One possible solution to the AV-MANA Turret with out nerfing it to extinction

The main issues with the AV-mana turret, is that it has incredible range, hits hard, has unlimited ammo and in many cases it doesn't render, making it annoying and difficult to counter.

Solution:
- Reduce its velocity to 80 m/s, thus with its 10 sec life span, will reduce its effective range to 800m
- Make the projectile just like the Phoenix rocket, ie.. very visible and possible to shoot out of the air.

One of the reasons, I like this solution, is that it would give an added role / alternative role for the secondary gunners in MBT's, which in turn would make putting a Kobalt, basilisk or even an AA secondary more desirable as those weapons would be effective in countering the AV-Mana Turret projectile by shooting it out of the air.

This solution also greatly benefits deployed and maned AMS's, which would give them a means of defending themselves against these turrets set up at extreme ranges.

*** The velocity reduction may not even be necessary, if the projectile had the identical properties of the Phoenix, primarily being highly visible and possible to shoot out of the air.

Only one of two things needs to happen:

1) make its maximum diatnce the same as render distance of Infantry

2) make it so it renders as a vehicle including the engineer manning it

My only problem with the AV turret is that it can effectively engage you and be 'invincible' because it doesnt render for you.

No, for two reasons.

First, weapons which can be shot out of the air become pretty ineffective and frustrating to use in larger fights. Honestly the Phoenix should have that trait removed.

Second, because AV turrets are overpowered due to their combination of pinpoint accuracy, extreme range, and high damage output.

• Their design as a laser-guided missile means they have to be pinpoint accurate.
• Their design as an AV weapon means they have to have a high damage output.
• So the only variable we can tweak is max range, which needs to be considerably lower.

Once the range is balanced, they could actually consider giving it better damage output. Something like, "While no missile is in flight the turrets cooldown ticks down 50% faster." This means firing on short range targets raises the DPS of the turret by a considerable amount, and creates a naturally lower damage output (down to the current DPS at the lowest) against distant targets. Which is exactly how infantry-based AV needs to be: pretty painful at close ranges and great for ambushing, but ineffective at range.

That wouldn't solve the meat of the issue with the AV MANA in that you can fire it without rendering to the target.

Infantry render distance is about 300 meters so the turrets range MUST cap at that.

Wholly agree. I use the Engineer Mana Turret(s), the Anti-Vehicle turret has range beyond G2A missles, is impossible to see at a distance and wholly aggravating for others to spot. A couple of engineers well placed beyond the visible range of 'spotting' can wipe out entire columns of vehicles. At best these guided rockets should be within 'spotting' distance.

AV turret could render with the priority of a vehicle. 300m is hilariously short for vehicle combat, just ask the pheonix users. If you **** the AV turret to 300m, it will be an overnerf, and make it very situational. The only way to offset that would be to allow it to be placed practically anywhere, and even then, it would be pretty much useless because at 300m everyone would see you, and everyone would shoot you, vehicles and infantry alike.

Fixing something without over nerfing it? This is not the SOE way my son.

Don't think those suggestions will fix the problem: here are some I thought of:

1. Give the projectile lots of acceleration like they did with MAX AV rockets to make them harder to use. Make it so that the steering is basically close to useless once its reached max speed which would occur between 100-150m.

2. Rocket explodes at 295m like a Phoenix rocket, possibly closer like 225-250m. Its effective range is part of what makes it uncounterable.

3. Autospot the turret to the driver and all occupants of the vehicle being attacked by said turret for 10 seconds.

If AV turret will have just 300 meters range it will be eseless.
I prefer range 600 meters. Witch speed 50 m/s (12 second flight) big noise andability to shot it down.
Increase AV turrett render range and it will be okay.

It would if its velocity was reduced to 75 m/s, and it registered / rendered as a vehicle like it is supposed too, at 75 m/s that would put its max range at 750m which is the max render range for a vehicle. Also, if you can shoot the projectile out of the air, then rendering isn't necessarily an unmanageable concern, once you determine the direction of the projectile, since you can shoot the projectile out of the air.

My concern is neutering the AV turret. Infantry still need an AV weapon system that is reliable at range and skill based but not a lock-on. At the same time vehicles need a means to counter or at least defend themselves, from this sort of threat. The Beauty of this solution is that the counter is skill and awareness based, yet at the same time it doesn't take too much away from a smart engineer or group of engineers that set up a good positioned AV nest.

If you give the projectile lots of acceleration, then it will become extremely strong against infantry and maxes and even vs the faster moving light armored vehicles that rely on speed for their survivability, we already have lock-ons to deal with those vehicles

AV with a range under 300m would make it way too situational and render the turret worthless, since it is stationary.

Thanks for the input though...

Make the AV turret have a range of 300 meters, max infantry render distance, that way infiltrators can actually snipe engineers and can help tanks that are providing them fire support. Combine arms synergy yay!

/Agree reducing the range would be viable fix for the problem and probably is the best solution, but infantry still need a long range AV weapons system such as this, and even if we force the turret to render as a vehicle and we maxed it's range to 500-750m, it is still going to be difficult to counter and any range reduction below 500m would make it considerably less effective and probably not worth the effort as many of the HA rockets would perform better in the sub 500m range.

/disagree weapon getting shot out of the air would be ineffective in larger fights, most players unless they are the target or are attempting to defend the target would ignore them for the most part. But even if they are taking the time and effort to defend their teammates from these sort of long range weapons, then that is a benefit in my opinion as it brings greater team work and combined arms play into the mix.

Thanks for the input...

Sorry, but no that would render the AV-turret useless and that is far from our goal. We are trying to examine ways to bring this weapon system in balance with other aspects of the game, with out making this valuable infantry based AV system worthless.

There are only 2 speeds on the PS2 Devtrain. UP and OP. Pick one.

In your opinion that would make it useless, in my opinion that makes it fair. You give up 0 resources to spawn it, you are given unlimited ammo for it, it visually doesn't not stand out like the AI turret, and it is laser guided.

i remember when the phoenix was fun until people started whining about it. Just like everything else in this game thats fun it gets nerfed into never being used again.

If your definition of fun is being able to wreck vehicles' day while be more or less untouchable, ok.

My opinion still stands, if a infiltrator standing by the vehicle being hit can't snipe the engineer on the turret, the turret's range is too far.

The only 2 options I've liked were: capping the range at 300, or taking away the laser guided part of it.

They made their money off the AV Mana turrets a long time ago. Not sure what's the hold up on the overnerf making it useless. Maybe they're still getting money from it?