How to counter VS alert domination?

this is a player-driven kind of imbalance, it has nothing to do with where the OP weapons are, it's all about where they are believed to be.

btw

Those devs that made the "LMG changes" patch that was not pushed live for unknown reasons, and a lot of players (myself included, even if I main Vanu from time to time) think Orion and BG are not so balanced when compared to MSW-R/Anchor for CQC.

so you have an imbalance factor that is known by a huge amount of players, concerning the most used class, using the most used weapons, suited for the most common fight setting.

then you have a darker camo that is believed by some to be better in some settings (since ps2 release the VS camo has been made less dark, while NC and TR ones have been made darker, all for balance reasons).
then you have no bullet drop which makes VS guns slightly more accurate (to a point it's not even noticeable, but still) than a gun with same stats but bullet drop.

it's all a matter of context. if flying sunderers were a thing, Striker would probably be considered the best ESRL. If assault rifles were the most used weapons then TR would probably be the most skilled-players-filled empire. same with SMGs and NC.

in the last year, Vanu won 40.2% alerts, TR won 31.8% and NC 25.1%.

Emerald VS may have some top players, but they've actually been losing more primetime alerts since the update with the new MBT/H weapons. I think they're 2nd or last now?

I would say the one Empire thing that matters the most is HA default weapons.
VS has 0.75 ADS movement or 50% faster than other factions.
TR is the middle of the road and NC has the hardest noob weapon to use.

Empire benefit wise on a macro scale you will see this:
VS - Easier
TR - Average
NC - Hard

So if you are a noob and VS or TR infantry. Its easier to down a fellow noob on NC rather than the other factions.
A balance to address this Empire thing would be to put the VS HA Orion on a 0.5 ADS and in return increase its magazine size a bit and swap the NC SAW with the EM1 or maybe the EM6. I think every Empires default HA should be ease of use, rather than potential top tier. In ether NC or VS case both of those sides players would have other options anyway. The NC could just unlock the SAW again or get the EM6 (EM1 being default) and the VS could just unlock the SVA-88 if they wanted a "Orion with 0.75 ADS". Everybody else that also want 0.75 ADS can use the NS-15M. (That said, I actually want 0,75 guns that are TR and NC only as well. Maybe a MSW-R-2 and a GD-22...2? (both with a bit more recoil, but 0,75 ADS multiplier) )

Easy answer:

Git Gud. The ability to cooperate, and not suck at the game plays a vastly more important role than slight weapon (im)balance between the factions.

BS, in a macro sense were player numbers count more its not JUST that.
If noobs join a faction and they think the other factions weapons are better for whatever reason they cant explain. They rather join that faction. We know its because of easy of use and stuff like 0,75 ADS movement, but even a noob can feel it.

This over time creates a thing were more people stick to one faction over another.
Thats why you see more people going VS rather than other.

The "I join NC because of the Vanguard or VS because of the Magrider or joined the TR because of the Mossy" or similar are in the minority.

No, it really comes down to how well the players on a faction plays. Maybe some are attracted by the weapons on one empire or another, but the weapons themselves are not what wins a faction an alert. being in the right places at the right times is what matters, not whether or not you have some, and I quote someone from NC here, "fancy dragon *****" as a weapon. If you're in the wrong place, it really doesn't matter what weapons you have, you're not furthering the effort to win an alert.

Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool I can tell you're not a vanu player.

The main reason that factions wins in PS2 is numbers.
Its only if the numbers are equal that larger organization comes into play with some level of success.
Its the easy of use that keeps noobs on some factions rather than other and in turn its that effect that gives a general pop advantage over time.

Its not about if a pro NC can beat a pro VS player with a SAW or similar.
Its about macro effects on masses of people.

Then why do you complain so much? VS are the least likely to be overpop at prime time on Miller, -especially- today (sunday = nc overpop/zerg day). So if VS are still winning more alerts at prime time (which I don't think we are as of late), it's really down to playing for the alert win, not because some weapon attracted n00bs (if anything having noobs is a massive detriment to winning anything).

