LMG changes, YAY or NAY? vote!

the betelgeuse is OP, yes, all other 0.75 LMGs are well within normal KPH/KPU stats, i posted those in every "nerf 0.75ADS LMGs" thread ever, but people don't take them seriously in the slightest and insist the orion is OP, though the anchor kicks the orions *** all day, even if you only look at Q4 stats

inb4: but the orion is a starting weapon, derp: these stats are filtered out when looking at Q4 or BR100 stats to a degree of maybe every 100th player at BR100 not having a "top LMG of their faction" (Anchor, MSW-R, Orion or SVA-88)

lol @ comparing the SAW and CARV to the Orion, compare the MSW-R and Anchor to it
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kpu&weapon1=80&weapon2=7236&weapon3=7254

why you need to compaire THE STARTER weapons. See it like this. If you give 1000 guns each fraction. So TR get 100 MSW-R and 900 Carv while the VS get 900 orions and 100 god knows what. See there is an imbalance right there IF the starter weapons alone can´t compete with each other.

what he is saying you can give a good player a vanilla solstice ve3 (698rof/143dps/0,5ads) and a bad player a GD7F with ALS (845rof/143dps/0,5ads) or a bandit (632rof/167dps/0,75ads --> but nearly the same ttk as the GD7F) and the good player will still kill the GD7F or bandit wielder.

https://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/#sttk/sh25-10-10/la/1/7174/7169S/17

so, just because your interpretation of what he said is what you want to read, it does not mean that he really wrote or meant that. it just means that you are a try hard "im allways right" person and i would bet its always the fault of enemys OP weapons if you die in the game and not the fact that you ran straight up to an HA while playing infil or LA instead of using them to flank your oponent.

this should be more a thing for ALL carbines in this game since they are a light weight weapon class.

TR has the strongest (most damage per mag/ fastest TTK) starter AR and carbine. Its so much easyer to take out a hostile HA with the Trac 5 than with the solstice VE3 which is the weakest starter carbine due to the 30x143dps profile and the 698rof (mercenary has the same ttk but still more damage per mag than the solstice).
If you want fairness you have to:
1. give vanu carbines and AR 5 more bullets (reloadspeed has to increase) per mag
2. TR AR and carbines have to go from 40x143dps with 750rof to 40x125dps with 750rof (recoil has to lowerd)
This way all 3 factions will have the same damage per mag and TTK for ARs and carbines.
Also the vanu weapons should not lose damage over range faster than other weapons in the same class. the no drop thing already gets compensated by slower muzzle velocity and the highest first shot multiplier.

before you start complaining over fairness you have to look at all aspects and not only on one little thing.

http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kpu&weapon1=43&weapon2=44&weapon3=3

Mmmh they all perform the same i don´t get you? Here you see clear how it should be and if you look at the Orion, Carv and Saw you see something is going on there.

Don´t get me wrong but pls check the stats i mean the real in game perfomance before you post

yeah, because they are used by BR 1-10. yesterday i was in a biolab as LA (trying to get my armor) and all the NC LAs (even the low BRs) are running the GD7F and while fighting TR you will have a lot more people go for the Jaguar and when it comes to Vanu....hmmm...i like my eclipse but the default carbines are underused and still fact is, that the solstice is that the Trac 5 is the strongest but all players will get themselves the strongest weapons in the weapon class they can get especially since new players get 100certs for the first 15BRs.

And comparing Carv, Orion and Saw is not the best idea, simply because carv and saw are not used as often as Anchor and MSW-R.
Look at BR90-100 and then check the performance of Anchor, MSW-R and Orion because those are the most used HA weapons for those classes.

http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=br100kpu&weapon1=80&weapon2=7254&weapon3=7236

seems as if the orion gets outperformed by the anchor and msw-r most of the time if we look at the BR100 KPU stats and even if we compete the OP 0,75ads SVA88 with anchor and MSW-R we will see, better KPU within the BR 100


http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=br100kpu&weapon1=7276&weapon2=7236&weapon3=7254

And its easy to explain why the BG performs better than butcher and Godsaw. The heat mechanic is unique and even while the BG is more shaky than the orion it will be played because of the heat mechanic. The butcher and God Saw try to get theire own niche but are not unique enough to be played over the MSW-R and Anchor so, yes, the BG is the most used directives LMG in the game.

Lets start form the end here. The Betelgeuse is so out of whack if you are saying its not op i just stop talking to you.

So you are saying to get the same perfomance TR and NC have to spend money or time to compete with the VS? So the VS get the best LMG for free while the other two factions have to "pay" for it.

Alone there you get such an imbalance from top to buttom giving one side the best gun from start while the other have to "grind" the way through. And as i said 1000 times the betel comes on top of that making the "best" LMG even better. Tell me how can TR or NC compete with that.

And stop telling tales from the games. In the world of MMO´s hard numbers count and not i have the "feeling" stories.

