the proper things maxing your sensitivity, and you can hunt down everything efficiently.

However, I am in favor of reducing their versatility vs ground targets in exchange for lower nanite cost and reduced vulnerability to ground AA sources. Shooting down aircraft is more fun anyway, I only run hornets because there are many more targets for them and to kill flak turrets and the pesky heavy assault that thinks he can challenge me with his rocket launcher. They are also good against libs, the new updated will hopefully make a2a lockons take that role.

So I'd like to see esf's have a more focused a2a role, while perhaps removing the lib afterburner or rebalancing the speed such that libs can't so easily participate in air fights. The real dps of esf's vs esf's among average pilots is so low compared to everything else it makes it hard to engage other esf's in large fights. This is why so many just ignore aircraft and go a2g, because it takes much less effort and skill, and is more rewarding in terms of kills.

It looks like most of the people - including myself - from last month's Air Threads gave up on the subject. Nerfs to Air are coming people. Hold onto your pantyhose.

Personally, I don't see the liberator as involving much skill.

I fly Valks. I respect ESF pilots, and share the skys with Gal drivers (And yes, you are not "flying" a gal, you are driving it.)

But I can't for the life of me muster much for Libbers.

My courtesy extends to picking libbers up when they bail out after dieing.

To date, I have never had to do this.

This should tell you all you need to know about why I don't respect them, and why I don't really fly them. No real sensation of risk.The maneuver model, coupled with extreme durability and high alpha damage capability, means you're basically flying a giant gravity defying titanium bathtub with a siege gun strapped to it.

Ask yourself, if you drive a Libbie.... when's the last time anything less than 3 skyguards or 2 ESFs made you afraid?