[Vehicle] Liberator Tank Buster - TOO MUCH DAMAGE

The fact that 9/10 times a lib pilot isn't deterred from something that's supposed to be a deterrent (according to most pilots) says something is wrong. The fact that pilots will continue an attack run on my Skyguard when I know they are coming and start firing and moving to protect my rear before they are lined up is kind of ********.

Must.. not.. let .. shiny.. distract me..

Here we go:
your green 14.7 k damage is a full liberator clip.
However, you didn't take resistances into account. Specifically, the multiplier against tanks is different between tankbuster, AP cannon, and halberd.
mbt has 41% resistance vs tankbuster.
mbt has -15% resistance vs AP
mbt has -50% resistance vs halberd (& saron & enforcer)

Making the numbers comparable:
1860 dps *(1-0.41)=1097 dps
2* Ap vanguard: 2075*2*1.15=4772.5
2* halberd: 2*1000*(1+0.5)=3000. Total sum: 7772.5 a noticeable improvement from your values. Keep in mind, this still goes into the directional armor of the tank.
6150/957 gives me 6.4s you used for time. That is very debatable.. upgraded vanguard reloads in 3.5s, so he almost could pull of a third shot (presuming "instant aim"..) Halberd: faster, and presuming "instant aim", I think able to get off a third shot in the 6.4s window. (first shot is at "zero time").
So, are we going for "sustained dps", or...?
Anyway, using the 6.4s regardless, it gives 1214. Higher than tankbuster..
What gives?

1) it is not really sustained dps, see text.
2) biggest difference: tankbuster is delivered by aircraft, typically firing at rear armor. This approx doubles the tankbuster damage relative to front/side vanguard-shooting.


Overall: yes I do think liberator is still to good vs tanks;
tankbuster and dalton too strong. Even the shredder shreds a skyguard shooting at liberator I think.
However, also range is a strong factor, as the shredder has damage dropoff.

I would also agree that the tankbuster attack run is more risk-taking, and more desireable gameplay than "hur hur.. lobbing dalton shells down, dealing moar damage than vanguard AP, with a 2.0125s reload".. lolwut?

Ahhh sorry my bad I didn't take into account resistance.

Assuming all calculations against a MBT resistance now then..

So in 44 rounds it would do 8376 damage, at under 50m, and take 4.4 seconds to empty it's clip for 1903 Burst DPS
So including reloads it would do 1060 Sustained DPS

To compare that against Vanguard with 2 gunners it can fire 2 AP and 2 Halberd rounds in the same time it takes to empty a tank buster clip so with 2 AP and 2 Halberd rounds it would do AP: 4772 Damage, Halberd: 3000 Damage, Total:7772 damage at all ranges
and including reloads AP: 681 Sustained DPS Halberd: 545 Sustained DPS Total: 1226 Sustained DPS

The tank buster should instead be:
215 damage < 50M to 120 damage > 300M per round (decreased to 65%)
900RPM (increased to 150%)
30 round magazine size (upgrade by 14)
3.5 second Reload Speed

So now we have
in 44 rounds it would do 5392 damage, at under 50m, and take 2.93 seconds to empty it's clip for 1840 Burst DPS
So including reloads we have 838 Sustained DPS

Now the Lib would do the same amount of burst DPS to allow quick firing runs and unload the rounds more quickly
but less total damage per round and most likely bring the tank to 60-50% HP enough to cause a lot of damage but not so much that it feels overpowered.

People seem to think I'm crying for a ubernerf of the Lib.. but I'm not, I just think it needs bringing more in line with the other vehicle weapons available, the Tank Buster is a tank buster for a reason.. but when it takes out a MBT faster than a the AP cannons.. surely you see it need it's power reducing slightly.

Tank buster: the ONLY chain-gun in game that doesn't need to be spun up.
A little odd if you ask me as it goes from not shooting to full RPM instantly and how there is really no reason to NOT use it. Perhaps a short wind up time may make it a decision of weather or not to use it.

Want to know how to beat the tank buster?
Drive in the opposite direction to the lib

BEST move in the world....Lib over shoots and then you nail it in the rear as it flies over...

Seems ok, the Lib has to position themselves pretty well to get a good shot at your **** and if you are aware of your surrounding you will probably be aware of it coming and hitting it is not to hard

I don't think the Liberator needs anymore nerfs. If anything, it needs a few buffs. The liberator is very underwhelming at the moment.

