Let me Keep my old Saron and make this "new one" a seperate weapon

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Cortosis, May 22, 2013.

  1. Cortosis

    saw a post from a dev that we are simple reading your feedback in other thread :(
  2. Fenrys

    I am.
    It was nerfed, and it sucks that it was nerfed.

    It might just be the lack of coffee speaking, but I used to have faith that PS2 would someday be balanced.
    The Saron changes expose a faith-shattering level of incompetence.
    When it comes to broken weapons, I'm now more interested in getting a refund than I am in getting them fixed.
    • Up x 1
  3. loleator

    • Up x 2
  4. Fenrisk

    • Up x 2
  5. DesertGunBunny

    I'm not usually one to complain about the changes but the Saron changes kinda broke the gun for me. Its really the lost of the AOE component on it. I loved that it was hard to shoot but did some awesome damage if it hit. Its now completely useless vs infantry because you have to get a direct hit on something. I also kinda liked the idea that it was a one shot reload mechanic too.

    I had been looking forward to actually buying the Saron-H and was about to buy SC for full price, but now with the changes I'm just gonna wait for a triple SC day and use the PPA instead on both my mag and my harasser.

    I will say I do like the suggestion made over on this thread: https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...-the-saron-enforcer-complaint-threads.128263/

    A switchable mode that allows for both fire types would be kinda a great mid ground I feel.

    Thank you.
  6. eabos

    As I said earlier, massive combat alone cannot keep this game afloat, just like it couldn't save PS1 from it's blundering dev team. And here we are again, servers merging because people are leaving for other games because SOE learned nothing from the mistakes of the past. Yeah, big battles are cool, but if the mechanics are so awkward and frustrating that it becomes more effort than it's worth to play, then yeah, it's time for another game with a smaller population, which, if it's fun, it really all it comes down to. Driving a tank in BF3 is fun, if not downright hilarious at times, and it doesn't matter that there aren't 2000 people on the server, because it's not like I am fighting all of them at once anyway, in fact, the number of combatants is really irrelevant in planetside anyway, not like there are so many varieties of combat to get involved in, especially now with the lattice where the flow of the game is funneled down to zerg vs zerg face punching contests.

    And I am not the kind of person who will cheer when something from one of the other factions gets nerfed. I have always preferred that if something is strong, you make a counter to it, or make the other teams equivalent just as strong. It's one of the things that drove me from PS1, things got nerfed to the point where it no longer came to a matter of skill, but determination, and here's SOE going down the same road, seemingly oblivious to their own failure. I do not want PS2 to fail, believe me, when I heard PS2 was on the way I was all about it because I do love the massive feel to it, but again it comes to fun, and also respect. SOE cannot take a massive dump on it's players and expect them to stick around, especially when they tried it before and failed miserably. This is the second server merge and those of us who lived through PS1 know what this means, the beginning of the end. More and more things will get changed and nerfed as the devs listen to the vocal minority of players who cling to this game til the bitter end. Just like PS1.
  7. Madmojo

    It puts the old Saron back on the magrider.
  8. Fenrys

    Or else it gets the supercollider?
  9. KlyptoK

    Get Out.

    They didn't change the Scattercannon into a sniper rifle or an Anti-Air gun. That change isn't even noteworthy compared to the tank secondary changes.

    All of the tank secondary changes (or lack thereof) have been a disaster.
  10. S0LAR15

    Close this, hotfix tomo is rectifying the problem.
    • Up x 1
  11. The King

    It'll be a useful weapon tomorrow again.
    Now, I'll have a reason to use it..
  12. illgot

    or it gets the hose again!
  13. Tbone

    Sorry guys but i still don't get it.Again i am not the jejj VS got nerf type no.I just see reason and balance in this.And i think you will see it when you try it out in real battle not VR training.

