everyone has access to recon darts?

Very good point actually. I think it's balanced out by the roughly 3 seconds in between detects. So even if you had a few heavies shooting darts around, you'd need to have them all spam the magazine in the same line/triangle from a doorway outward in order to pick up an enemy more than once. 10 meters with a 15 second lifespan and 3 seconds in between detects will have your heavy assaults doing this every few moments, while you are only really able to dart one doorway. You could take the time and have your heavy assaults dart every entrance into the point, and a bit outward to catch the enemy a bit early. The time it takes to do that, coupled with the short timeframe in which it's alive, is a bit too long to make it overpowered in my opinion, even with 6-7 HA's.

100% This

Take it out now.

As for that earlier analogy:
I certainly wouldn't mind a revive item for other classes, even if it's just at 5%. You know, in case the Medic dies
That said, I see Infiltrators mostly used for hacking and darts; Or in larger OPs we sometimes task someone with countersniping.
Enemy snipers are annoying, I've yet to see them be really useful. Unless they hit the last medic.

My outfit leaders already complain when more than a couple of people are inf, this is only going to make it worse. We are now only useful for hacking, and even that's irrelevant when taking a base because randoms always blow up terminals and turrets anyway.

I guess I'll be saying goodbye to my favorite class when I wanna play with an organized team...

PlagueRat already pointed it, the crossbow dart is mostly useful for placing in choke points, you aren't going to be capable of doing any search&destroy with them. So any squad leader will still take an infiltrator instead of forcing everyone to spawn crap darts every 20m just for an extra medic.

I still don't like it, but whatever, our breath is better spent in other issues.

They're probably mostly useful for tracking enemies who have taken cover in some complicated terrain or structure during engagements.

The outfits I was thinking of were the type of outfit biased against LA/Infil already, not the good ones.

alot of players including me find Infiltrator easier than other classes because of the Darts. IMO it's absolutely overdue that either the other classes get a counter for this quite unfair advantage or Infiltrators should lose their Radar perk.

as for Jets comparing to Darts:

No. Abilities compare. Tools compare.

you have the Cloak and can hack. and especially the Cloak makes it way more easy to avoid vehicles than the Jets. LAs don't have a tool. you have two. Medics have two. Engies have two

Infiltrators always want everything. it's really the most greedy part of the playerbase it seems. buff me here, buff me there.
why do you get an update now at the cost of LAs getting shifted back again?
Because you guys cry loudest. since the release of the game

10m for giving up your sidearm with a 30 round carb? Dear Devs, that's hardly enough. it should be at least 80% of the Darts in efficiancy. like SMGs are almost as good as carbines.
The new motion Sensor is really good, it makes a sole sniper much more powerful. they last forever and you cant surprise them anymore. Bolt Action Attachement is a buff, too.

I can't see that, you will get a dot and in the next pulse the guy might be out of range, if he isn't moving then you won't see anything. When I had rank 1 of the recon dart I couldn't do much with it except firing it at my feet and see from which side of the rock the angry HA is coming.

Your post really comes as somebody that is still btthurt over the LA update, get over it.

whatever.

Infiltrators got two very useful tools. Medics got two tools as well, but one is useless, Engies have two tools but no ability.

now you get new buffs and want others classes to get Zero. and thats common attitude since the start of the game.

you don't like other classes critisize this? get over it

Its a bad idea to give everyone sensor darts.
Even average players need only to see one red blink on them map. It can go away - but if the can - they will go check, thinking thats there is an infil that just cloaked.

This xbow dart is liek confirmation - ok, he is there, i will not be able to see him on the map, but i know the direction -> seek and destroy.

Very bad idea.

Keep in mind that darts allow the entire side the same advantage. Most infiltrator certs lines are for the benefit of the team, and don't give much xp - darts, hacking, motion sensor, recon drone. Compare this with certing c4 or a tank/lib.

The issues with LAs exist and are completely separate: )

LAs and infils used to be the more broken/neglected classes, because the experience/skill vs success curve makes other classes like Max/HA more popular.
The LA update is to come, and you should ask for systems around which LAs could be useful rather than take it out on Infiltrators ( here is my LA feedback post).