Leave the tank buster alone. If you are having trouble against it get some top armor. Did that with a skyguard. No more library problems.

very, very debatable..
are you a dalton lib vs 4 heavies with lock-ons? Yeah.. bye-bye..
Are you a dalton lib with a few tanks below you? Byebye go the tanks..

Did you bring 2 zephyr libs over an enemy base-fight? $#@stard ..

a few libs can swing a ground war far, far more than a few tanks can. (and cost the same..)
and they don't need "AV/AV" loadout to do it; basic shredder shreds vehicles fine too..

Bonus points: "expert" lib crews are better vs air than mbt's too. A tankbuster lib is a threat to other libs & even enemy galaxies. mbt's.. unless the galaxys decides to fly low not so much.
3rd gunner option, anti-air or "anti-infantry" (bulldog is quite decent at AV, needs direct hits of course..). Nr 3 can be a light assault C4 fairy

Looking at zephyr & stuff: lib can be better at anti-infantry than mbt too.. and the zephyr still gets the same resistance multipliers vs vehicles as the dalton.. "quite" a difference from AP rounds vs HE..


Name me a few things mbt's are better at than libs? Fitting through a tunnel doesn't count
If you go "resisting flak".. well, liberators need not worry from C4, AV mines, far harder to hit with AV turrets, dumbfires,..

I have hardly touched the lib at all - been with the game on and off since beta, in fact I had my first lib kill on a tank as pilot two days ago. Thats when I unlocked the buster. But I do tank a bit, not too much as I don't like the tank-meta and balance in this game - but that is another post. In my opinoin the tank-buster is ok. I have been instantkilled by it ONCE when a lib managed to sneak up on my magrider and do a 1-2 tb/dalton combo on me. Fair game in my opinion. Libs are powerful but need skill - I don't think another nerf of it is called for, the tankbuster have to land all it's shots within it's max damage range to reach it's potential and that is fairly short range it seems to me. Not having an issue with it.

EDIT: A skyguard buff against libs could be a good thing though, it feels very meh right now - unless massed ofc.

Thats the exact thing that needs to be avoided.. Yes a lib can do a lot of damage with a tank buster..but in it's current form.. it seems to be a little overpowered.. And even though I'm using MBTs as an example.. it would be the same situation as against a Galaxy or any other air vehicle.. in comparison to all other vehicles the tankbuster is out of skew with the the rest of the weapons..

You've got to remember the lib is a 3 man vehicle.. and has almost equal damage output to from just one of it's weapons as a MBT does with 2 gunners.

ohh look a guy that havent touched a lib since its major nerfbatt

Bad players learn a word or phrase that devs respond to and use it over and over again to get the things they want nerfed regardless of how the weapon actually performs,the worst part is devs actually listen to them so it only encourages them to do it more. That being said of course there are things in the game that should be changed or adjusted,mainly long range infantry AV (including G2A lock-on's and G2G lock-on's) as well as C-4 ( it's dumb that it's a high damage AV grenade available to most classes that basically negates and bypasses the need for vehicle play) These weapons are not "i-win" buttons but they break the game in such a way and shut vehicles out of close-quarters and long range fights giving opposing factions no option to approach an enemy base so that the game gets stuck with no options for attacking factions to move forward. In that case they are not fair and btw I would never ask for changes to a weapon I haven't personally used first and only if the weapon uses mechanics that are bad for for the game as a whole.

Nobody is going to complain about hornet missiles? You can do repeated runs against enemy tanks with them, get easy hits on the rear armor and you can surprise skyguards with them. In one pass you can even kill a burster max.

A liberator will get driven off by enough flak, but a hornet ESF can fly so low to the ground you don't see him till he's already fired his missiles and just as fast he's back behind the terrain where flak can't hit him.

i think the main problem is that libs are too strong. 2 shots with vanguard gives time for pilots to bail, but if u use a magrider thats 3 shots, and maybe 4 shots if they get the composite armor (-30% to tank rounds). if u make libs weaker against tank rounds (2 shot kill for ap vanguard and magrider, 3 shots for ap prowler) then its completely balanced.

u cant really hit a lib that didnt kill u with tank buster and fly over u, often they hover with dalton right above u. its really hard to hit libs because of low turret elevation and speed of tank rounds.

This thing needs to be nerfed like a horse that was beaten to death and came back from the dead to seek vengeance.

You could say that the tankbuster overshadows the other primary options for the liberator pilot a little too much. I don't recall ever being killed by a vektor or spur.