Fact 1

VS HA is overperforming by a VERY large margin

Fact 2

VS HA has the best starter weapon and that gun is used the most

Fact 3

VS is winning 40-50 of the alearts across of all servers

Its hard to get like a conclusion out of these numbers and balanacing stuff. But i bet a horse that the Orion and its stats have something (a small part) to do with that.

wow, "FACTS" huh? care to back those up (1 and 2) with any data?
and please don't make yourself lose your credibility by posting overall kills, VS have the best CQC starting weapon, yes, but the orion is no better than the Anchor or MSW-R

hell, the SVA-88 scores better than the Orion, and even that is just up to par with the MSW-R and Anchor
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kph&weapon1=7276&weapon2=7236&weapon3=7254
maybe you could argue VS should get another starting weapon, but seeing TR having the sam 750 RPM 143dmg and double the magazine size weapon which is worse in some other aspects, do you really want everyone from VS running around with an SVA-88 instead of a Orion?

you are not a strong reader!

Its very hard to write against! VS HA has a better K/D across all servers by about 20 %
VS get the best LMG from the start while others have to "grind" for it. So you need to replace the MSW-R with the Carv and the Anchor with the Saw or get the orion in line with the Carv and Saw.

Ok let me explain it like this

Every player in this scenario is equaly good:

We have on one side

800 Carvs
200 MSW-R

on the other side

800 Orions
200 SV-88

on the third side we do have

800 Saws
200 Anchors

who wins? I know its a very dumbed down experiment here and a little bit out of the game but you see what the problem is here.

The LMG changes should have alteast stayed on the Roadmap.

No, he's saying the heat mechanic is what makes the BG OP and not that it's based on the Orion. This is something literally every single person with the BG agrees on.

Not really. The best non directive LMG in the game is the Anchor. VS get their CQC LMG for free which happens to be a great LMG with quite a few downsides that literally never get brought up in all these nerf 0.75 ADS threads.

I can easily make 1000 certs in 2-3 hours, and fresh players get a massive amount of certs to spend on things when they start the game.

Not to mention things like maxing out a heavy's oversheild and suit slot gives them an advantage regardless of what weapon they're using.

Yes, and every single hard number available says that the Orion isn't OP.

VS in general perform better. Personal anecdote but from what I've seen VS is more organized and more into working as a team on my server on than the other two factions which leads to a VS advantage that translates into other things. Not to mention that unlike the NC and TR, CS don't have a wide array of "good" weapons to choose from which leads to everyone using the few "good" weapons we actually have.

This fact is true, but it's not because the Orion is OP. Again, VS have very few "good" guns to use and almost everyone that knows anything about this game has switched to the CQC LMG's on their faction because they're incredibly strong.

GINYU FORCE RULES!

It's an MMO, and literally every single MMO in existence has the rule of teamwork = OP. From my perspective VS is the faction with the most teamwork which means they'll win more. Why they're more inclined to be teamwork oriented I don't know, maybe because things like the Magrider, Lasher, and Lancer requires teamwork to be effective and that carries on to other things. I mean really, what guilds were the first to clear Molten Core or Black Wing Lair? Was it the super organized ones that emphasized teamwork or the bunch of randoms that did work well as a team?

Honestly, at this point, I don't even care.

I'm using the NS11M now anyways because I find it better lol

The problem I saw with their changes is that basically the Orion ended up as the MSW-R (not a bad thing) but missing the SPA and ALS attachment options (bad). This is of course on top of trading 25m/s velocity for no-bullet drop (I'd prefer higher velocity on a CQB weapon, but it's little impact either way)

NS11M?

What is this weapon?


I believe you ment the NS-15M........

Not only that the SVA-88 and Pulsar basically switched places (no reason to use the SVA-88 over the Pulsar if those changes got made) along with zero buffs to the Flare.

Like I've said, I'm not opposed to the changes but they really need to work more on making the entire VS LMG selection viable instead of slightly nerfing one, buffing one, heavily nerfing another, and slightly buffing one and calling it a day.

So well this will be my last post on this topic the DEVS seem to not look into this and not spending time on blancing at all in this game.

I think in this thread i heard it all the Orion is not better to the VS are just more orginised (again 20 % better K/D ACROSS all server in HA). Someone even said the Orion is better because its used more. I mean REALLY?

It seems like this game is really pay to win at least for the TR or NC. We do have to buy the weapons to compete. Just this conclusion makes the whole Betelgeuse more frustrating because we just need to play VS to get this OP KIT.

August Update did not hit. The NS Swarm is on the testserver and no DEV mention this thing again. It will be removed from the so called "roadmap" silently. It seems like the Gatekeeper and the other AV weapons are all over the place.

The VS are winning alearts on all servers because they are more orginised. On miller i truly can say the NC try to avoid the VS where they can and attack the TR just to have more fun fights where you can compete on the field.

Again I say it for the most little mind on this forum:

The Orion and Betel are the most feared weapons in this game and are the most used in the VS department and they are both for free.

TR AND NC HAVE TO PAY

Pretty sure I had to grind out 5800 kills for my Betelgeuse, 4640 not on the Orion... which at even 1 cert per 2 kills would still leave me with 1900 certs after getting the Anchor or 2575 after getting the MSW-R.

as i said i give up it seems i do have a language wall i can´t push through. The TR and NC directive weapons are worse then the normal ones which are not even great to begin with while on the VS side................

ahh sorry its hopeless. Numbers don´t help reason does not help its like trying to talk against a wall. But well keep your Betel keep the Orion and lets all pretent its balanced (numbers show something else but who gives a f"§$)

As a reminder, we do not allow polling and we've probably have plenty more LMG change threads. While the changes are off the table for now, they have not been dismissed entirely. We'll let you know if this changes.