New ARs are disappointing and should be changed!

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by jp5a9852, May 10, 2014.

  1. jp5a9852

    I don't post much but the ARs really concern me as a Combat Medic so here goes.
    After testing the TORQ more I've decided I like it but TR need a long range weapon that isn't a burst fire weapon.

    However, the TORQ is a good weapon that feels very TR. However, it is a close-medium range weapon and we already have 3 of those that fill the Close to Medium range. The TRV and TAR are very good at cqc. The T1 also is great for cqc with the benefit of being usable at medium to long range and is really versatile.

    Suggested solution:
    I suggest making the TRV have the TORQ stats and making the TORQ a longer range rifle. I'm thinking that the TORQ will be very similar to the NS-11a in keeping the same accuracy and damage. It will also have similar reload, velocity, and recoil. The difference is the TORQ will not have the .75 ads and will have 700 rpm.

    While I agree the TORQ is more versatile than the TRV and TAR I don't think it is versatile enough to warrant a spot in the TR arsenal when we do not have a second long range option like the other factions.

    I've noticed that faction have 2 closer range weapon and the default with is most versatile, and 2 long range weapons. At least this would make sense and I thought that this was to be the case. However all the new ARs fill a previously filled role. I'm not covering the burst and S version of the default rifles as the burst versions are slightly longer range versions and S weapons are IMO are the same range as the default rifles but with more attachments.

    VS
    Close: HV-45
    ~Close-Medium: (Terminus should go here, needs revamp though).
    Medium: VS1
    Medium-Long: CME, Terminus(Where it is currently)
    Long: Corvus

    NC
    Close: GR-22
    Close-Medium: Carnage
    Medium: NC1
    Medium-Long: (TROSS should be here)
    Long: Reaper, TROSS(Where it is currently)

    I was expecting a medium-long option for NC but they got a gun even better at range than the Reaper and because the reaper has high recoil I'd argue it's in the Medium-Long range category not just the long.

    TR
    Close: TAR
    Close-Medium: TRV, TORQ(Where TORQ currently is)
    Medium: T1
    Medium-Long: (where TORQ is needed with revamped stats)
    Long: Sabr 13

    Yes it is true that every faction doesn't NEED every category filled but as a TR I really want this Medium-Long category filled with a great feeling weapon. I think VS need a looking at too, NC less so. As I do not play those faction often I will not suggest a solution for those weapons but you can see my opinion of where they should go in the range categories above.

    These are my opinions on the subject and as someone who mains TR medic I want a gun that offers a better defined role. We are not likely to get new ARs for a long time after this so im concerned as I want more variety in the AR's.

    What do y'all think? Do you like the TORQ but see the role gap? Do you think it is ok that TR does not have a Medium-Long option? Should the TORQ stats be applied to the TRV, much like the Lynx revamp?

    Drathamus Gaming put up a video on the subject and described how the new guns fill no new role. Search him for another opinion on the matter.

    SOE please consider making the changes described in this post.
    • Up x 4
  2. Tentakewls

    Ursa is an LMG, Corvus is the AR
  3. jp5a9852

    Thanks, I got the names mixed up. Fixed now.
  4. jp5a9852

    Before the NS-11a is mentioned, yes it fills the mid-long range role but TR still deserve a faction specific Mid-Long range gun with our own flavor. The 700 rpm and lack of .75 ads movement would help this gun feel different to the NS-11a. On this note I think CME needs more faction uniqueness added to it, but I'm not VS so I won't say what they should get.
  5. Empyrean

    TORQ is fine. I can burst shot the furthest VR Training Dummies out from the base with little to no issue. It's honestly more accurate than the T1.
    • Up x 4
  6. jp5a9852

    That's true, however, that can be said for most weapons with proper recoil control and bursting. I just don't believe it will be able to deal with ranged enemies in a live server scenario. Also remember that average accuracy is around 15% I believe(Not sure where to confirm this but I've heard it before and it sounds right). Many times I can kill a test dummy at 100m with one clip while standing still and bursting, yet, many times I don't get the kill doing the same thing. I'm probably not as good a shooter as you.

    Also I like the TORQ and I think it's different enough to be in the TR arsenal but not take up the slot that I believe should be filled with a med-long range rifle. I also suggested that the TORQ current stats be given to the TRV. It's a close-med range gun right now IMO, and the TRV and TAR are too similar so giving TRV the TORQ's current stats will keep a unique feeling gun in our arsenal and still fill our close-med range option.

