Just for those of you that wonder: ZOE doesn't gain its power through the damage buff, it gains its power through its speed buff. I mean, seriously, the ridiculous things can sidestep faster than I can run forward! That is the real power of ZOE right there. You could remove the damage buff/nerf and the speed alone would make it worth it. The second power of ZOE is the fact that it has infinite use and instantaneous toggle on/off. Comparatively: Lockdown takes a few seconds to initiate, and it halts all movement and focuses the MAX on a certain area, leaving it unable to turn around and face threats from behind. It still takes several seconds to deactivate if threats are detected from an area the MAX cannot see, during which it is a delicious target for anyone with C4 or explosives. Aegis takes a second or two to activate/deactivate (this is not an issue). While active, the MAX can do nothing but waddle (i.e., it can't sprint, melee, or shoot), though reloads can continue while the shield is active (thankfully). The shield blocks all damage it is hit with, but the MAX can still be shot from the sides and rear, and even carefully placed frontal shots. The shield can only block a set amount of damage, and it only recharges when not in use (regardless of whether it is being hit or not while active). ZOE makes a MAX move faster and deal more damage at the cost of a bit extra damage received. It toggles on and off instantly. With all this in mind, here's what I'm asking: Lockdown: make it activate/deactivate in about one second, not several. Aegis: allow sprinting and melee while the shield is active. ZOE: make it use a capacitor instead of a toggle (like the Heavy Assault NMG).
While I agree that the speed is the biggest factor overall I don't think it does account for the superiority the ZOE MAX shows against a TR MAX. Even a semi-decent player should be able to keep his crosshair on a sidestepping ZOE MAX at 5-15m, because, honestly, this game is slowmotion for anyone who has played games like Quake, Warsaw, Painkiller and so on. Even though that era is long gone and even though most new FPS games are comparatively slow I find it hard to believe that none of the people I encountered was able to do that. Besides, don't forget that the VS MAX itself also has to compensate for its own speed while aiming as the angular velocity and/or transversal velocity affects both players equally. Tactically, yes, the ZOE speed buff makes positioning a lot easier and often times that is indeed incredibly powerful but the pure aiming component is basically untouched by it.
Ah, the good old days of Quake. The mere thought still brings a smile to my face. I never said ZOE was easy to use, but getting instagibbed by a giant purple iceskating bunnyhopping mechanical crabman is enough to make even the most resilient players ragequit. Seriously, it really sucks. Makes me go every time. It's not the best way to view it, but think of it this way: How many people use Lockdown? From what I see, not very many. How many of them complain about it? A lot. How many people use Aegis? A vast majority. How many of them complain about it? A fairly good number. How many people use ZOE? Pretty much everyone. How many of them complain about it? Almost zero. I'm not calling for ZOE to be nerfed into the ground: that'd be worse than the current situation. The only thing I would like is for the devs to curb the usage of it a tad (replacing the instantaneous infinite toggle with a capacitor like the HA NMG). It would still have plenty of juice for those big fights, but you wouldn't see every spandex wearing dude with a halloween costume using one every second they're running a MAX.
The thing is, though, that all infantry classes get nailed by every MAX. I will admit that ZOE makes it even more of a cakewalk and if people feel that constitutes a state of being OP I can see where they are coming from, but I wouldn't necessarily agree or disagree. A ZOE MAX rushing into a room, killing 10 oblivious people and then farming the reinforcements streaming in through a doorway is not that much different to me than a TR MAX walking in and doing the same thing without ZOE and once 3 of those 10 are actually decent players both MAXes will die in 5 seconds flat. ZOE is without a doubt the most powerful MAX ability. When I saw it for the first time in the VR I instantly said it would probably break the game without even having seen it against real people and I am usually very careful with such statements. I understand it has since been somewhat toned down (I took a 2 month hiatus inbetween) but apparently not by all that much. It still is terribly strong. Apart from the obvious disparity in overall effectiveness, though, I think another reason for the proliferation of ZOEs compared to the other 2 MAX units might be found in the nature of the ability, which unfolds its full potential no matter who uses it in what circumstances. It is a solo ability in its truest form. You run fast, you kill a lot. That's more or less it. The Aegis Shield and Lockdown could probably be used in a more effective way than we usually see, but that requires a lot of coordination of many people and even then the impact might well be not as big. But this is not so much about a comparison of the MAX abilities or MAX vs infantry for me. My concern is mostly focused on the MAX vs MAX scenarios. The thread starter said taking a ZOE MAX head on in a TR MAX is suicide and the numbers make that borderline impossible, yet I experience the same thing on a daily basis and I would like to know why.
