One possible solution to the AV-MANA Turret with out nerfing it to extinction

I don't see a point in arguing anymore after what you said.
Hint: Being invisible isn't being invulnerable. While not rendering on one players Client is technically %100 Invulnerability.

Actually the solution is simpler than all the actual thought in this thread. Simply sell an AV turret counter measure system for vehicles. SOE rakes in more money and follows in the footsteps of all the other upgrade, counter upgrade, anti counter upgrade, anti-pro-anti sodium calcium chloride game design. Done!

That's fine by me, it's not like you bothered answering any of my questions anyway, for example you've still not explained why it's unfair that tanks are hard coded to be invulnerable to the majority of infantry while it's unfair that they have one weapon where if they're smart enough they can merely be very hard to kill (much like how infiltrators can be hard to kill but not impossible).

The #1 killer of tanks is infantry, by a large margin. Being being invisible and thus invulnerable due to a buggy game is obviously different from having a tank with a lot of HP.

AV turrets beyond render distance are not hard to kill, they are unkillable. Big difference.

That you expect someone to be "situationally aware" of something that is invisible is interesting. That players should be forced to hide from one little guy 1000m away on a mountain instead of kill him is pretty stupid.

That a player is even capable of landing a shot as powerful as the AV Mana turret at 1000 (or even 500 ) meters with little to no difficulty is also stupid. In fact all laser guided weapons in the game should be changed.

Question:

Couldn't they just make the Engineer and the AV Turret render as a vehicle for the duration that said Engineer has his AV Turret deployed? If this were the case, the Engineer would render even if they jump off their turret after firing as a means to exploit the rendering system...and your more long range oriented Snipers would be capable of suppressing them because they would now render even at extreme ranges.

...or am I missing something here?

You are missing 3 things:

1) BASR don't OHK after 300 meters. Even if you were xXxMLGPRO360NOSCOPEHEADSHOTxXx and got a headshot by some miracle from 1000 meters, it would not kill the Engineer.

2)The AV Mana Turret does render after 300 meters, but not at all times. You can OHK it with a Halberd or MBT Cannon (Prowler needs 2 shots, which is near impossible). Then again, we are talking distances like 500-600 m or more (Basically Vehicle Render Distance. More than 1 km) where the AV Mana Turret is one pixel on your screen or doesn't render at all.

3) This game has become "Infantryside" a long time ago. The sheer amount of effectiveness and quantity of AV/AA spam is insane. AV Mana Turrets are the biggest issue regarding Vehicle/Infantry "Balance". It gives you Infantry Invulnerability and the possibility to take out vehicles without any range restrictions, no resource cost, cooldown or skill.

The only way to "balance" the AV Mana Turret is to make the projectile explode at 300 meters like the Phoenix. It's already doing too big of a damage (3 shotting MBTs) at a insane distance. It kills the whole Vehicle Gameplay. Think of it as Nanoweave Armor before the change.

1: I'm painfully aware of this, which is why I said suppress rather than eliminate. While we can't take them out in a single hit...we can, at the very least, make them take pause and reassess the situation. Either they stand there and die, or they stop manning their turret and go elsewhere.

2: Understandable. I'm used to shooting pixels from 1000m in Delta Force: Land Warrior...but that was with a weapon capable of killing even if it nailed you in the toe. I miss my Barret 50.cal...terribly so.

3: Agreed. I personally believe that this problem stems from the fact that the development team has to balance vehicles and aircraft around the potential volume that can occur within a single place at any given period of time, rather than what's realistically accurate for what they are supposed to be. This results in a watered down representation of what should be...vehicles and aircraft that are superior to ground based forces. I explain this better in the following link:

Auraxium Mining Outpost, Air oriented balance and resource system!

I want vehicles and aircraft to be superior to ground forces, a truly foreboding presence upon the battlefield. Sadly, this just isn't possible until they solve the situation where you can have, potentially, twenty aircraft or vehicles in a single location. Three juggernauts assaulting the common folk is something that can be overcome...but ten is unstoppable. Thus is why we are in such an awkward place with vehicles and aircraft right now.

As for restricting the projectile to 300m...I don't mind that at all, I was just trying to suggest something that everyone could agree with. Personally, I believe that the Mana Turrets should be more specialized towards their intended role...but in terms of the AV Turret, I believe it should have reinforced waist high walls at its front and two sides so that several Engineers can form blockades for incoming armor trying to use a road or bridge.

