How to appeal Medic to the playerbase?

Medikits and Resto kits are cheap as **** with current ressource system. They have "just" 4 uses, but still are paired with passive regen and implant, if you wish to! A Heavy is best suited for 1v1, and thats ok, but a heavy does not get into real (health) disadvantage compared to all other classes thanks to kits. Even worse if the heavy has resist shield. The next encounter should punish him, a) time (shield is up 100% at 10s, health then starts regen with implant/Biobonus) or b) leave him with less effective HP, unless teamwork is involved.

I play medic a lot, and i do heal and healbeam on assaulting heavies. Sometimes this helps them to survive. But when i see them chugging their medkits i ask myself: Am i only here to clean the floor (revive)?

I play medic a lot and yes, with the current tools we got, medic are only here to revive allies.
Since there are no other loots or ability available, you can just specialize on reviving allies.

HA and medkit are annoying, but the real problem come from the medic who lack versatility : can you chose a loadout to keep your allies alive instead of reviving ? Can you chose a loadout more focused on combat than reviving ?
No, because the only tool available is focused on revive and the ability are almost useless.

You'll find tools&ability ideas for the medic here.

Sounds as if we have a general consensus here regarding the problems facing medics. Specifically:
1) Far less recognition for our primary function compared straight kill-whoring.
2) An appalling lack of flexibility - either we heal or we revive, both of which aren't necessary due to other options (ex. med kits and Sunderers), and anywhere else we're a 3rd-rate substitute for some other class.
3) Heavy Assault is simply too good at too many things and doesn't need any support to reach that ability.

Recognition is the easiest of the problems to solve. Instead of just K/D, add tracking on the in-game resources for revives/ repairs/ heals/ spotting, etc per life and add break down a characters xp gains over their lifetime by type. That is something we can do on our own but of course would be best done by Daybreak.

Flexibility requires new abilities. We've had plenty of those recommended. Personally I've proposed a reworks for our active abilities that grants the medic both more flexibility and more ability to stand by himself/ herself when needed and a rework of Triage to make it actually useful & desirable for medics. Others have suggested medical bags that can be dropped, new modes for the medical application that provide boosts, and plenty of other ideas. Getting said ideas implemented however is going to more of a fight. Not only because we have to convince the under-manned staff available to sink time into new toys for an infrequently played (and thus less profitable) class, but we have to shout down the "medics are fine, now be my personal heal bot" crowd.

Rebalancing Heavy Assault however is going to be a complete mess. We're talking about making less effective what is the most popular class and for many people is their ticket to an ego-boosting KDR. Even more so since the chief source of imbalance is their overshield which in many ways defines the class. Yet in the process offers no downsides for many upsides compared to, for example, LA jetpacks (CoF shot to hell save Carbines), cloaking (no weapons use until turned off), and even our vaunted self-heal (extends TTK by maybe 1 or 2 bullets). Nor is "well buff the other abilities" (otherwise known as "don't nerf me bro!") an option as that way lies massive power creep which requires bringing everything else up in terms of power, and so on in a never-ending cycle. I've see what that does to a game and it is NOT a road we want to start down.

PS1's equivalent - an implant known as Personal Shield - was less of a headache to face due to its mechanic where damage went to stamina (used to determine how long you could run, jump, and use other implants), and when you lost stamina you lost your ability to run, jump, and use other implants until it regenerated. Not to mention that the more you moved around while using it the faster it dropped and less damage it could absorb due to also expending stamina. So using Personal Shield was a decision where you had to balance if the extra damage absorption was worth the loss of mobility. When it was ported over however someone forget to also import the downsides so what we have is for all intents a massive free health boost available on demand with little cool down..

The best fix I can see would be to make Resist shield the default. Since its only a 40% reduction and doesn't stack with other damage reductions, its far less of a headache to confront. Plus Daybreak seems to recognize that straight up health boost abilities tend to be problematic (see Vanguard Shield: with it up tank at times seems broken, without it tank is underwhelming - due to change to a % damage reduction ability) so getting the problem recognized is more likely. Adrenaline shield could remain mostly as-is but with a much shorter duration, while Nanite Mesh would be changed the most. Instead it gains increased ability to absorb damage but at the price of deactivating the users weapons while its up. Thus the heavy no longer as the choice of "consistent I-win button, I-win button that can be up more often, and so-so ability that really doesn't seem to help that much", but rather a default option useful in all situations but no longer a "oops, I win" button, one requiring a much higher level of ability to make function (basically requiring chaining multiple kills in a few seconds), while the last being best used when tanking (think NC MAX shield) or for bum rushing an opponent to gain a better position.

what if a Heavy could not be revived anymore?