Let me ask you something, what outfit are you in, if any? I'm curious to see what part of Miller NC you're in.

First of all. Unlike you, my comment history is open and anyone can read it. I talk about balance regardless of faction.
That you want try to skew a balance point over towards some character attacks is just low bar.

Secondly, anyone can look me up on PlanetSide 2 players... if I was in an Outfit at the moment it would have been stated there.
As for legacy, I am a former Renegade Legion player and played with them in PS1 from their early days and while I would never claim to be a top tier fpser, specially within that crowd, I am nether some random noob that doesnt know what they are talking about.

So in short, you can take your thinly veiled insinuated insults and shove em up your ***.
Stick to the issue being debated instead of side tracking with other BS!

It's not? Been so long since I ever really looked into the forum settings I honestly don't remember. But do you really want to dig through 6500++ posts? Hah.

Also, what character attacks? That NC on Miller zergs every sunday?

There's no automation that someone has the same forum and in game character name, more the opposite.

Anyway, even if you're not "some random noob" doesn't mean you actually have the right perspective, or sufficient information to draw these conclusions.

While I was deliberately rude in my first post I did reply directly to the topic at hand: The solution to "solve the VS alert domination" is simply put to "git gud". What it isn't is to complain at the weapon (im)balance, for the simple reason that while it may tip the scales in a 1v1 honorbru infantry duel it matters little when the big determining factor is how, when and where a faction uses their players. What base to attack, with how many, and by which method, when to give up a base, and so on and so forth.

So I did in fact address the thread topic, both here and in my first post. That you don't like the answer is none of my concern.

The problem lies between the amount of experienced players, fun, and which empire's weapons are easiest to control. A fresh and popular example is the Orion, and it is so damn easy to control that everyone says it's OP. And of course, everyone loves LAZERS. Which appeals to the better skilled players the best, and it's fun to play because of how easy it is to dominate others with such weapons. TR and NC are so similar aside from certain distinct features, that it looks like NC weapons are exactly the same aside from the NC's revolutionary colors to the dark and red of the TR. Make the two damn factions have different looks, at this point, it looks EXACTLY the same. Second thing is to switch starter weapons to other current weapons, such as the most famous for being crappy to new players, THE NC GAUSS SAW! Does and newbie know how to even LEAD targets, much less to even aim well? Most situations are very vividly obvious to be low-med range, and very little of long range. To the new player, it is EXTREMELY hard to use, why did you even bother giving it at the start? It should be a weapons for more skilled players in the FIRST PLACE.

Which is why people use it-.. oh wait. If people are even remotely able to aim their weapons they can just kill people with normal weapons. The Lasher is a 1 trick pony, and the trick isn't actually that good. Just special.

Let's not pretend the trick isn't effective. I've been on both the receiving and giving end of that thing. NO ONE is going to step into the doorway with an endless stream of lasher orbs flowing from it. And between that fire rate and a 75 round magazine default, it's near endless. Not the greatest 1v1, but it's an incredible suppression and psychological tool. Practically a flame thrower with a long range option.

Besides that, after playing extensively as a VS, I can confirm (on Emerald) that TR are largely bad players, NC are an odd mix of bads and greats but at least they're aggressive or clever, and the VS players generally understand what their classes special features are and use them. It's hard to get blindsided by hostiles when your team is dropping motion sensors/darts all over the place and you actually pay attention to the mini map. Ammo is never an issue because boxes are wherever and engi had a moment to stand still. TR players simply don't do any of this. I've even seen too many run up to a burning sunderer, switch to another kit, and run away to get killed again. Far fewer VS players are likely to do this. Others that don't are playing point defense, watching for movement from the most likely angle of attack. Again... TR don't even TRY to guard the sunderer. They barely know how to push against an enemy force, often preferring to buckle and cower to protect their precious, most likely already abysmal K/D. I can't speak an accurate opinion of my view of them on this forum without getting banned.