Enemy tanks could destroy the turret itself...but the base, which includes these walls, would be far more difficult to destroy and thus provide a temporary blockade against enemy vehicles even when the business end of this blockade has been terminated. I think this would be adequate justification to limit the weapon's range to 300m and the Engineers get a whole new facet to the turret that provides a much more interesting role.

Now, three or five Engineers can pop up their Anti-Vehicle Turrets into a fortified wall across any bridge, or road, to deny, or hinder, enemy vehicles the ability to pass until taken care of.

The real problem in all of this is render distance. Which SOE is exasperating by making or continuing to allow weapons that operate beyond render distance. The A/V mana turret is a frustrating problem but for me I still get mis-renders or disappearing people at ranges of 250 meters.

Since there is no way to use the minimap or other tools to enable a tank to retaliate( a solution such as the one that was used in PS1 when the flail was introduced would be a great solution) then the weapon needs to have it's damage beyond 280 meters reduced SEVERELY, to compensate close in damage ~60m should be enhanced.

I don't hate the AV Mana turret, it has it's place; but that place cannot be uncounterable.

I think a range decrease in way overdue, but I'd like an indicator that the missile hit its max range and is no longer active. Much like how we have a red reticule pop up when we hit, I think a blue reticule would be nice to show the missile hit its range limit and aborted. That way we know we're too far out and need to move or find another target.

Another thing would be to add "noise" to guiding: the same way a shot increase CoF with random values, the laser could have a random noise that will hinder guidance at very long range : the laser would move on a tiny 0.4° (or another value, must be tested) cone so aiming at extrem range is no more a garanted hit.

Certain defense slot should also provide laser painting warning, with possible auto spoting (for the vehicule only) at max range.

Well 2 is the problem here.
ANYONE saying one AV mana can ruin an armoured column is either lying or unaware that there were multiple manas there or something else ruining them as well. Why? Because i tried taking on four tanks from about 650m away (actually i was only aiming for one but there were four there). I failed to kill any of them and they got me three times with their guns (yes i was on the AV mana, I was the only one i could see and we didn't actually have many vehicles).
Well first i was obviously rendering for them, when i don't render it's not a balance issue it's a bug. The rendering issues need fixing (it's irritating seeing a shield gate and not being able to fire at it without risking the shield actually being up...) but beyond that the AV mana isn't OP (as those Tanks proved).
The reason they didn't die was because their unrendered engies were constantly repairing them and they were using cover, like smart tanks do.

Anyway to the main part of my most now.

Now switch to last night, I was the only AV mana (again) the back of the enemies lines were about 250m away (the front line was about 180m away). I got a total of 11 kills before i got bored and left the battle with no deaths while using the turret. They had air superiority, but they didn't even attack me (infact two of my kills were liberators that decided to just sit still and an unlucky reaver that buzzed me which then seemed to crash out of surprise...). Their tanks pot shotted at me but after about 15 seconds seemed to forget that i existed and for some reason despite me killing multiple infiltrators not one even tried to snipe or sneak up on me.
By the end of it was wanting someone to kill me just to break the monotony....
Just after i left the turret to redeploy i heard a NC LA behind me and above me, for some reason he didn't even seem to notice me, one free menace (dunno how he got that) kill later I had redeployed.

AV mana's are not over powered. People are just dozey. They had multiple chances to kill me from any angle but they didn't even bother, it was even night so an infil could've got near me and a LA DID with zero problem and like i said, i was (as far as i could see) the only AV mana there.

Now sure this is just two situations but i fail to see how AV manas are "invulnerable at long range" when i've died to long range tank shells while on one, invulnerability is TOTAL as in, absolute and in this case it means impossible to kill, if i was truly invulnerable while at long range i COULDN'T have died but i did, multiple times.
The second account is just to point out it's not the AV mana's fault that other people aren't bothering to counter them, 9 times out of 10 at them sorts of ranges, i would've been killed within 30 seconds due to a snipers bullet but for some reason i was able to do it for about 15 minutes before BOREDOM killed me. Maybe i got lucky (well i did) but the fact is, you CAN kill AV manas at very long ranges but not if you don't bother to actually shoot at them... Rendering bugs aside of course.....

Please show us your MLGPRO skills by shooting a mana turret 1km away that -if you are inredibly lucky- renders as one pixel on your screen. You have to do it with a Prowler twice though, if the Engi doesn't leave the turret after the first shot.

Same problem with air and Flak...

Oh god all those times when you just take hits from invisible forces.

No.1 rule in this game should be: If it deals damage to you, it should ******* render.

I don't even care if I can snipe it or not, i just want to see what the hell is shooting me.