Wouldn't really change much since its not addressing the underlying problems. That being they are hands-down the best class for generating kills in typical 1 on 1 scenarios.

To address that we need to change something about the HA so that its appeal isn't quite so high without undercutting their role as the infantry counter to armor and air. Easiest way to do that is changing the shield so that its useful but no longer an "I win" button.

What about changing HA's shield to a passive ability ?
Permanent glow and 75% move speed is quite a huge nerf and IMO it's enough to doesn't want to pick HA in every situation.

The max rank of Regen, is the same as a Bio Lab recovery effect, and is only when not in combat.
As well, passive regeneration is from Bio labs, only in allied territory.
Otherwise you do not heal: A Flash is 50 nanites, and can achieve more than a singular heal, that must be re-stocked after use.

So of 3 healing methods mentioned: 2 require you to be out of combat.
Of the kits, both are limited to healing set amounts, and limited in field use, and if used often will actually kill your nanites.

Only Medics, have the ability to heal in combat constantly, without a care.
All classes can have regen implants, be affected by Bio Labs, and use the Med Kits.
The Heavy's Overshield literally is designed to grant higher effective health for a period of time; It doesn't heal them.

If you knock down a heavy's overshield, shield, and get into his \ her health: They are punished.
If they take a Medkit, that's 3 at max left, likely no overshield charge, they just aren't screwed.
Unless you mean, that heavies should be half dead unlike other classes for 10-20 seconds?

Don't plan on someone being weakened for 10 seconds. Any class will have recovered by them, Medics especially.


They chug medkits, as a response, and to not be reliant for 4 uses, on a Medic's healing tool rate.
So, am I meant to be sorry they didn't wait for the full heal time & spent nanites for it?

I like the rest of the post minus the stamina bit, and wanted to note this:

Vanguard shield has been changed; It's a directional resistance shield.
The former, lasted 10 seconds, and had massive recharge times.
The new, well, is just screwed.

NC max shield prevents reloading, firing, and is also directional in addition doesn't stop Archer rounds (Anti-max weapon)
So the max is rendered useless combat wise, unless they triggered a reload before shielding up.

So if the third new heavy shield basically disarms them, all the opponent has to do is not be directly ahead of them or fire through the slot - If truly taking that approach.
Unless it absorbs an magazine or half of that, the heavy basically pushed a suicide button, unless they can kill the opponent fast.
Since they can't fire back at all.

But you are being creative, I will say that.
And it could allow storming, without the incredible health advantage needed.

What happens after combat, when your health is low?
0) You are left with 200HP, resist shield or Andrenaline shield 35%, the other guy is dead
-> You have roghly 400HP with resist and 450 with adrenaline
1) Imidealtly Anrenline will recharge, giving more "health" at will
2) After 6 seconds, your shield regen kicks in, every point is almost doubled by resist armor, Andrenaline is charging further.
3) After 10 seconds shield is full recharged, passive health kicks in (Bio, Implant) 1015/~1100
4) After 14 sec you are back in full 1450/1750

You reach the 1000 HP (like every other class undamaged) in about 10 seconds without suit slot (-20% for the good to go nano, -3 sec for ASC)!
Around 8 seconds of beeing in disadvatge. This can be altered by ASC (shield 1 sec faster, and faster recharge) /Nanoweave (20% dam reduction).

Now our heavy chuggs a kit in the beginning, and is directly back up to about 900 HP/750HP with nanoweave thats already 1k, without any teamwork, directly, not 8 seconds later!

The diffrence is far to big. You hit your narnite pool for just 50, thats nothing, 1 minute more playing for a second life versus everything that isnt another heavy directly after engagemant. A nade is far more ineffective, a flash can be worth, but it is still risky and not indoors (effectively).

LA and Inflil operate away from medics and can make use of kits.

Well this tread is not about unballanced heavies, but medics beeing least played class, jet this one reason: One does not need them other than for revives. What else to pick instead of kits: Aux shield? Cool, but inferior. C4 one way ticket, all or nothing, and only CQC, and expensive (often 2 needed).
i realy hope forward spawn stations will revive the medic as a class. Cool thing would also be that the healbeam would add 10% damage resistance when applied, giving the medic some support use (XP shared if healed person kills something).

Medic and engineer are my favourite classes in PS2 so my opinion is probably less interesting here, but I like posting my suggestions on medic discussions anyway, so here it goes (this is actually a repost from a year ago):

• Overhaul the medic directive by increasing healing/revive requirements and removing/lowering the kill requirements. You could also replace the latter with something that makes more sense for a medic (e.g. revive x class y times, introduce revive streaks, make revived people's kills also count as assists for the medic, etc).