Well, the vanu's main faction trait is flexibility and maneuverability. Instead of nerfing ZOE, you could just buff the other max abilities. The TR should be given increased rate of fire with increased speed like the vanu max. The NC should get jet packs to make up for its shotgun's long range.
I imagine taking away the increased speed or damage would be easier. Probably speed, to make charge a viable option for VS. If it's only the ZOE maxes that are overperforming, buffing NC and TR maxes up to par will just ruin infantry combat completely. Then you'd have to buff regular infantry. Then you'd have to buff tanks and planes and everything. IMO the speed is the problem, because it negates a lot of the drawbacks of glowing and taking increased damage just because a fast-moving target is harder to kill (see harrasser vs. MBT).
The problem with jetpacks, regardless of whether they actually fit or synergize with NC maxes, as per the devs themselves, is that they're grossly overpowered on maxes. VS maxes had it in PS1 and were even slated to have them in PS2, but the devs threw that idea out before it even got to player testing. All that being said, we don't even have to get rid of the "shield" idea to begin with. We just need to get rid of the gimmicky directional shield and turn it into something like the heavy assaults ability. Then we get rid of the buggy directional damage mitigation. Keep the locked weapon debuff and disable the shift sprinting while it's up. Suddenly the NC ability becomes useful in more situations. There's also another suggestion like this involving making it like a permanent resist shield (basically the anti-ZOE/opposite of ZOE's stats) and just giving the NC max a permanent tankiness. Either way, directional and unreliable damage mitigation needs to go. As for the TR ability, I really can't think of a way to salvage it without making the "deploy" time almost nonexistent. The actual weapons on the TR max are fine(well, fractures are getting toned down, but yeah), but their ability is just very bad outside of camping a doorway well within a room.
Since i can´t talk much about the NC ability since i dont play NC as much (have a 25 char) lets focus on the Lockdown and ZOE here. As I wrote in another thread Lockdown was **** in PS1 and is **** in PS2. While even two factors come into play to fully understand why they put the lockdown into PS1 in the first place. The TR AI in PS1 was first the Pounder max which had a huge indirect fire effect. Meaning you could shoot around corners and a lokced down max could make a door pretty much a death zone. Still due the grief system you eventually got weaponlocked VERY fast. The Burster max not locked down was pretty much useless BUT if you could lock down the enemy fighter approching were toast in seconds. NC and VS had lockon guns as AA. It all sounds cool but was already there inbalanced. There was no way to push forward while locked down and while moving the pounder or cycler later on was pretty much useless. Thats why TR got the overdrive. Once activated you could not stop it until it was empty and then you had a timer on it. So no on and of juggling like the ZOE. The jumpjets were the most fun and usefull ability in PS1 and you could reach points where no one could reach you. You have to see in PS1 the mapdesing was pritty much straight forward meaning no cliffs or vertical bases inside a mountain. So it was powerfull but indeed a thing you could manage. So here we are now. The TR lockdown in PS2 is even worse then in PS1. First you can´t do ANY indirect fire and be always in the line of fire and the maxes are not that strong nomore like in PS1. Second the mapdesign got more vertical and is not so much straight forward. In PS1 you could pretty much predict where the enemy is coming from in PS2 they are coming from everywhere + the enemy can do indirect fire with AV nades and the DECI user will survive a quick shoot and back in cover. Not to mention the C4 from above. What it makes worse you are totaly unable to aim while going into lockdown or delock. Your guns are pointing everywhere but the enemy. So if you are beeing flanked you cant unlock and shoot at the same time. The ZOE max I really don´t know where to start here. The guy who came up with the idea to give the ZOE speed + a damage buff must have been totaly drunk or never played the game before. And trust me the damage you take more is beeing canceld out by the speed big time + you can turn that thing on and of as much as often as you like and its instand. Run and gun at its finest. No real tactics involved. You know you have the firepower the speed and the amour if needed. If a grunt can´t run away from a glowing crap you had to know that something is really broken. And the "TR has other nice OP guns like the marauder" don´t count. The MAX units are the KINGS of the infantry class. They are the top of the foodchain so the impact in infantry fights are insane. Its ok if you can grind the enemy down and throw men after men against the ZOE maxes until they run out of recourses but as smaller the battle as bigger the impact since you can´t hide or run. They will be faster. I have to admit the ZOE maxe is kind of a gamebreaker at moment. I have not a single idea how to counter them. On Miller it seems the NC gave up on fighting them since you see them nearly warpgated and no tech on the north and still push east on Indar. I do belive that the NC are even impacted more by ZOE since they don´t have the range on the maxes to deal with them in distance nor have the RPM to shell them with the vanguard like the prowler can and to be fair they don´t have the marauder either. One last word on the Jumpjets idea. That WOULD be the dumbest idea of them all. Maxes in trees on top of biolabs and hanging in the cliffs. I don´t want that and i am sure 66 % of the playerbase don´t want that as well. Collin BR40 CR5 out By the way i am german and my english is not very good
Prowlers are fine and Strikers should require LOS for the rockets to track after being fired, ZOE is fine, and the NC needs buffs in the following categories: NC Max, Enforcer C85, Vanguard (by reducing top speed but increasing acceleration), Phoenix.
