Can we finally level NC to TR and VS standards?

Your argument, with supporting date, showing NC doing better with NS weapons is definitive proof in my book that NC has plenty of skilled shooters. When I mention "teamwork/skill", that's not necessarily in reference to players' shooting skills, but their map awareness, leadership skills, and general teamwork. I find those things extremely lacking among NC, at least on Connery. I maintain that NC has the tools they need to succeed, but they lack the coordination and team mentality to do well.

Using KDR to compare anti-tank capabilities? Come on you two can do better.

Check the leaderboard, doubleclick on VKPH and scroll down untill you meet the "C" ratings. I use the C** ratings if available as it's easier to see where the B ratings end and the C ratings begin. C ratings are the average what you can expect an average player to achieve, and thus are the most common and influential stat as this is exactly what will be achieved on average gameplay.

If you look there, you'll see that the NC Halberd scores better by a good margin (2.4 Vehicle kills per hour more or about 15% or something? logical as the NC main gun is less likely to score the kill). But the TR main canon trumps the NC main canon each time in vehicle kills. The AP canon difference is 3.5 VKPH in favor of the TR.
Interestingly, VS has a difference of average VKPH in the Halberd of more than 10 VKPH. The HEAT and HE variants have lower VKPH's than the TR and NC counterparts (1 and 0.7 VKPH difference with the NC, but the AP one of the VS gets 0.3 VKPH more than the NC). Considering how small the actual difference is of a Magrider main canon compared to the NC main canon, the absolute murder the VS Halberd brings to the table compared to the NC makes the Magrider a clear winner in a "who destroys the most vehicles in X time" contest using a Halberd-mounted Magrider.

This isn't true on all servers, and the myth that NC is somehow lacking teamplay has been perpetuated since the launch of the game when the NC was even more clearly underpowered than it is now. While Anchored Prowlers literally destroyed entire tank columns and Magriders with Saron sniped vehicles or PPA's/LPPA's stopped entire platoons in their tracks, NC had very little in the way of truly OP things. The TR and VS claimed superior skill over the NC back then, and it has never really been true. Even when Miller was tauted to be the most skilled server and we had half a dozen leaders who could organize the entire NC while the TR and VS zerged it wasn't enough. Leaders and teamwork come and go on all factions, and the NC simply lacks the arsenal rather than the leadership or skill to accomplish what it needs.

You could say that NC is far more horny...?




















I'm going to be banned for jokes so bad they are considered crimes against humanity aren't I?

I think there is exactly one person out there that belives this. And that's you. But you might as well just be trolling...

Even if I was the only one who believes it the truth remains the truth all the same. It is nigh impossible that the NC somehow is equally skilled in carbon copy/NS weapon usage compared to the VS and TR, but is "lacking teamwork/skill" when it comes to capturing the continent.

If NC was inferior in skill, then their carbon-copy weapon usage would suffer as they would lose due to skill problems and dying more often when wielding them due to superior (organizational) skill of their opponents. But they don't have inferior skill with NS weapons, so the logical conclusion is be that when wielding carbon-copy weapons the NC keeps up with the VS and TR, but their average arsenal is inferior meaning they lose out when using that arsenal.

Are there weapons in the NC arsenal that are great, if not OP? Of course there are, but so do the VS and TR! But unless a large chunk of the players are using it regularily it's not going to matter enough. The average player is using all kinds of stuff, and because the average arsenal of the NC suffers from for example the higher punishment for misses they have a worse arsenal overall. In the meantime the VS arsenal for example has newbies start off with one of the best and easy to use LMG's in the game giving them a huge advantage right there.

Mimimi...from the faction with the no skill I-Win-Button built in their MBT and MAX....

Seriously you should stop with all this NC inferiority complex. At this point you don't even know what you are saying, so I am not gonna bother with said irrelevances.

Personally, I believe that the game is balanced in most parts and there are things slightly better without being OP. But I can say this...imo you are ungrateful of what you have and NC has the richest variety of arsenal out of the three factions.

Just to give you an idea of how good weapons you have, at least that's my opinion, you have the best SMGs(Cyclone and Gladius that is the best cqc weapon in the game, decent up to 20-25m and what an SMG is supposed to be used for), the best carbine GD-7F (by some considered the best weapon in the game) and the best assault rifle Reaper. Do you realize that you have the luxury to have deadly accurate 200 dmg automatic weapons?? And don't tell me about recoil because the rate of fire is just the right amount for compensation and effectiveness combined with this muzzle velocity (by the way, vertical recoil is not that difficult to manage in the long run like horizontal and the supposed best TR weapons have the highest horizontal recoil values combined with high rate of fire). Don't tell me, for example, that you find it difficult to compensate for the Reaper! I generally find the NC weapons very rewarding with their high dmg profile because it's not as punishing as firing a TR needle weapon where if most of your shots don't find their target, you are done! Your weapons, in other words, have the least flaws I would say overall. VS suffers at longer ranges sometimes and their weapons (infantrywise) are kinda basic and tasteless which can be a good thing for a noob but the skill ceiling is not that high.

