Nanoweave affects more than just snipers. It is a nerf to NC, long ranged combat & gameplay pace

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Trysaeder, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. hostilechild

    Actually that is not true. Until the NW boost to 250hp i had never worn it. I used flak, flak was the goto due to all the grenade/prox mine spam, tanks, rocket pods etc.

    Its actually a 2 fold boost for why NW is go to now. Explosion damage radius was nerfed and NW was buffed. I now only put on flak during indoor operations that are always a spam fest. If flak actually mitigated direct (rocket/tank shell) damage then it would be more useful, it only blocks splash (

    Utility belt for Medic for extra grenades is more useful by far for that class, I also don't know any LA using nw other suits are more useful.

    If NW was dropped back to 125 i would go back to flak all the time except a few situations for belt/ammo etc.

    Personally i think NW should have been for HA only and had a 10% movement speed cost (HA guns tend to have lower ttk so need the health, can't hipfire so raises ttk the time to ADS (well VS can hipfire theirs accurately). All the suits should have had some specific to a class.

    *you either have more hp/shield and hit hard but fire slow or low hp/shield but fire/move fast and hit soft.
  2. felfox

    Nano weave should have given % resist based on weapon damage, being a suit slot used to get an edge (read: not a definite win just because your opponent doesn't have it) in a gun fight, to help better shrug off stray bullets while running through a battlefield, survive things like smgs and pistols that use very low caliber bullets. And basically just been, well an edge. It should never have reduced skill based shooting such as headshots on any weapon not just snipers. It should had less effect on heavy slow weapons because the point of slow heavy bullets is to hit hard and be accurate/ammo responsible.

    Sniping someone in the head from very far away can be incredibly difficult and when a key target like a medic or an engi or a heavy with a rocket or an La with c4 or (gasp i guess anyone really!) is able to shrug off your shot and either heal up, hide, do the ants in pants ADAD dodge or just turn around, shield up and blow you apart anyway... Being able to guarantee that single shot matters a lot. As for none snipers, being able to better negate already cumbersome weapons that worst of all are predominant on one faction is really terrible for balance and fun.

    Nano is too good, is working way outside a reasonable (okay granted I'm not a dev and this isn't my game but I still think they're nuts to let this go as is :/ ) parameter and overshadows all other functions. It should be a side grade that helps against the chaotic flow of battle, not turn you into a super soldier. Nano needs to be toned down or at least lose the head coverage. Others like flak should get an increase defense to at least smaller grade explosives like grenades and mines and maybe reduced effect from concussions and flash (though that might make it too good... still, ideas) bandolier could give the ability to carry a second type of grenade to make it more appealing. No idea how to make more ammo appealing though... Point is they should ALL be choices yet they should never prevent a player, no matter what BR to be able to defeat you through skill... Just because someone isn't BR 50 or something doesn't mean they're new to an FPS. If they're better than you, accept it. Just because you sat around a few dozen alerts and coasted on your teammates does not give you the right to cert up and suddenly be -better- Nanoweave currently does this... it straight up makes you better in terms of how much more breathing time you have to mess around with while under fire and it shouldn't reward being sloppy.

    Lastly, just because you don't see a sniper as helpful does not give you the clairvoyance to dictate if they are or aren't helping, nor does it give you the right to dictate how they should be spending their time! People play for personal score, for certs or for regular ol fashion map conquering. Some play with friends, others play alone, some play with friends and are mucking around aimlessly and others play solo trying to assist their faction as much as possible... It's a game meant for fun, fun being objectively different for every individual, no one has the right to say another player is 'doing it wrong' (unless they're being purposely disruptive of other players' fun of course.)
  3. Shatters

    The irony is strong in this one. This is pretty much what you have done this entire thread to everybody that disagreed with you.

    The problem is, is that a suit slot cert makes a sniper go from : I have a fair chance to kill somebody at long range if i account for bullet drop, travel time, scope sway and more stuff correctly. if i dont make the headshot, my chances of killing that person are going to be close to 0% and they are likely to look for me.

    With NW:
    Oh, another headshot, and hes still alive. Better change my spot because that player will be looking for, while i still did everything right that i could have done.

