I had fun last night and I think I know why

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Captain Kid, Jul 9, 2014.

  1. Captain Kid

    Emerald; a random base somewhere on Hossin or maybe Amerish.

    I was not the only one having fun; several people in general chat commented it was a fun fight.
    I was wrecking my brains why I was having fun and why it so rarely happens and most fights are frustrating and giving me the feeling I suck. This base was just as poorly build as any other. I was using the same weapons. I had the same crappy frames per second.

    I did not suck during that fight; killing several people in one life happened often. I outflanked and out aimed several enemies. Even playing engineer I was viable against enemy heavies. There was some kind of dynamic front line. The point was flipped often. It was glorious. I only have fights like that one hour out of hundred.

    I finally figured out what made this fight different when it stopped being fun.
    Enemy air and tanks were moving in on the base. People were already complaining in chat; they obviously knew before me what that meant.

    Cutting off our freedom to move in on the enemy. enemy snipers could not be hunted down any more.
    We were back to trying to take cover and taking pot shots at the enemy like most other fights seem to be. No more quickly scanning the environment for enemies, taking position. moving in at the enemy trying to flank them. Once again random deaths happened often and made people take shelter at random almost. In other words; the fight was ruined and we were back to normal Planetside 2 game play.

    I don't know if vehicles themselves are to blame or the lack of cover. Maybe we shouldn't let vehicles be able to shell inside a base period. I don't know.

    All I know there is a glorious game hidden somewhere in this showing itself very very rarely.
    • Up x 20
  2. andy_m

    As an infantry only player I should plus one the OP, but I am afraid that, love it or hate it, air and armour is part of this game.

    Enjoy the air/armour free time when you can, I know I do :D
    • Up x 5
  3. CrashB111

    I feel no sympathy for Infantryside. The biggest threat to my Tank is, and always will be, Infantry AV weapons. You would think you little bastards would be happy I was running a dual AV setup to hunt other tanks.
    • Up x 13
  4. KendoPS1

    Yep, infantry fights without vehicles are the most fun for me too. There should be a lot more bases with proper cover.

    I'm not saying completely cut off vehicles however, but currently it's not balanced.
    • Up x 8
  5. Stormsinger

    You raise a few interesting points here, I would like to respond to a few of them.

    If people were complaining about advancing vehicles in chat, this means they probably had time to counter them. This can be anything from pulling vehicles of your own, repairing base turrets and returning fire, setting up AV turrets, pulling heavies, setting up max ambush points - complaining about advancing armor instead of working to counter it is why fights like this are dominated so rapidly. Infantry are the foundation of any force in planetside 2. Infantry cannot easily withstand an armor column without armor of it's own, air cannot bomb enemy positions without cover, support, or overwhelming numbers, etc.

    You just defined the basic strategy for taking a base. In a roughly even fight, one side will look for a way to overpower the other. Pulling armored support for a firepower boost is intended, although I do admit that the complete lack of specialization in PS2 allows for too many tanks / resource-based vehicles to be pulled at once. Everyone can do everything with enough certs. I fully support the combined arms aspect of the game, but there are, perhaps, a few too many tanks in play.

    Look at Esamir bases, they arent typically shelled by Armor... look what it took to get them to that point. It feels like a prison planet - all it needs to complete the 'arctic starship troopers' feel is a few sundy-sized bugs. If you want completely vehicle-less combat, try biolabs. The thing to note here, is that platoon leaders in general hate biolabs, they are an infantry v infantry black hole of personnel, and they continue to attract players until 200v200 fights nearly crash the server. (I play on Emerald, during prime time... huge pops at biolabs seem common.) This is what armorless, airless fights create - the major stalemate-breakers I see are massive armor / air pushes closing down the surrounding bases, infantry vs infantry doesn't typically pull off a successful win / defense without major resource / vehicle / max involvement.