If there is one thing in the game that is OP or even broken though, it is clearly without an inch of a doubt the NC max. The NC max does everything, that a max should or can do, better than the other two.

It would seem you've never played much NC before, have you?

The argument can be made that the NC does have the most diverse infantry arsenal based on them having the greater or equal numbers of weapons per damage model, but I really don't agree. Not only does the NC have the exact same number of broad damage models as the TR and/or VS in every category, but they also have the lowest RoFs across the board at times being lower than both faction equivalents. See post #61 for the list of guns and their respective damage models.

• Cyclone is nice. Gladius however is just awful, having largely worse stats than both the other two NC SMGs as well as every other 200/~500 gun in the NC arsenal. It's the least accurate primary in the game.
• GD-7F is almost identical to the VS' Serpent, both of which are the equivalent to the TR's Lynx with the highest RoF of any primary weapon to date. The damage model is not unique to the NC and is certainly not widely considered to be the best gun in the game.
• The Reaper is also not widely considered to be the best AR, nor are 200 "deadly accurate" for more than a single shot. They can be accurate but not deadly or deadly but not accurate, but never really both at once.
• Fine, don't care about recoil that's not what matters. Bloom, ever heard of it? I'd assume so, and it's the biggest and baddest on the NC-exclusive ~500RPM guns at 0.07, higher than on any other gun. Recoil can be controlled to a degree, but bloom will never be controlled as long as the gun is firing. Bursting lowers DPS, hence why these guns can never be both deadly and accurate at once. These weapons are much less forgiving than higher RoF weapons as they lose a significantly greater percent of DPS per missed shot than other weapons.

NC MAXes are very overrated in my opinion. Their TTK is a fraction of a second faster than TR's or VS' TTKs, and in exchange they lose all range and sustained fire capabilities. "NC MAX does everything better than the other two" my ***.

That last mock-quote really made you look like a total a**hole, Campagne. Doesn't really help that most of your response is feelings over facts. Just comes across as childish and petty.

Never said that.

So, I know that you are not going to accept any of this as an NC fanboy. I don't care and I stated my opinion that I know you don't like. I knew someone would say the typical "you've never played NC". I have, in fact, if there is a faction I have not played much, that would be VS.

-Go check Gladius hipfire values for a 200/522 weapon. But it is such a bad gun that it is the prefered SMG and one of the most used NC weapons right now. As a matter of fact, after the last update on the SMGs every single NC was using it compared to the TR and VS ones but I guess you don't remember that. It's not that convenient for ya is it?
-Ofc GD-7F has similar counterparts and I never said it is OP as you are trying to present it. That inferiority complex is showing...
-Never said it is widely considered just like GD-7F and your argument seems childish to say the least. I believe it's the best assault rifle and deal with it!
-So, I see you kinda ran out of options and arguments and you are pulling the bloom card now. Let me tell you something about your horrifying bloom...burst fire! Yes! And let me tell you something else now...everybody does it no matter what automatic weapon you use and it is literally the same for every weapon. Your argument is invalid. They don't lose significant percentage of DPS because you are not going to miss as many shots as a high rof weapon, your hits deal significant damage and you kill enemies with three headshots which is such a serious advantage. With a high rof weapon you are obliged to be accurate with almost all your shots compared to a high dmg profile weapon. If you don't get that, then it's your own problem.

A TR Max is using an automatic weapon which means that all bullets have to connect for the specific stat of the TTK. Considering how awful the accuracy of the Max weapons is and how difficult it is to be accurate with every shot anyway, it's impossible to have this TTK but guess what happens with NC... Don't try to manipulate stats like that because stats don't work like that mate, sorry! As for the range, they have literally the same effective range. I kill and get killed across rooms and not only by/with NC Maxes all the time. TR Max or VS Max at the same time, needs more TTK at the same effective range and enemies are able to get away relatively easily. Let alone NC Max has the most useful special ability, but yeah I know lockdown is so good, right? I don't even have to say anything about Lockdown or Zoe because they are both garbage!

It is what it is, deal with it!

Pretty accurate across the board here. Technically, the VS Canis initially appeared to be the most popular of the new SMG's, but that may be limited to only the connery server. Otherwise, the Gladius is holding up, despite it's glaring issues. It's got some best in class range ( only really bested by the NS-7), and top tier recoil handling. Bloom only actually starts to matter with it at ranges where one shouldn't really be using the Gladius anyways.