    Does anyone think TRV should have the stats of the current TORQ? I believe the TRV and TAR are too similar, much like the Lynx and Jaguar were, albeit not as much.
  7. Greddy

    Dont let the RPM fool you guys.
    TORQ is more accurate than T1 when moving ADS, and has widely attachment that support that longer range than T1. TORQ is fine imo, the only downside from T1 is Damage pr Mag is less, tkk is roughly the same. It fill the roll for an allrounder. TAR and TRV is better suited for CQC. and cant be compared to the TORQ. Since it has better accuracy then T1 and low CoF and recoil, while still maintaining fast RPM for CQC (it even rivals our smg's for CQC work) This imo make the weapon the best allround AR for the TR.

    The damage pr mag is the only downside for this weapon, if it wasent it would be a strait upgrade from the T1.

    Range suitable weapons from CQC to Long distance:
    _____CQC_____|______ALLROUNDER__________|___Long_____|
    TRV Cycler, TAR, T1 Cycler, T1S Cycler , TORQ-9, T1B, SABR-13
    • Up x 5
  8. NoctD

    The TORQ is excellent as is and SHOULD NOT BE CHANGED in any way whatsoever!
    • Up x 4
  9. jp5a9852

    While all of what you said concerning the statistics of the TORQ is true, I really can't see it being that great at range. I may be wrong though. Close-Medium seems like what this gun is for, despite having a compensator, HV ammo, low recoil, and NS-11a accuracy. It's damage model brings it down to much to be any good at long range. While it is certainly more versatile than the TRV and TAR I don't think it is more versatile than the T1 or T1S. In any case I want the gun in the game, just in the form of the TRV instead of the current TRV. I base this on my use in the VR. I have regular accuracy and the gun feels like a long range gun but doesn't have the ranged stopping power to do it.

    Would you rather:
    Current TORQ
    Current TRV

    or

    TORQ as it is now except with 143 damage model,700 rpm, and .50 ads movement. ~ a better med-long range option IMO.
    TRV with the current TORQ stats. ~ still keeps the unique weapon but puts it in what I believe to be it's proper role. Literally asking for the TORQ with the TRV weapon model. YOU WON'T be losing the TORQ.

    Really im not asking people to give up the TORQ but the TRV for a revamped weapon using the TORQ skin for long range.

    I believe these changes would leave the TR medic arsenal in a more varied and useful position.
  10. Nakar

    Understand that being a 125 max damage gun does not disadvantage the TORQ, and is one of the most brilliant things about it for long-range performance. Consider the NS-11A, a gun you think it should fill the same role as. At minimum damage the NS-11A is doing 125 damage at 652 RPM, or about 1358 DPS with a TTK of around 0.644s. At minimum damage the TORQ is doing 112 damage at 857 RPM, or about 1600 DPS with a TTK of around 0.560s.

    Basically, the 125 damage tier can leverage its higher RPM at minimum damage ranges because the way damage tiers in this game scale, each jump higher is a greater difference. 200 to 167 is 33 damage, 167 to 143 is 24, 143 to 125 is 18, and 125 to 112 is only 13. The damage curve is much flatter, about 2.5x flatter than the Reaper DMR's. The way the Lynx and TORQ appear to be designed, the DPS is similar to or a little worse than similar alternatives at point blank range (the DPS on the TORQ is actually way closer to the T1 than the Lynx's is to the GD-7F's, but the TTK complicates it slightly) unless you get headshots, and they tend to have worse DPM due to the weaker bullets.

    But - and this is a huge but! - a flatter damage curve means better performance out toward the lower end of the magazine relative to higher damage tier weapons, and better relative DPM as well. The Lynx loses about 1000 DPM from max to min damage, but the GD-7F loses like 1290. The TORQ loses like 600 or so DPM shooting at max range. It's a more efficient gun at all ranges. Now this would be useless if it couldn't hit things at those ranges but as the TORQ currently stands it totally can. The handling is amazing for a >800 RPM gun. It is a higher skill cap generalist weapon over the T1 that rewards that skill with some fantastic advantages in efficiency and readiness (thanks to that sweet reload), but disadvantages to throughput and sustainability. And the damage model essentially makes it more reliable at longer distances than the T1 is.