    Just a few thoughts, the issue is not an easy one to address. The resource revamp is in on test, perhaps that will address a few issues.
    • Up x 8
  6. Torok

    One day we'll have both Dome shields and more resilient deployed sunderers.

    That is the day I'm looking forward.
    • Up x 3
  7. LodeTria

    If you want to exclude vehicles from bases completely with shields or what-have-you, then the number of bases needs to be cut to a quarter of what it is now. You shouldn't be able to run on foot from base to base if you're also immune to anything but infantry in them.
    • Up x 1
  8. Casterbridge

    Vehicles shouldn't be excluded from fights, or even base fights, but infantry should be relatively safe from armor while within the actual buildings and interior points, if I have to get to a point in a different building I should have to face armor and air to do so, but once I make it to the building I shouldn't have to be worried about being shelled anymore, and some points should have routes, even if they are a bit roundabout, to get to other points with relatively little vehicle interference.

    In addition vehicles need to have more of a purpose to fight one another whether be a special generator, point, attacking some kind of resource transport whatever.
    • Up x 1
  9. Copasetic

    Then what are you saying?

    I mean I'm not against excluding vehicles from base fights if that's what it takes to make infantry more fun, but there has to be some tradeoff for that. Some area where vehicles get to have their fun without infantry whining about it or decimating whole armor columns. The logical area for that would be the fight from one base to the next, but there isn't enough space between bases and infantry can just redeploy past the gaps anyway. It's not a simple problem.

    I think the ideal solution is to keep vehicles involved in base fights like they are now but motivate the defenders to push back with vehicles of their own, even if they have to deploy to a different nearby base to do it. The first major change there will be to make MBTs spawnable at all bases, because the defenders have no hope of countering enemy armor if they can't even pull proper tanks of their own.

    Beyond that the resources changes are going to make the biggest difference. People aren't going to have a bunch of tank resources collecting dust on them, pulling a tank will mean sacrificing infantry consumables or MAX units to do it. That should make them think twice before pulling an MBT as a disposable ride to the next base.
  10. Cinnamon

    Double xp events are the worst for bad infantry fights with lots of annoying people bragging about how much they are farming. It's like being sober and dealing with people binge drinking.
    • Up x 2
  11. Captain Kid

    I can agree with that. IF AMS are either less easy to blow up (by infantry at least) or cost no resources. Or both.

    Perhaps, yet again, we should take a look at Planetside 1. I don't think vehicles were as big as an issue as in this game. I'm talking about between bases.
    And they didn't even cost resources!
    • Up x 1
  12. Iridar51

    I've been saying this for a year now, and people always looked at me weirdly "duh Iridar why u hate vehicles so much". That's why. Because every fight without them is much more enjoyable.
    That's like saying to players: "no, you can't eat your candy before you eat a bucket of cow turd".

    Fine, let them be a part of the game. Just at least remove dedicated AI weapons from them, give them something to do besides farming infantry, and cover bases with dome shields, and be done with it.

    They want to play their WoT - let them. And it can't ever be anything besides WoT. Because as soon as player says "I need a tank to deal with infantry" is the moment he says "I'm too lazy to get good enough to challenge infantry as equals, so I will use this crutch, the easy way out".

    Let vehicles be an important part of the game, for fights BETWEEN bases, not fights FOR bases. As soon as that Sunderer hits the dome shield interior, it's up to infantry to repel the assault, and it's tanks' job not to let that Sunderer make it inside. There, everyone is happy, tankers can play their WoT, infantry can play infantryside, MAXes are still available for those who need crutches, and both infantry and vehicles are still equally important, everybody is happy, Olympics are won and Christmas is saved.

    I wouldn't even mind then if vehicles were ten times stronger against infantry then they are now, so it would be clear - you need a a vehicle to deal with vehicles. It wouldn't matter, as long as vehicles can't affect the outcome of a base fight.