This isn't a solo game. The chances of success for the individual greatly increase when they concern themselves with the success of the team. I love TR's guns, but their players? Even if they had the Orion, Blueshifts, and Vanguard or Magrider as options they'd still get vaporized. I can't perform at my fullest because the average TR will drag my performance down to 30%-50% by proxy, and I'm not one to hide in a corner and shoot peeps in the back for easy K/D bloat. So when the team does bad, *I* do bad. And if I'm doing bad, I'm not having any fun.

Seriously TR, step it up. You don't get to complain about balance if you can't even get the basics of game play right.

It really isn't. It's ok at the one thing it does, for which it gives up being useful at -everything- else. If it was glorious at the one thing it does then it would be different but at most it's "ok".

That does pretty much align itself with what I said earlier: it's the players on the different factions that determine their strengths, not the weapons.

Oh boy I have bursted with laughter after reading this. Thank you.

But really, it's just DIG who got the massive numbers to operate and coordinate. Most of their players are quite average, but they win in numbers. Besides that's the same thing that ORBS doing for NC, so they actually getting some alerts won as well. As for TR... too scattered with few decent leaders. I do remember we won alerts during primetime only when MM, ELME and MOO got united as one strike force, there we had some results and alerts won. As now, we, MM, trying to do something valuable during alerts, but most often getting outnumbered by larger forces. Other TRs fighting elsewhere and don't respond for reinforcements calls.

That's a thing I like about DIG actually. Most of the time they will respond to requests for help, and generally (not always) try to work with the rest of VS.

I think we all should agree that Vanu wins more because they have a different pro/noob population ratio when compared to TR and NC. I wouldn't be surprised to see some data concerning faction specific accuracy or k/d ratio showing what I said, I mean, just compare KPU of betelgeuse with any other LMG for BR 100s.




The average BR100 BG guy is pretty much TWO TIMES better than the average TR/NC at killing. it means the weapon is unbalanced, or the players are just exceptionally better than TR and NC ones. the truth is in the middle, BG is not that unbalanced, but that little is enough to attract those players who would care enough about winning to by-pass the purple spandex anti-noobs shield. Vanu is clearly designed to attract a competitive player archetype, it's the only faction that got a 1vs1 LMG as starting weapon for the most used class in the game. And the 0.75% ads combined with top tier dps/ttk avaiable to LMGs is an obvious appeal for those who have learnt the importance of movement after they learnt to aim properly (aka very good players).

on the other hand, TR got more ammos on less accurate guns and NC got shotguns...see a pattern there?

so as I said, it's all about context, in the current PS2 iteration the HA class is the most used by those who win the alerts and server smashes. it means "good" players roll HA more often than any other class, and what faction has the "best" HA, even if not by a lot? they roll Vanu, adapt and learn how to Orion/BG properly, and they make the guns appear very much more unbalanced than what it would be in an even-skill field confrontation.
a good solution would be to better distribute the "good players" between classes, by increasing the skill ceiling of non HA roles.

If k/d ration never mattered in fps games we probably would be enjoing a very better planetside experience, but we are still biased

Increasing the skill ceiling of non-HA won't precisely mitigate the HA's main draw - that shield. Any class can flank. Any class can shoot for the head. Only the HA can increase their durability considerably. This is exasperated by the fact that, with few exceptions, they don't have to reload as often as any other class either.

The only real disadvantages they have are that they can't go invisible or fly. Reviving people and dropping ammo boxes is hardly an advantage worth mentioning for the Medic and Engineer, respectively. At least the Engineer gets a carbine, which is the best form of CQC weapon short of an SMG or shotgun. Rifles are middle of the road and only really excel over LMGs and carbines at ranges where most killing doesn't happen. And by excel I mean lands negligibly more shots while sitting still to even hit anything, but still isn't likely to kill, and sniper rifles would be more comfortable to use (and the main danger.)

If you can't beat'em join em.... balanced.

Unless its your view of course. Then its fine and the "correct view", but otherwise character attacks are okay. /sarcasm
LoL, I am just going to do myself a favor and put ******** like you on ignore...