I spend about 30-40% of my PS2 time playing medic, I have revived over 13,000 people (across 3 characters) but I'll never get a directive reward because I'm simply not interested in going on wild killing sprees when I play a medic. Personally, I'm fine with that, I don't play the class for any particular reward, but it would be nice to get some recognition from the game as an added bonus to the fun I'm having.

• Introduce some stats for the in-game stat counter which are relevant to a medic, e.g. number of people revived, amount of hp healed, number of kills made possible by your revives (a form of assist), etc. I know some of these can be calculated from your ribbons, but that's a pretty cumbersome way of going about it.

• Make the medical tool 'auraxable' (for healing/revives) like the weapons.

• If you want to go even further, then maybe give a small bonus experience for some of the above: e.g. some assist exp for kills people make immediately after you revive them. Can be as little as 5-10 per kill, anything that's balanced. Similarly some small reward for revive streaks and the like.

These are pretty minimalist suggestions with zero impact on game balance for the sake of easy implementation. That said, if the devs ever decide to look into this class more deeply, I too would enjoy actual new features to expand our toolkit, so I wholly support the many great ideas listed in this thread.

Every class has this capability.
The Medic has the ability to recover near instantly.
Why exactly must the heavy be the vulnerable one for the longest exactly?
If you want quick heals, supportive fire, revives, you get a medic. If you want 4 heals in a long battle, you're dependent on finding one.
If it's a short battle, sure fire off 4 kits.
In a long fight, that's 4 encounters and no more.

Medics need toys, but they are already superior to the kits, to the implants, and seriously are underrated.


Rayler's post, has some interesting concepts.

"Aura boosts" are an easy fix for medics.

Slot one boost and give various effects to nearby people.

1) Everybody runs faster
2) Everybody jumps higher
3) Everybody reloads faster
4) Everybody does whatever

Now most of what you could do with that is already being done with implants and I doubt DBC would want to overshadow their little ****-hat money making scheme... but it's an idea.




Or just get rid of the FULL HP medical kids and only have the slow overtime restoration ones... might make Medics more useful.

Seeing as how, as been noted, revives aren't strictly necessary for gameplay (they just save time), they need to be made more attractive somehow. I have an idea of how to do that, based on what I perceive as the usual flow of battle:

1. Medics, in terms of combat, seem to usually be an inferior choice to HA's as things now stand. The "combat" aspect only means they're in combat, not that they're all that good at killing things.
2. What we can do is make medics a lot more survivable, as that would place them on a sort of par with HA's in that they do less damage but can handle more. We need to do this in a unique way, however.
3. Medics, being masters of the body, could be seen as good with toxins and the like in addition to stimulants and such.
4. We could give medics the ability to put down "toxin fields" which either do DoT damage (like pain fields) or do a flat reduction of enemy hp. These would discourage enemies from getting too close to them. They would not affect allies (innoculated by faction).
5. We could also make triage always-active, thus giving them a lot more survivability at range. Note that it should only have the 5 meter range if in a vehicle as now - if out of one, its self only.
6. The combination of the above two would hinder enemies that tried to get close to the medic and also give them more survivability at range. Specifically, it would give stalkers trouble should they try to close with the medic (shield flash, unless they use carapace+cham module) although it would not stop anyone who was determined.
7. You can expect the combination of the above two will mean more medics as the increased survivability and utility will appeal to quite a lot of people. Whether using cqc weapons to take advantage of their toxin fields or long range weapons to take advantage of their constant regen helping them, it will definitely make a difference, and it fully makes sense.
8. Specifically in terms of revives, reviving at close range to enemy becomes easier because the enemy will have trouble if forced to deal with a toxin field and reviving at long range to enemy will become much easier as the medic will regen through more of the reduced damage at range, especially if they use the medic implant that further boosts the nano regen device and potentially gives them some small arms resistance.

What do you think?

If they stack with each other, let alone the same effects.
You'll a medic squad, that rushes in with shotguns head-shotting due to aura buffs making anything less than 1 medic per boost useless against it, beyond a Max.

Full HP is a bit off; It's 4 shots of 1 health bar. A medic is infinitely superior to that.

"2) The biggest problem, while playing as medic is how helpless you are, while reviving someone."

Well, what about having a device that the medic and have instead of the area heal or shield regen that gives them more shielding when they have their Medic Tool equipped?

Very nice ideas being tossed out here. So I'll repeat a few of my own from other threads.