I always use the Darts and I'm sure you guys have the same experience: most friendly Snipers standing around don't and take a few shots before they drop dead. Well, Darts are extremely useful, both for attacking and defending. very often its easier to assault or go 1 on 1 with Darts, Cloak and Pistol than with Carbine and Jets. unless you have to get over obstacles of course.

cloak and jets are fairly balanced in my experience. Darts make the difference really. If I theoretically battled myself LA vs. Cloaker, the SMG cloaker would win for sure in most invironments due to the darts. and I have played 5x the time as LA

as for most infiltrator cert lines being more team oriented - i don't agree

Hacking: useful for the team (and for the infiltrator himself) with terminal hacking but even more useful when hacking turrets, especially in Amp Stations. Most powerful guns in the game btw. Shooting Tanks and ESFS/ Libs give good exp (if maxing exp is your metagame)

C4: Utility, not a tool. compares to Med kits (usable by all classes), Tank mines, Prox Mines. The latter, Prox mines give the highest Exp on average
Motion Sensor and Darts: can be used team oriented but very often they are not. see above. And even if they are, they will still give a huge benefit to the infiltrator himself, whereas other classes don't have anything like this. neither for the team nor for themselves.

Now there could be a less powerful variation of this radar perk usable by other classes - with severe downsides - and some infiltrator-players just don't want other classes to have that. although they are at advanatge already and get this advantage buffed (Motion Sensor)

they gave SMGs to infiltrators, why not giving radar to the rest? We can recon if you can go CQC

I'd like to say a few words to the dev that designed this but I can't do that here because I would be banned.

Hey devs why don't you also introduce Anti Tank dats, Healing Darts and Repair Darts? There's already an overabundance of radars in this game, can we please focus on the shooting itself instead of adding more and more ways to spot people through the minimap?!?

Remember this when your update comes around for another class...including the heavily needed Light Assault update.

Yes, you can hold me to it.

I'm all for giving infiltrators more options. If other classes get counters to it at the same time

Maybe it depends on the fact LAs are not a support class? The problem with LA is not the lack of tools: they are assault soldiers they have to fire and throw explosive, they don't have to build/repair/heal/spot/fix/adjust/change/hack/improve anything. The problem of LA is lack of mobility. Wanna blame anything? Ask for an improved adrenaline pump, faster drifters and reduced accuracy penalty while jetpacking.

But this thread is not about LA vs Infiltrators. The point is that introducing tools that do what another class can do is completely nonsense.

How would you feel is tomorrow even Medics, Infiltrators, HA and Engineers got a Suite Slot allowing them to fly the same way a LA does?

1. by no means the usefulness of Infiltrator tools is restricted to supporting. And most infiltrators don't support. They play their own game
2. infiltrators are at least as good if not better at assaulting infantry than Light Assaults
3. Radar perk is a trait which Infiltrators get on top. Other classes have one ability + one useful tool or two tools or just one ability.
4. mentioning adren pump is funny. Infiltrators getting it too now. Useless so nm.

Radar is pretty OP in combat. With darts I don't get shot in the back. As Any other class I do.
And only Infiltrators got Radar. Now you get a second variant to choose from which is even better in many situations. So why not have other classes get a less good Radar?

And its absolutely proving the point that each and everytime a LA is complaining he will be countered by other saying they want our Jets. Its always the Jets.
Because there is nothing else but Jets

We're not getting more options...

The Stalker Cloaking device was reduced drastically on the private test server, it's now fairly worthless and an ambush oriented cloaking device...as I predicted would happen. Basically, the only way to really make use of the Stalker Cloaking in its current incarnation is to sit and wait for an enemy to happen by...your mobility is extremely limited.

With that said, they haven't addressed any of the issues with hacking being extraordinarily lackluster. We have absolutely no reason to even come in close, the only reason people were excited about Stalker Cloaking is that it would have provided us something fun and interesting...but now it's been weakened to a state where it's worse than Hunter Cloaking.

Now, add in all the radar detection capabilities combined with the Darklight hard counter and absolutely no reason to come in close....................why should we do anything other than snipe? This is why they're giving the other classes a detection dart......................Infiltrators have absolutely no reason to do anything but snipe now.