    This solution is so obvious and has been brought up so many times, and yet we're still stuck with HE cannons. SOE feels like Blizzard, it also takes them forever to implement desperately needed changes. Whenever I read WoW's patch notes I think "well that's good, but why this hasn't been done 2 years ago?".
    • Up x 2
  13. Codex561

    I am perhaps a very appreciated player when it comes to this:
    As an infantry player, my main objective is to try to c4 armor.
    As a tanker, my main objective is to take out armor and dispatch aircraft
    As a pilot my priority is to take out liberators, ESFs and then tanks.
    Rarely do I farm infantry.
  14. Rager

    I agree with this, as a guy who plays off and on since the start. It sucks reading chat, GET OUT YOUR TANKS AND TAKE BIO. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU. As my team just stays in tanks.
  15. Spacelife

    When I play vanguard I have a tendency to flank, and while infantry are a huge threat, I'd say that the random liberator that ALWAYS sees me and parks right on top of my head is the bigger threat.
  16. Sixstring

    So basically another vehicle whine thread? If you have a problem with vehicles deal with it,if anything vehicles need more access to bases for the oppurtunity to break the near impenetrable defense of a zerg. Vehicles need to feel like powerhouses,feared by infantry instead of their current state of cert pinatas. When vehicles roll up the infantry zerg should no longer be viable either the defenders pull their own vehicles or lose the base. Higby said infantry AV was getting nerfed after the recent tank nerf,well it better be a significant enough nerf to discourage the hoards of HA and LA's from being the go to counter for any vehicle. I'm talking a resource cost for rockets and a damage(only towards vehicles) and range nerf. as well as a damage reduction for C-4. There are just too many people playing a game like this at once to limit tanks so much and give infantry so much free power. People should be able to play infantry exclusively if they wish but expect to get rolled over when the MAX's and tanks show up. Vehicles and armor should overcome population and numbers end of story.
    • Up x 2
  17. Pirbi

    There are already enough arena shooters. Combined arms make the game interesting and fun and more than a twitch match.
    • Up x 9
  18. Yaesu

    My favorite thing to do, as an Engineer, was to jump on a quad from a nearby base, head to the base being attacked, circle it hunting Sundies and other armor. Since the nerfing of the AV turrets that's all but a joke now. The latest thing we've been doing, and it's been working out really well, is grouping 1 to 3 heavies, a medic, and an engineer from a nearby base and heading 'on foot' to the base under attack(unless it quite far away.). Vehicles attract to much attention. There, use the hills, trees, whatever for cover. Start on the nearest armor. It's also very important that all your heavies and the engineer work on one vehicle at a time. They go really quick. Your medic doubles as heals and look-out, watching for armor sneaking up from the sides or from behind.

    You really need to have voice/vent. Get a good group and it is a blast!
    • Up x 1
  19. andy_m

    I agree, but, as I said, air/armour is part of the game, so I'm off to eat my bucket of cow turd. After that, I get me some candy.
  20. aXaStark

    See, this is the problem. You know why I insist on having anti-infantry secondaries? It's because the biggest threat to me is infantry. I can spot a tank from a mile away and manouvre accordingly. I can anticipate shells and I can flank or flee. But I can't evade infantry. I don't know where that random LA will fly in from (and it's not like my tank can climb mountains so I'm usually stuck in a valley) and I don't know where that heavy will pop out from. I can be sure, however, that in any big battle, which is what I look for, there will be LAs and heavies and MAXes shooting me from every single direction, engis suiciding on me with tank mines, every class except MAX and infie could C4 me. And to compound the whole problem I can be absolutely sure that there will NEVER be a shortage of resources limiting the onslaught of infantry against my tank.

    The dumbest thing a tanker can do is leave himself defenseless against infantry. The smartest thing a tanker can do is minimize TTK against infantry at mid range.

    Infantryside players keep saying we need to nerf tanks because tanks usually roll with potent AI loadouts. But they don't seem to understand that the whole reason tanks need to have those loadouts is that infantry is a huge threat to tanks.
    • Up x 2