First we rework the existing nanoregen field slightly - no major changes except the final rank's extra range moves down one slot and in its place medics get a deployable regeneration field (ala current shield regen) that has the same effect. Second, replace the current beacon with a field that functions identically to the reworked regeneration field (including beacon at final rank) but affects shields instead and maybe at a faster rate. Finally we add another option (or several if desired) that has the same mechanics. My recommendation was an offensive field that basically drained a hostile players energy within the area, with the rate increasing greatly if the ability was active. Basically a "nope, no shields, no cloak, no jet pack, and no heals for you - hope you weren't depending on those to win". A damaging field could also work, as could buffs (run speed, ability regeneration rate/ efficiency of use, etc all being candidates) for those within the radius or other effects.

I had also recommended replacing our existing suit regeneration boost with one that was more "selfish" in that it increased the healing effect on the medic (and would so the same so shield repair, buffs, etc) at the price of less effect for other players. However in hindsight I think it would work better if the basic effect remained the same as current but we could tier it up (like how LA's can tier up their flight suit) with further ranks granting improved effect on the medic for all abilities.

I like the idea of triage being made useful, though my own gut instinct (probably from being in the medical field where triage was a whole class unto its self) is that it should be more about affecting others. The idea I had was that instead of a constant small heal it would "tick" less frequently but when it did deliver a heft heal (say 25% of a current medkit starting and topping out at 75%) to the lowest health player in range. I don't see why I couldn't affect the medic if they met the qualifications and since the supposed advantage of the assault rifle over a carbine (which have the same base damage and a generally higher ROF) is accuracy and power at range it would be more likely to target us. Of course you can imagine the swearing about "OP medics" when that boost does kick in but that will happen with any buff that doesn't make us a better heal bot. Toss up maybe?

Keep the ideas and discussion alive folks. Longer its front page more chance a staff member seeing it and taking note of our concerns/ ideas.

Would it stick with a valid target until that player got to 75% or would it round robin a group of players, redirecting to the current most damaged, until they were all 75%?

Zero, multiplied by time, is still zero.

To Whoever:

1) People defending the Medic are just Trolls or they are just so enamored by personal preference they can't see past serious issues.

2) If there were no spawns in the game... like Sundys that are parked right outside the objective... and there were finite lives avaliable to take an object... of course Medics would be necessary. That is not the case so they are not necessary... In no situation is a Medic ever better than just having another Heavy Assault... you are just fooling yourself if you think so.

3) Res grenades 99.99999999% of the time just res a bunch of people who you know full well are just going to get obliterated right away... you did it just for certs.

4) Good medic rilfes do not make them better than HAs... if the HAs LMGs were MUCH worse there would be a balance between the classes... not the case.

5) HAs do not need medics due to Medkits... just get it though your fat misshapen head (this argument is 100% locked down and is not just nullified because you think otherwise)... they do not need Medics.

6) If the game was 10v10 fights or less then Medics would be great... but they are not great when all that matters is shipping in bodies asap... see number 2. They are not Priests (or name your healer) from WoW. If a Medic could revive around corners are from halfway across a room this would be different, but they can't and if they run into heal they just die... when they could have been an HA and maybe killed 2-3 people with their shield up. Res grenades are not an effective answer and only result in cert gain and more deaths... not reaching a goal.



They need to be given abilities that are not in the preview of healing // or shooting... these things are already done better, by existing equipment and other classes. And Ressing only matters in small fights with limited spawns or where massive distances have to be traversed to take an objective... that does not exist in PS2 as a whole.

END OF STORY.

Hmmm, honestly didn't think of that. My personal preference is pretty much the second one - currently most-damaged first. So if the initial patient was still taking a beating and thus closest to death it would keep healing them each time it ticked until someone else in range dropped closer. The idea being born from all the times I've spotted someone taking fire and moved to heal them only to at the last second have one stray round finish them off.

And never say never with some things. We aren't asking for a fundamental rework of the game or completely new vehicle models so these upgrades are possible. Just need to get the ball rolling so to speak. Case in point - people said that Medium Assault (basically ARs and carbines) damage degradation in PS1 was working as intended. A few stubborn players kept doing test after test and submitting them until Sporkfire posted on the forums "yep, you were right. Medium Assault was screwed up. How bad? It had to be a typo." True to their word, they fixed it. Besides, Daybreak isn't Wargaming or Verant. At least we have a chance..

so turn it into a directional shield were HA´s are easier to flank cause of the speeddebuff? make sure they can´t stop BASR hs´s ( i always died to BASR hs`s with active shield or is that with resistanceshield)?

to me that still doesn´t fix the nonmedic appeal

No, I meant something on this forum being read by staff. That's the zero.