Having had to frequently run up against light assaults of both the VS and NC, the GD-7F is more terrifying then the Serpent. Not sure why, since the two are so similar, but the GD just seems to perform better against me.

MAX suits... Let's be real. VS would kill to get their hands on that shield ( or original ZOE), and the TR are not far off in that regard. Keeping in mind that, the TR MAX while locked down is in theory the most dangerous MAX, it still doesn't hold a candle next to the NC MAX when it get's in close. That much can be said from experience. Don't get me wrong. The TR MAX ability has it's moments. For AA MAX loadouts, it's probably the best thing on the market. But it still makes the TR MAX lubriciously vulnerable to many of it's prime weaknesses, namely rockets and C4. Meanwhile, that shield is basically an on tap nope button.

He's used more facts than 99% fo the people in this thread.






Or this forum for that matter.

Didn't have too.

Saying so draws attention to the potential biases involved here. You might on play against the NC and therefore have a bias for or against them, in that when you die you feel that the opponent's gears was superior when it may or may not have been/played a major role in an engagement. Obviously I play NC pretty much exclusively, so I have my own biases here too, though I wear my heart on a sleeve in that respect.

Gladius' hipfire CoF is the best of all other 200/~500 guns, but that's not saying much. Compared to every other SMG in the game, aside from the terribad Tengu, it has a very poor hipfire. "Every single NC was using it compared to the TR and VS ones?" That's just plain objectively untrue, and on top of that the Canis saw much greater usage stats than both other SMGs prior to the Unstable Ammo nerf.

I never said it was OP, just that it was not the best carbine and that the VS also have what is an almost identical gun.

You are presenting an opinion as if it were fact. Don't do that.

This here is an example of why I feel you have very little experience with NC's 200 damage guns. Bloom is basically the front-of-the-line concern when firing a 200/~500 gun. These guns bloom like mad and can become inaccurate in as little as two shots, which is a problem for accuracy-demanding weapons. Yes, all guns can burst but not all guns are required to burst to the same extent. A 167/~600 can generally fire a little bit longer than a 200/~500, and a 143/~750 can fire for longer still. These guns may have lower initial accuracy but they bloom less per shot and are penalized less for every missed shot whereas the lower the RoF the more important accuracy becomes.

If you think high RoF guns are more punishing than low RoF guns, well.... Try playing with low RoF guns then? Run the numbers? Check the spreadsheets? It's not a controversial position that low RoF guns are more demanding of accuracy.

Hilarious that you hold the TR MAX specifically to a double standard against the NC MAX. I wonder where your allegiances lie. Regardless, shotgun don't deal their full damage every time, they fire pellets and like bullets from a chaingun those pellets often miss. If you can't keep the crosshairs on target and can't get close enough to a target to deal as much damage as possible while in a MAX suit, git gud son. It ain't that hard, but not like the TR MAX can't keep firing until the target is dead anyway.

"Stats don't work like that?" Hey, that's my line!

Shield is very useful but mostly because the NC MAX needs it to survive the frequent and long reload cycle.

Actually I believe it's what they call a "joke." And a rather good one if I do say so myself.

If ya' don't get it, parthenogenesis is a form of asexual reproduction in animals, including some mammals and even humans. This essentially creates "Virgin-births" in animals though they are not always genetically identical to the mother as is the case with asexual reproduction in plants. Regardless, while parthenogenesis in humans rarely yields genetically-viable offspring, indeed if ever, --[Only chimeras can be parthenogenetically produced in humans, there are no known cases of true parthenotes]-- the joke is in the implication of the reader being a parthenote and that therefore [her] mother would have conceived the child through the genetic information of two females. A homosexual conception, if you will.

And thus, much like a frog we have killed the joke. Congratulations.

Oh, and also that's wrong too.

If we ignore the defaults, as they will obviously have more users, the list of guns more commonly used by the NC is as follows:

• GD-22S -- 6190 users
• AF-4 Cyclone -- 5583 users
• Blitz GD-10 -- 5260 users
• Warden -- 5087 users
• GD-7F -- 5032 users
• AC-X11 -- 4642 users
• LA1 Anchor -- 4480 users
• Razor GD-23 -- 4419 users
• NC05 Jackhammer -- 4309 users
• EM6 -- 4226 users
• MGR-S1 Gladius -- 4216 users

Well, colour me surprised the Gladius isn't even in the top 10 most commonly used non-default NC weapons in the game. Shocking. /s

Note that the other two NC SMGs occupy the second and third spots, indicating that SMGs are very popular in the NC.

It's almost as if you were talking right out of your anus and based your statement on anecdotal personal observations despite the readily available abundance of information directly contradicting this belief.