    So let me get this straight:

    • Slight redesign of HRB. It can now rapid fire several shots before reloading. It is pin-point accurate on the first shot, but the cone of fire blooms significantly after the first shot. This allows it to ‘unload’ on targets at close range for a faster TTK. TTK at medium to long range should remain the same when waiting for the cone of fire to reset.
    • New description: “The Saron HRB fires fast and accurate armor damaging beams. Accuracy of the HRB decreases significantly for half a second after each shot. VS use only.”
      • Removed firing delay
      • Magazine size increased from 1 to 6
      • Added Fire Rate of 200ms
      • Direct hit damage per shot decreased from 1500 to 425
      • Increased projectile speed from 250 to 300
      • Max ammo capacity increased from 30 to 180
        • Amount granted from Ammo Capacity Certs increased from 3 to 6 per rank.
      • Added cone of fire bloom per shot of 6
      • Added max cone of fire of 6
      • Added cone of fire recovery of 6 in 0.5 seconds
      • Reduced effectiveness of AoE sense it can be spammed against infantry more
        • Inner blast damage decreased from 750 to 350
        • Inner blast radius decreased from 1 meter to 0.5 meters
        • Outer blast radius decreased from 3 meters to 2 meters

    So the problem is that it's still an AT gun a SECONDARY AT gun that is pin-point accurate at the firs shot and then it's not that accurate? Against a tank which is big.A blind guy could hit that tank.Okay not from long range but that's what the main gun's for.Okay it's DMG is 425 but you can fire six shots against a big tank.Even with the bloom you can hit a tank at "close range". You know , combined with the main gun like a vulcan (its close range too). So you problem is that you can not snipe infantry with ease.Please with the main guns you can ,if you can hit the target.Its an AT gun, it was an AT gun ,it will be an AT gun.It's basic function has not changed.Okay its a rapid fire gun now . Don't squeeze the mouse button so hard.Short controlled bursts. Projectile speed has increased so it will be there faster, max ammo 180,yeah decreased AoE but its a beam so its okay.So basically your problem is that this AT weapon is not an AI sniper rifle anymore???And you paid for an AI sniper AT gun.Or if you are skilled enough it is.Because not everybody runs with 100% HP all the time.For instance we need 11 shot from a volcan to kill an infantry you only need 6.

    So correct me if i am wrong but i don't see a big problem here just people who don't want to get used to this.And pls refund is a good idea but they will not give it to us.My grounder rocket launcher was 1000cp and now its 250cp again correct me if i am wrong.But i didn't yell for refund.It's a beta yeah the released it but seriously it's abet with these changes and ideas.And in a beta everything is subject to change.It's a fu..ing thing to do i know,but there are some people who deal with it and continue playing because its a good game especially with your friends and outfit and there are those who want to leave and i understand them too,but first try to deal with it and if you can't if you feel that you can't then yeah time to leave.
  14. Puppy

    I didn't want my vehicle sniper to turn into a vehicle assault rifle... They should at least ask us about it? :c
  15. Nickb

    In the old situation a skilled or seasoned tank driver/ gunner combination would mostly go for the main gun in an anti-personnel version and the Gunners gun as the Saron hrb against tanks. That would get you the best of both worlds. My driver would primarily engage infantry from both far away and close by. I would engage tanks and occasional AV-turrets or stationary base defenses from a spot where we would actually have a chance of winning, not get slaughtered by having to get close. This new situation forces us to get close to be effective with the Saron-HRB. Thus making us much more vulnerable and losing much more of the fights making the tank much less effective overall.