Edit: Also I wouldn't even call it a nerf but rather a Fix... Being able to shoot someone without even rendering to them is downright stupid. Don't know what was SOE thinking, or maybe they were just too lazy to work a little bit with the infantry/vehicle rendering distances.

I'm sorry, did my A/V rocket stop your 60+ kill streak? Vehicle zerging takes as much skill as it does for me to snipe your tank from 1000+ meters away. Massing tanks should not be an instant iWin button and I feel no pity for any of you HE spam farmers.

Many have suggested reducing the range of the AV turret to 300m. Personally I think that is too short of a distance, god knows it frustrates the hell out of me when using the Phoenix, which makes it a pile of junk in most situations.

The biggest issue is that the vehicles can not counter the AV-turret itself for many reasons, either they are too far and too small to hit or simple do not render properly. So instead if we just made the projectile counterable, then it really doesn't matter as much at what range or where the AV turret is set up. Since you will be able to see the projectile and directly shoot it out of the air.

Shooting the projectile out of the air does a few things. First it introduces a skill & awareness based counter to the weapon, rather then just nerfing it. It also continues to allow infantry to set up at a safe range or to create difficult to reach AV nests, which in a way is a meta-game component. It also doesn't render the AV turret itself irrelevant even if the vehicle is killing the projectile, because the AV turret user is forcing the vehicle to focus on them.

I think think this solution is the best of both worlds the AV turret gets to keep its range and accuracy, while at the same time it allows vehicles to stop it from hitting them as long as they divert attention and one of their weapons to counter the projectile.

Make AV turret able to ADS with x3 - x6 scope, no bullet drop, faster velocity. Problems solved.

That is true, maybe more like 500~600m

I think you're just trolling now.

You and others like you constantly moan about AV mana's being "invincible" at long ranges and that they're OP because they don't render.
NEWS FLASH

They do.

So now, that you're original complaint has been disproven, you're boohooing about the fact that we're hard to hit, despite the fact that out of the last two times i've been +500m from the tanks i'm attacking i've been killed four times by vehicles in the region i was aiming at (the most recent was due to an AV phalanx).
I think the next stage of this argument is you're going to want a button that just detonates any turret within 1km of your position.....

Now if they don't render for you then fine, report it as a bug, mess with your settings whatever, get that fixed but the fact is, if i'm not rendering to you, it's a bug.
As for my skills, well i don't tank but i'm not the one complaining that AV mana's are too hard to hit but it's very obviously possible because it's happened to me multiple times just in the past week (especially as i've only had the AV mana out at long ranges twice this week, i got no kills both times btw....) so i don't think it's something that can't be compensated by skill, if you lack the skill to hit a none moving target, that's just not a problem with the AV mana, that's your problem.

OOOO here's an idea, seeing as you like tanking, seeing as you're probably an engineer anyway so you can repair your tank, why don't you park your tank somewhere safe (or safe as far as this game goes) and cert your own AV mana to blow up the enemies AV mana. I know this works cause i constantly kill enemy mana's at range. That way it literally becomes a skill vs skill thing. I don't think you will for some reason though.......

If the prowler can't ohk the turret, well that's HP, damage and general tanks balancing thing, though tbh the fact that you're moaning you can't ohk a hard object in something that's invulnerable to all small arms is tbh funny.

Also it's interesting there's this witch hunt against this supposedly invincible weapon (that i know from first hand experience isn't invincible in the situations it's supposedly invincible in), when there are weapons (like the lancer) that actually really CAN do damage while being unrendered and yet i've yet to see a post complaining about that ability, oh and it's also a weapon that costs no resources.

Overall i have zero sympathy for you. The AV mana is designed to be a long range anti-vehicle weapon. It can be countered both by combined arms (none tanks) and skilled tank users providing the tankers get their bugs sorted out. You are the one that's not even trying or just plain failing when you do try and calling for nerfs because it killed you in spite of you trying.
The people i do have sympathy for are all the infantry and particularly the infiltrators that have got into good spots that i can ohk from 200+ out because they do render as a pixel width and that's enough for me (and i believe most Av mana users) to kill them.

After reading as much as I could of the 10 pages, I came to this conclusion: Infantry doesn't want vehicles to be able to shoot back if they shoot at them with AV Weapons. That's like saying "I want to be able to shoot at a Max but it shouldn't be able to shoot at me. It has more armor and Firepower than my squishy little LA, it's unfair!"

Make them render up to 1000m at all times (including the engineer using it and more importantly, the projectiles), problem solved. Same should apply to any infantry to be honest.

On the other hand, I'd like bases not to be mindlessly shell spammed by easy mode tanks