Source: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/items/weapons

To be fair, the Gladius certainly is on the more common side of NC primary weapons, even just looking at those stats. And back when it was released, its usage rate was through the roof, eclipsing everything but the Canis.

So clearly, it's still got something going for it.

• I used to think the Lynx was TR's flavor of the high dps carbine, but it really does fall short. 143 damage model guns are the sweet spot. Not only do they out-dps TR's 125 gun, they have the same bloom per bullet so TR has to burst sooner than the other two. The Lynx is also the hardest hit of any gun from dps tied to frame rate. In theory, our close quarters carbine compensates from these things by only dropping a single damage tier, but there are much better guns for ranged work.

• This is what's funny. The Gladius is the most accurate SMG when ADS, it has the highest fire rate of all 200 damage model guns, and is closer to the Cyclone in dps than the Lynx is to the GD-7F from your example of TR's "equivalent" gun. So many in NC use that gun for a reason. It's one of the few weapons that I bought fully loaded in this game. It's incredible when you play to its strengths. If yo like to hip fire, then it's obviously not for you. If you ADS with SMGs out to medium range, then it's one of the best SMGs in the game.

If you can't admit the NC Max is head and shoulders above the others, then there really is no hope. It has the best dps where it counts, and the ability to shield while reloading those guns.

I don't really think so, but if it was it'd probably just be because it was a new weapon with a special model, not because it was particularly effective or unique in any major way. The Gladius hasn't really been changed very much since its release, and I doubt the small nerfs would suddenly off-put anyone using the gun beforehand.

It's the eleventh most common weapon without considering defaults on a very popular weapon class. It's the twentieth most popular infantry weapon when defaults are included. It doesn't seem popular to me at all.

The Lynx does suffer being on the extreme end of the RoF scale, but it's still quite a decent gun. I doubt the TTK differences between the Lynx and GD-7F/Serpent are very large, likely close enough to not matter in an actual fight. I wouldn't prefer the Lynx personally but that's just my opinion. However this doesn't change the point as it stands: The NC, TR, and VS all have a very high RoF carbine, and that this is not specific to the NC.

I really, really, hope you're just pulling my leg 'cause you know I'll bite. No, the Gladius is not the most accurate SMG, it is in fact the least accurate in every stance and in its bloom per shot. Don't take my word for it, even though I've posted the exact stats and linked sources and posted screenshots of the SMG's stats ripped directly from the game. If you'll trust it more coming from your own mind read the numbers yourself.

Doubt it, but I don't know the DPS numbers for the Lynx--GD-7F/Serpent and I don't care at all so I'm not going to calculate them. Regardless this is a bit irrelevant. Again, see the above posts, it's not exactly a very popular choice despite the popularity of the weapon class in general.

Also again, not it's not. The Cyclone and Blitz are both flat out better for the vast majority of combat scenarios and are both more forgiving, more accurate, and have better hipfire. The Cyclone with extended mags and the Blitz have a larger magazine and greater damage per mag, though the Gladius can just equip SPRW ammo for the latter to be true regardless of the Cyclone's attachment choices.

I've been on the receiving end of all three MAXes and I can honestly say they all either kill ya' quick or they don't at all. At least the NC MAX has to sit there and hope I don't C4 him while he loads for several seconds after a few shots. Besides, the NC MAX is the only one I've ever been able to backpedal while shooting an LMG and win against. The NC MAXes are only used in situations where any MAX can succeed while TR and VS MAXes are pulled like regular infantry sometimes. (Especially VS, it gets quite annoying.)

There are a lot of players who will seriously disagree with you on some of this.

I'll give credit where it's due. The NC MAX does lack anti infantry capabilities outside of preferred MAX suit conditions. But give it those conditions, and it rips infantry and MAX suits apart better then any other MAX suit. Biolabs are the absolute worst place you can ever face down an NC MAX. No question.

And in my experience, half the reason the VS MAX gets treated like normal infantry is because it's the most flexible MAX. It's weaponry, at least from what I have experienced, tends to have a longer effective range then either of the other factions MAX suits. Plus, their ability really doesn't lend itself to standard MAX suit conditions in my experience.

While it is true the NC MAX can be back pedaled against, it also has the best tool for dealing with that problem thanks to it's shield. Make decent use of sight lines and that shield and little will stop an NC MAX. Plus, with it's ability not penalizing mobility or durability, the NC MAX can be argued as the safest MAX suit against C4. Even with the fact that that shield no longer is guaranteed to block all blast damage as well as impact damage.

Guess it just depends on how you look at it I guess. To me, given how many options there are to pick from, eleventh place is quite solid. Even twentieth thanks to defaults is pretty good in my book.

If nothing else, it seems the NC is the only faction that actually puts all three of it's faction SMG's to decent use. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a TR player run the hailstorm, or a VS player run the SX12.