    Sometimes we would break from this configuration and both go Anti tank. Main gun and gunner gun. Then, that would be a choice which made us very vulnerable for infantry, but knowingly and acting accordingly. Now we can't be an effective tankhunter even if we opt for this choice, because we are forced to get close to be effective. One shot with my gun from afar does 425 damage, which isnt even 28% of the damage we used to do. Even if you time your shots correctly from a far, still the total damage over time doesnt even get close to what it used to be, again making us less effective by far.
    You are absolutely correct on this one, we are more effective at close range, please mind the words defined, close range which is now less than 15 meters. This makes the magrider more dangerous close range, but against a prowler with similar configuration (vulcan in gunner position) still no match for the prowler. Not to start about the vanguard which also has the ability to always point his front end armor towards us, ensuring an easy victory. Yes, the magrider is more effective at close range, but not in terms of effectiveness versus other main battle tanks. Toe to toe, we would still lose most of the fights.
    I would gladly invite you to make a VS character and try it in VR with a friend or someone else. please mind that VR is a controlled situation where you dont have to worry about moving tanks or the unpredictable behaviour of other people thus not making it very representative for real combat. You will see it's near-impossible to be effective at longer ranges (more than 50 meters) even if you do time your shots correctly. Please also take into consideration the psychological function of getting hit - if you get hit 4 times by the Saron and see your heath drop, you will move the tank or at least try to repair it, sometimes using 2 engineers makes repairing faster than a magrider can do damage with the Saron now. VR doesnt account for that as well. I would like to hear your opinion about this when you have tried so.
    I assume I have pointed or at least hinted out the problem more than elaborately enough now. Part of winning battles is taking into consideration your own strong points and the enemy's weak points. By using your strong ones and the enemies weak points you win these little mini-games in combat by just using your brain's common sense area. If people on the other side use just that they will be able to win from magrider driver/gunner duo's most of the time. We've really lost our edge on almost all area's with this change. My driver can't rely on me to be a professional gunner against tanks anymore because the shots I fire aren't doing the trick they used to do, they are not making holes in the enemy's armor, and certainly not from more than 15 meters away.
    Like I have said in my last post, I didn't even start on the notion of a refund and i do not intend on it just because I am not agreeing on something. I want to point out the logic and consequences of this change that are not contributing into a balanced situation -again thats solely my opinion, but a lot of other seem to share it with me- I don't want to draw conclusions on why a certain change has been made and why this is the way the new Saron is going to be, but you can't pass this off as an Anti-tank weapon anymore. This does not shred through tank, it does more of a "small amount of damage on tanks per shot, and if you are close, its moderately effective against tanks" But brannding guns is a whole other discussion which is much more subject to perception and cultural understandings of linguistics and definitions which I do not want to dive deeper into.

    I want to conclude this post with noting this has been an effort pointing out the serious gaps in logic and balance regarding the changes made in the Saron-HRB.

    If someone would like an even more elaborate explanation with moving images and examples if this isn't clear enough in any way, I would be more than happy to do so.
    -Only if that would make people consider otherwise and agree with me that changes to this weapon should be reverted or changed into a state where everyone can agree on it that it should be classified as an Anti Tank weapon again-

    Thank you for reading this if you did.

    As I was typing this post I just found out that there is a hotfix regarding this weapon which promises the following

    Saron HRB
    • COF Max reduced from 6 to 2 (recovery rate changed from 12 to 4)
    • Changed to semi-automatic fire instead of full auto
    • Inner Blast damage increased from 350 to 850.
    Will check this out before making another post about it.
    • Up x 2
  16. Cortosis

    Saron HRB
    • COF Max reduced from 6 to 2 (recovery rate changed from 12 to 4)
    • Changed to semi-automatic fire instead of full auto
    • Inner Blast damage increased from 350 to 850.
    This is a decent change from the original saron different but still feels like my old weapon.

    Just want to say thanks for the support of everyone in this thread.

    But also im very worried now that if they went as changed a weapon that much once what weapon will be next, will our bolt actions become semi-autos and will our pump actions become smgs? i feel like pandoras box has been opening if they feel they can get away with completely changing the very essence of a weapon.
  17. Nickb

    Without going into too much detail, but the gun cannot be classified as an Anti tank weapon anymore. Even after the hotfix

    It currently excels at taking out infantry, even better than the PPA (which also had a redesign to make it a more viable choice but still nobody uses it).

    To the devs, please at the very least reconsider and change the saron back to what we were promised, An Anti-Tank weapon instead of this anti-infantry/ mediocre anti-tank-close-range-only-weapon. Make this into a whole new weapon or a hybrid whatever, but give us our anti-tank gunner weapon back.
  18. Bindlestiff

    To back up my hard stance in this thread on the need for the old Saron to return, this hotfix has gone too much the other way now. I will re-iterate my words from another thread:

    Please return the Saron (and Enforcer) to pre-GU09 state, for the good of the game for ALL factions.
  19. Bindlestiff

    Really, no. It wasn't nerfed because nerfs / buffs apply to the same weapon. This is not the same weapon, not even close. Polar opposites. It was fundamentally changed.