    So the TORQ is already filling the role you're saying it should fill.
    • Up x 5
  11. OddChelsea

    The Tross is absolutely fine, the Reaper already fills medium long perfectly and the Tross has higher base velocity, predictable recoil and 2x burst for longer ranges. It's a perfect alternative for people who don't like the 24 rounds of the Reaper. Please don't change it SOE because a TR thinks we need something else... And for the love of everything please, please, please don't take away my 2nd 200 damage assault rifle. NC needs more of them not less, we joined for damage.
    • Up x 5
  12. Heyitsrobbie1984

    what they think is we need more shotguns
  13. Hibiki54

    The Reaper is a medium-long range rifle based on default stats. With HVA, it becomes a long range rifle with the 550 m/s buff to 650m/s with HVA. A-Tross velocity is default 630 m/s with the option for HVA to bump it near 700 m/s
    • Up x 1
  14. jp5a9852

    Well, your logic and stats have swayed me, to an extent. I admit I'm not very good at recoil compensation even on a weapon with such low recoil, I suppose that is why I couldn't get consistent kills at 100 meters with TORQ in 1 magazine. The TORQ is medium range weapon I'm convinced, not completely sold on Medium-Long because the NS-11a has lower rpm which means the recoil is much easier to control as it is happening less often. I also find it easier to burst accurately with the NS-11a. I guess I wanted it to be as good as NS-11a at range AND still have a TR flavor. I'll find out for sure about the TORQ's range effectiveness once I save 1000 certs to get it on live. Would you say the TORQ is as effective at range as the NS-11a? I wouldn't.

    I still think we should have a 700 rpm AR with NS-11a accuracy. I also think the TRV should have the TORQ stats except with worse accuracy and .75 ads speed as mentioned in another thread about the TORQ. I see this as a more varied and useful arsenal. As I see your stance I guess this would just be personal preference/opinion at this point.

    @OddChelsea
    Yeah, as I stated in the original post the Reaper might be the NC's med-long and the more I think about it the more I agree. I do think the A-Tross is the best AR in the game right now. It's damage model alone makes it decent in cqc not to mention it is amazing at range. Makes me want to switch to NC as I see them as having the most varied and useful arsenal for all classes, not just medic.


    @Heyitsrobbie1984
    Hehe, no.... no we don't. Though it does feel pretty awesome when a bunch of NC are coming at you with shotties and taking them down before the can close the gap. That doesn't happen to much anymore though, for me at least.

    @Hibiki54
    Reaper gets 100m/s buff with HV ammo? How do you know this?
  15. Hibiki54

    PU2 patch notes when they did the big infantry weapon update.
  16. Halkesh

    I think both TORQ and tross are a good weapon, but what's about Terminus ?
    On paper this weapon has good DPM (143 / 769 RPM if I remember right) , near 20% better than all VS weapon, but the Terminal has the same problem as the beamer : it's a mouse-killer weapon.

    Anybody have tested the Terminus accuracy ?
  17. Greddy

    Terminus suffer the same problem as the other burst weapons, hard to reach potential dps and First shot multiplier recoil.
    They either need to give Terminus an autofire mode, or give it the same FSMR as the SABR-13 to make it viable.
  18. Scientiarum

    I so totally agree. With the suggestions for all 3 factions

    I main VS and so have tested the Terminus most thoroughly at this point. The VS already have two distinct long range ARs. Now granted, ARs are supposed to be slightly more range oriented than their carbine equivalents, but they already are overall because all carbines have a 2 tier damage drop-off as it is. Since the last re-balance both the CME and the Corvus are very strong ranged weapons and the Pulsar Burst, though underutilized, is actually a fantastic weapon at a slightly extended mid range.

    Although I love the idea of the SABR type weapon, I don't think it is necessarily what VS *needs* at the moment. I would take a two round bust IF it was a 167 dmg weapon that could be an effective mid range burst weapon or closer, but honestly, it would probably just be easier to take a more traditional route for a mid ranged to close-ish range weapon here.
  19. Heyitsrobbie1984

    the problem with all burst fire weapons is they dont do enough damage
  20. jp5a9852

    SOE giving the VS a 3rd long range rifle doesn't make any sense to me at all. The fact that it is a burst weapon already means a large portion of the population won't use it. There are many people that do not like burst weapons and don't use them. That aside though IT FILLS NO ROLE! I honestly don't know what they're doing. Since I decided that the NC Reaper is mid-long rifle the NC arsenal is the most diverse as far as weapons.

    NC(REVISED)
    Close: GR-22
    Close-Medium: Carnage AR
    Medium: NC1 Gauss Rifle
    Medium-Long: Reaper DMR
    Long: A-TROSS

    Back to the VS weapon. If they make it full auto it'd just be a straight upgrade from VS1 Pulsar and it would be boring. Can we think of anything that can make this gun unique for the VS?

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