This might seem like a conspiracy theory, but it seems they decided to do the exact opposite of what they originally intended...push Infiltrators into a purely sniping class. This may be why the Recon Drone is being postponed to find a more wide scale and interesting use.................because we're being pushed into a position where you never see us in close.

The counters are going to push SMG, a very hated facet of the Infiltrator, out of the class...and with the lack of scope sway on close ranged sniper rifles, these infiltrators will also turn to sniping to get that additional range that takes them away from the plethora of counters.

I agree on the Stalker Cloak, made a thread about the overnite change to it.

As for options:

Motion Sensor is awesome. 50m radius with showing in which direction enemies are heading is all you can really ask for. Usable both as Sniper defensively and infiltrating CQC

Flashlight: don't know how it could be effective. Especially since you have to sacrifice Laser/ Grip for it. Maybe if the light wasn't as bright and It would have the same effect as spotting (don't worry)

Infiltrators can still cloak and walk out of radar distance. They are the only class that can remove itself from the Map.


Yes, small scope BASRs will become more popular. Because they are better.

Hacking lackluster?

As a LA Amp Stations are my favorite base design. Yet I'm better as infiltrator due to all the turrets. I find it quite funny that there is so little hacking when bases are attacked.
If you posess all turrets Air is easy to deny unless really outnumbered and you can own any tank/ infantry outside. Hacking itself is superfast and hacking manned turrets is a joke. Now put a motion sensor next to it.
Techplant roof turrets are invaluable too. So are Amp Station and Techplant vehicle terminals, especially the one almost next to the hard spawn

That's 2 out 3 facility types at which hacking is super significant. Hacking vehicle terminals in towers? Very important.

P.S.: maybe infiltrators would hack more if all of them knew that you don't have to face the turret while hacking it, thus, being able to watch out at the same time. I'm serious

Even before the change, there's really no reason for us to be within an enemy base...it's a saddening fact that I had hoped this update would address. Hacking is worthless, and I could go in depth explaining why, and now everyone will have recon darts. It just seems like we're being pushed into a purely sniping role...which may be why the Recon Drone was pushed back, to increase our long ranged capabilities.

I don't like this.

I was hoping for some fun melee play...and that's just not going to happen now.

All radar detection capabilities the Infiltrator has are a double edged sword for Infiltrators.

If we can't see the detection radius, we don't know if we have already blown our stealth by stumbling into an enemy Infiltrator's detection field...which was the problem with the original incarnation of Recon Darts. If, however, the detection is displayed on the radar...like Recon Darts currently are...we give away our presence by using them and alert people to keep an eye out for that easy to distinguish distortion effect.

It's a lose/lose situation in every situation other than chaotic base battles; the only time I use recon darts at all. I much rather not know where my enemy is than ensure that my enemy is looking for that easily distinguishable distortion effect of my cloaking device. In a chaotic battle, I use them just to help my team and never to aid my own progression throughout a base.

Those who use low graphical settings and individuals that haven't adapted to the distortion effect will equip this to their sidearm, I see no reason not to. As for the light itself...the development team needs to do something about friendly exposure, allies having the ability to expose you with their own flashlight.

My suggestion would be to turn the flashlight color into faction specific: Red for the TR, Blue for the NC, and Teal for the VS. Then just say that each flashlight works on its own frequency and doesn't detect members of your own faction...and you get a much cooler lighting effect.

We don't even know when we are in radar distance.

Recon Darts, Motion Sensor, Proximity Radar, Scout Radar...the only one that pings on the radar are Recon Darts. If a Scout Radar is overhead, you have absolutely no knowledge of this...and it'll detect you even if you're stationary and cloaked. The rest will detect you so long as you're moving, and again...you won't know.

If we are on detected on the radar, our stealth is blown...so it's not very different than ANY class just walking out of the radar range. I play on low graphic settings and have killed Infiltrators using just the radar, all you do is point in the direction of the dot and if you can't necessarily see them (something you should easily be able to accomplish on medium to ultra settings even WITHOUT the flashlight) you just shoot anyway.

So...again...no different from a Heavy Assault just walking out of radar range, or a Light Assault, Combat Medic, etc...

Well, that and there's no reason to come in close anymore...we'll need the distance.