    Also, about ps2 being a teamwork game:
    yes, PS2 is a teamwork game. However, without said teamwork you should and can contribute to your team. This is a game where your INVIDUAL actions help the team. If you make it so that a class in useless on its own, then the class is not going to contribute anything to the team either. The amount of communication needed between 2 snipers, to both shoot a headshot at the same target, at the same time, while both hitting the target, is enormous. Keep in mind that spotting targets is suicide. Keep in mind that 2 bodyshots wont kill somebody that survives a HS. Keep in mind that players will hunt you down, especially ESF's and LA's. Keep in mind that the sniper has to spend alot of time getting into position.
  4. TheBloodEagle

    You can't really talk about balancing something when there's clearly a bias here for individual classes.
    • Up x 1
  5. Shatters

    Of course there is going to be bias. Nanoweave doesnt effect short range combat as much as it does effect long-range combat. Since 5/6 classes have their focus on CQC, quess which class i going to complain?
    • Up x 1
  6. Trysaeder

    I highly doubt that most classes are built for CQC. Maybe the light assault and the SMG infiltrator, but everything else prefers to fight at medium range (otherwise everyone would be using shotguns).

    Even in CQC, the difference between having NW or not is the difference between having a 800 RPM weapon and a 700 RPM one. A CQC weapon user has the same TTK at 10m as a medium range weapon user, making its effect significant even at 10m.
  7. lilleAllan

    Lol everything but snipers are cqc classes now?

    Persecution complex?
  8. Shatters

    5 out of those 6 classes are going to engage combat within ~50m range a huge amount of the time, often closer then that. Within that range NW is much less of a issue, because the TTK is pretty high in that area anyway. I agree that NW effect is really significant (25% more hp is a big deal) at close / mid range already, but at long range it increases the TTK by such a long time that the weapons and current mechanics are not balanced with NW in mind.
  9. Trysaeder

    I don't agree with the logic in bold. NW multiplies the TTK by a constant value, but the absolute increase in number of bullets grows as range increases. My opinion is that this is significant at maximum damage range, and becomes even more significant as the range increases from there.

    The last sentence is definitely true though. Nothing will kill a NW equipped enemy at 100m before they are able to take evasive action (which greatly increases the probability of surviving), and average skilled players will have a hard time killing enemies within a single normal magazine (especially so for VS players).
  10. Vaphell

    I would say it's not even constant outside of lab conditions. CoF bloom expands so with each fired bullet your accuracy goes down. What about much greater probability of running out of ammo? Take auto scout for example - it has what, 24 bullets in its mag? In realistic scenarios it's almost impossible to kill ubershielded HA without reload. What about the additional time granted by NW that allows HAs or medics to press F to win when ambushed when they would have been dead otherwise?
  11. Trysaeder

    This as a whole is a side effect of having high TTK. As time progresses, all the negative bonuses to accuracy accrue until you either kill the guy or run out of bullets. In the cases of heavy assaults, long ranged nanoweave, or the nightmare heavy with nanoweave at medium range, this happens all too often. Weapons such as the Eridani and pistols are all turned into high risk weapons (lacking the high reward part) simply because their magazine means that not killing an enemy results in death.
  12. Littleman

    143 @ 10m. 125 @ 65m.
    143 - 125 = 18 damage lost over 55m.
    55m/18 = ~3.06 meters per point of damage lost.
    9 STK @ <22m @ 1250 hp.
    10 STK @ =65m @ 1250 hp.

    167 @ 10m. 143 @ 75m.
    167 - 143 = 24 damage lost over 65m.
    65m/24 = ~2.7 meters per point of damage lost.
    8 STK @ <40m @ 1250 hp.
    9 STK @ <=75m @ 1250 hp.

    200 @ 10m. 167 @ 85m.
    200 - 167 = 33 damage lost over 75m.
    75m/33 = ~2.3 meters per point of damage lost.
    7 STK @ <58m @ 1250 hp.
    8 STK @ <=85m @ 1250 hp.

    Turns out, for medium ranged combat, the NC actually have something of a slight advantage against NW5 over the standard VS or TR weapon, but only because RoF amounts to less and less the greater the distance we're talking, while accuracy is king of which - depending on whom you ask - may or may not be a strength of the NC. This is where the VS low recoils come into the balance equation, and the TR's stupidly high rate of fire and large magazines beat out the other two empires in the sub-25m engagement distance through sheer DPS. It could be said the game is more balanced around the concept of each soldier being equipped with nanoweave than without. Think about that concept for a moment.

    I'd wager it isn't that the NC weapons are suffering at medium range compared to the other two so much as most players just plain suck at shooting in general.
  13. Xae

    I have Nanoweave 5 on a single setup. My Eidolon/Lancer/Resist setup.

