How have Ravens escaped a nerf this long?

I'd hardly call 50m extreme long range.

When your life is limited to 8m and buckshot, 50m might as well be on the moon.

Wat?
If you look at quartz ridge and indar exe or crown vs ti alloys, that's an easy 200+ feet if not more.

"Dear SOE,

Have you heard that (insert last thing that killed you) is OP? Please nerf or my tears will be great.

Sincerely paid subscriber with (x) number of hours and (y) numbers of dollars invested so I know what I am talking about"

Feel free to use this template.

When making posts about NC stuff, remember to remove any affiliation with TR from your Profile..
It just makes it easier to talk about these things on any serious level without some NC guy doing their trololol thing.. and saying your just mad cause you died to it..

How they suvived this long? Simple, cause NC are all over the forum blaming others for being OP and that keeps them under the radar, especially if a second faction jumps in.
They still have their ravens, their ESF-OHK-vanguard with shield, the scatmax, the best sniper rifle, the highest impact handguns....but hey...PPA is the problem...no...really. ;-)

That is a decent NerfWhatKilledMeSide2 template, I approve.

Feet?

Quartz ridge to indar excavation is around 700 meters IIRC.

Ravens are fine, they do not need another nerf, nothing has been entailed here to make the claim on them being OP and being worthy of a nerf beyond your typical QQ rhetoric that just so happens to come after some extremely successful pushes by the NC on Emerald by raven wielding maxes...

Those are VKPH numbers I've encircled and they're right about average. I'd much rather put stock in the opinion of someone who is above average with Ravens and has spent a considerable amount more time with them than 14.7h.

Unless you're interested in finding out how the average player is doing with the Ravens... and in that case asking someone who has average stats is pretty close to asking the average player.

After all, why else do we look at average KPHs and average VKPHs instead of simply which weapon has the single user who has the highest KPH/VKPH with them?

Those are stats based arguments regarding balance and have nothing to do with whether you should put value in someones opinion regarding balance.

Honestly, as NC i'm not going to defend the Raven. I see it pulled far more often than a Falcon on allied MAXs. TR usually have a more even split between their Pounders and Fractures, and I rarely ever die to VS MAX AV (and if I do I can't tell the difference anyways).
I am against nerfing the freedom-eagle sound though. FEEL THE GLORIOUS SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

I'm not sure I follow.

If I were to ask a stats-terrible individual about the Ravens, they might say that they are too hard. If I were to ask a stats-awesome individual about the Ravens, they might say that they are too easy.

Which is why if I want to find out how the average person feels about how Ravens perform for the average person, wouldn't I ask a stats-average person for the results? Neither asking a stats-terrible or stats-awesome person would deliver the same point of view.

If you want an average guy's opinion on balance, then go ahead but I'm not quite sure what you might hope achieve with such useless piece of information. Why would you want to know whether an average guy thinks the weapon is "too easy" or "too hard"? Neither answer is meaningful because that average guy, due to being average with the weapon, lacks the skill to know whether the weapon is balanced or not.

What you want is an expert opinion. Someone who knows how the weapon works, has put a great deal of time in to learning to use it, demonstrably knows better than most how to use it, and knows what he is talking about because of his acquired skill with the weapon. An expert may tell you "it's too easy" not because he's better than the average guy, but because he recognizes that for the average guy, it's too easy compared to whatever it's supposed to be balanced against. In essence, an expert opinion is more valuable than an average guy's opinion in determining how balanced a weapon is for the average user.

Hey guys, i'm going to say something risky here
---Background info---
I am a BR 100 TR player with 76+ days, and i've got a BR 41 NC character.
I have 1 raven(but have used duals) and I got 2 pounders&fractures.
---Statement---
I don't think ravens should be nerfed*
They don't in my opinion seem to be an issue.
Sure they are good.
But.. the difference between raven&PPA is: ravens can only be used on expensive vunrable MAX units, PPA can be used on (cheaper) scythes, (equal price) magriders and cheap harrasers. (Im only using PPA as example, and it was in the OP).
Also another thing is, ravens are more expensive then PPA.
And, not the entire NC faction uses them constantly.
And as we all know the VS now all use PPA.
You must also realize, the ravens take some skill to use, you've gotta manage to hit them when they are moving, your ravens are mouse bound so if you shoot and suddenly get shot at and you need to move it means the rockets are "lost".
You are exposed when shooting and the enemy can track your rocket trail.
For these reasons i don't think they should be nerfed.
---Conclusion---
The ravens are good weapons but situational, expensive(certs/resources), you have exposed time and they require some skill.
---Fix them don't nerf them---
The reavens definatly need fixing.
The rendering/render range must be fixed, the range must be fixed(no more shooting beyond render).
And they need to be dedicated AV (just like the fracture and vortex).
So that would mean less splash damage, I dont see it as a nerf i see it as making the weapon task specific, just like fractures and vortex.
---Final message---
My main is TR, don't use my NC (much) anymore.

Thanks for reading the long post.
Written on phone sry for any mistakes.

Ah yes, the old let me poke at your stats ruse to discredit someone, not like 14 hours using a weapon is more then enough to determine if something is OP or not, and considering I have such a score with that time Id say its just fine... Running max isnt my thing unless its needed.

Try using the weapon your self there champ, treading on my stats just proves your not willing to approach this issue without a rather stupid bias; Demanding only the most top tier players of the weapon give input on this is not only pretty disrespectful but is not a realistic way to get input on the matter, especially when your trying to get input on the game's public forum...

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying I'd much rather give credence to opinions by people who are less likely to be wrong. I

So because you've played an average amount of time with them and have had an average amount of success, that makes your opinion as valuable as someone who has played for many times longer and has top 5% success? Nope

Right... so, why should I use the weapon? I'm not making any claims about whether it's balanced or not.

I'm not demanding anything, all I'm saying is that you're probably not someone whose opinion is the most informed on the matter because you are average with it and have not spent that long using it.

How does the forum being public validate your opinion..?

Actually an expert opinion might very well be a biased opinion. The expert has already mastered the weapon, so for them it would seem easy in comparison.

For example, consider 5th grade mathematics. For us now such math obviously seems easy. And although we can try to go back to 5th grade and imagine ourselves to be 5th graders again, you never can truly go back and ignore your current experience and knowledge.

If we want to know whether 5th grade math is difficult for your average 5th grader, we would not ask a 12th grader or a 1st grader. We would find the average 5th grader and ask them.

In this case expert opinion is actually worth less than an average opinion if we are interested in balancing around the average player.

But we're not interested in whether 5th grade math is difficult for the average 5th grader. We're interested in whether math on the whole is difficult for the average 5th grader. A 5th grader only knows the math he's learned up to 5th grade and bases his opinion on that, which results in a very biased, limited, inaccurate view because the 5th grader doesn't know jack **** about 6th and 7th grade math not to mention stuff like calculus and matrixes. If you ask the 5th grader "do you think math is a difficult subject" (equivalent of UP in the Raven balance discussion), he might say "not really, I can already do divisions with fractions!". When in reality, if you present him with any maths problem from higher grades, he has no clue what to do. The 5th grader's own ignorance in the subject leads him to grossly overestimate his own competence, resulting in false assessments about whether maths as a whole is difficult. Classic Dunning-Kruger effect.

In the Raven balance discussion, we only have one type of Raven that everyone uses. We don't have an average user's Raven and an expert user's Raven. Therefore the opinions of expert users (equivalent of a maths teacher) are much more valuable and accurate than the opinions of average users who don't even have any clue what the expert user can achieve with the weapon.

EDIT: sorry for all the edits, hope you catch all that