If anything needs nerf it c4 been one shot bye that so many times....(half times seems come from nowhere) Shotguns should have no damage on max's thats just a joke it's pellets get real. Alot problems in this game but what can you do.
Already do. As for MAX balance: Buff Aegis by allowing one arm to fire with it up, as well as increasing overall shield coverage. Scrap Lockdown and replace it with Overdrive, Lockdown was a useless and boring ability in PS 1, and it's a useless and boring ability in PS 2. No idea what SOE was thinking when they shamelessly copy-pasted the already horrible Prowler ability even though they knew how effing well that played out in the first game. -11\10, worst decision in the history of MMOFPSs. Get rid of ZOE, give VS jumpjets. That's what they wanted in the first place.
While people complain about lockdown(and I feel for them), I have to say that I genuinely fear a lockdown BursterMAX. I feel like jumpjet MAXes would make for the same mobility greif magriders caused when they could get places other tanks couldn't. Imagine MAXes swarming a tower as light assaults do. I play quite a bit of light assault and would drop my LA in a second if I could MAX jet. The element of surprise is too valuable to give to a class who already has a stat advantage.
See, if people were more coordinated (this is one of the downsides of the Free to Play model- not as much investment) then Jumpjets would be fine on VS even with TR still having Lockdown- because then you'd have a situation where the TR (with coordination) could completely "Lock down" a position or facility with well placed and supported Lockdown MAXes, NC would be able to use their Aegis in walking shieldwalls, and VS would be able to do Death From Above Blitzkriegs with their jumping MAXes. Though honestly, I could see Vs getting JJS, TR getting Overdrive, and NC getting a modified combination of Lockdown and Aegis- locking them down but putting a recharging shield in front of them that they can fire through- essentially turning them into Turrets. A lot of the issues with many of the abilities would really be fixed if they'd just turn Clipping back on between MAXes and enemies- so they couldn't just run through you to your squishy backside.
Well, that is why you don't lock down unless you have an a few Engineers behind you. It only works in certain situations, just like the ZOE. The great Max players toggle ZOE when needed, otherwise you are risking being killed by a rocket in one shot. ZOE really isn't that big of an advantage when you take into account the amount of damage you take while it is left active. It is basically like an overdrive/self-destruct switch. I wish people would stop asking for nerfs and just learn how to take advantage of what is available. You are watering down the experience for everyone else.
Now that I can agree with. I am not sure about melee AND sprint with shield active. I would think one or the other would be okay, or both if meleeing moved the shield to reveal some of the max when meleeing. Those are not unreasonable requests. Then balancing ZOE would be about duration and recharge of the ability. They should remove the glow from ZOE also. I think most people would never complain if they didn't know it was active or not.
No Solution is NC Midrange weapons. Screw NS. And buff NC MAX reload down a few sseconds and increase mag size for them.
If you alter ZOE, it will be rendered underwhelming and Charge will become the better option. At that point, you might as well just scrap the entire ability and come up with something entirely different. With that said, I believe that everyone is going about things incorrectly in regards to this "problem." It's a superior ability to both the NC and TR, but any change to the design renders it underwhelming in comparison to both these abilities. So, the changes must be made to the NC and TR, not the VS. Someone mentioned an increase to the area which the NC shield covers, extending it in a partial /T\ pattern where the | would be the MAX unit. This would effectively cover about 50% of the sides of the MAX in combination to the front, giving them a more adequate shield than what they currently possess. They wouldn't be immune from flanking attacks...but they would have a better change avoiding a bit of damage from a wanton spray directed towards their sides. With that said, the ability to sprint while wielding these shields would be fine. When it comes to the TR, I honestly have no idea. I like the VS MAX because of its mobility...so I have always loathed the TR MAX despite my speculation that it must work pretty damn good for suppression during base defense. Still, I loathe the ability and always have...so I really don't know how to buff that concept. Either way, that's what should happen. Buff the NC and TR abilities, leave the VS ability alone. Otherwise the ZOE needs to be completely scrapped and replaced with something entirely different.