    Other than that I use Flack Armor on every non-infiltrator setup I have.

    I don't see a problem with NW5.
  14. Trysaeder

    I guess this changes the perspectives somewhat. Instead of "choose your bonus" it's more like "think you can do with 250 less health? go ahead".

    That's probably true, and I know a lot of players who think NC have the worst players. Most NC style weapons aren't as intuitive to use as their TR or VS counterparts.
  15. Aegie

    Adrenaline Pump.

    Show of hands, who thinks that 10% great sprint speed = 25% more health?

    Best part about Adrenaline Pump? When you win you know it was not just because you had more health.

    Worst part about Adrenaline Pump? No way it is a "competitive" choice in most scenarios.

    There is no problem, per se, with NW5- the issue is that the other options are not equally competitive.

    Adrenaline Pump, for instance, needs to be a tree with options to increase walk speed, then ADS speed, then the final (and expensive) tier should give an extra little bump to all movement speed.
    • Up x 1
  16. Larington

    Nanoweave isn't a choice, it's a necessity - I've had too many firefights in my days of playtime where without nanoweave I wouldn't have survived because they had Nanoweave too. I have to equip it just so I can compete!
    • Up x 2
  17. Trysaeder

  18. Kunavi

    The problem is not just with NW, there are other things that are simply too good to swap. Like the Dalton, why swap with Zephyr(Both fully Certed)? B4 getting the Dalton for both of our Liberators, me and a friend used Try Out on both Dalton and Zephyr and in every single instance the Dalton was 100% better.

    Same goes for the Halberd on a Harasser. No, scratch that- It's not the Halberd and it's not even the Harasser(Different story that), it's rather why not pick a fast, easy to use, twitch based, Good VS All weapon. It just happens to be the Halberd for TR, I know the NC have a better version and the VS have an alternative but they are both filling the same role. Let me clarify if I can, why use the Marauder other than the extra 8 Kills when you find an Infantry pocket? Or the Vulcan? I'm saying the problem lies with "Over All Better" or "Good At Every Thing" weapons and suit slots which quickly evolve to being Uber VS All the more skilled their user is.

    NW is that, Halberd like weapons also fit the bill... Dalton too. They may not be too enjoyable(For instance the Zephyr feels great, far better than the Dalton but it's not cutting it as it is a lot more situational). Add Cool Down in pulling things and you'll definitely go for what will cover at least 80% of situations. What is the most versatile if used well enough.

    In NW's case things are worse - You don't pay for it, it's always on your slot. It has no limitations. Costs nothing. And it covers just about 90% of the situations you will encounter, for the rest there's skill... (Resisted typing MasterCard LOL)..

    The way to deal with this is to limit such items and not buff the others, the others are good but situational. That's what EVERYTHING should be in PS2.

    Especially when TTK is so bad you can't even blink or you get creamed.
    • Up x 2
  19. Aegie

    I disagree a little on this point I think.

    For me, I'm fine with someone who wants more health to have enough more health to notice that they have more health. Part of what I find a little annoying in PS2 is how just about everything feels meh and how this is probably due to the mind set that things cannot be too different or else people will complain. I mean, I suppose they could reduce the effectiveness of NW5 but then I will probably never see Adrenaline Pump be anything more than a gimmick for getting from place to place a wee bit faster. My issue is that I would like a fully certed Adrenaline Pump to result in a noticeable increase in sprint (tier one), walk (tier two), ADS (tier three) and then finally a small little additional boost to them all (tier four) because otherwise you can hardly tell you have it equipped and it does very very little for you in most combat situations. Personally, at least in the case of NW, I would rather see them take another look at some of these options and find ways to make them more effective so that the person who feels TTK is too short does have an option that will truly make it feel longer just like I, who feels all movement is too slow, will have something to truly make it feel faster. Everyone wins because everyone gets a little more of what they want but these things are constructed in such a way that while my opponent may have more health, it will be easier for me to hit them and harder for them to hit me since I am moving faster while we are exchanging shots.
  20. Vaphell

    Of course they will complain, it's not a PvE oriented MMO where players of various levels are not pitted against each other, but a competitive shooter. Here we still have BR100s walking over BR1-20 regularly, imagine what would happen if every cert line meant plain 25%+ clearly visible improvement.

    BR advantage is already huge, which is bad for newbie retention. High rank players have
    - advantage of experience
    - usually more hp
    - decked out weapons
    - decked out skills
    - decked out rides
    - flexibility offered by a range of utilities