Balance Pass Post 2: Nanoweave and Related Features

[Edit]
Wrong topic. moving myself to ZOE changes thread

Pretty much how I feel. If you don't like getting sniped, L2P!

If the long range snipers are really making an impact right now it should show up in the metagame of medics/engies getting Nanoweave. If you are still OHKing the medics/engies it's because they are more worried about explosions than snipers. In terms of battle flow you don't need long range OHKs to do medic/engy suppression anyway. Suppressed is almost as good as dead, and if they are in a critical battle situation chances are they've taken some shield hits so you killed them anyway.

I'm not a fan of randomly getting one shot by ******* random sniper when i'm looking at the map trying to tell a friend where he should go or where we are going next.

I think the best of both worlds is for the 'tier 3' sniper rifles to maintain long range one shot ability at the cost of even worse bolting/reload times. This could be done on the weapon or by adding a special ammo type.

I don't think that the majority of long ranged snipers would mind that in the least bit!

1. Increase the re-chambering duration. (Increased time sink)
2. Incorporate a randomized scope offset upon scoping in. (Makes close range use extremely difficult.)

I don't necessarily agree with the increased reload time, it's pretty significant as is. You are, however, thinking correctly in terms of how you balance sniping...you use the time sinks incorporated into the class. The experience gain per hour should ultimately be on par with the experience gain per hour of your run and gun oriented players, that's how you tell if long ranged sniping needs balanced or not. So, if the statistical ratios of experience gain per hour for long range snipers exceeds that of your run and gun oriented folk by a considerable degree, then I would say increase the reload duration and perhaps the re-chambering duration even more.

I think that every long ranged sniper would be perfectly fine with this because that is exactly how you're supposed to balance long ranged sniping, so kudos to you for understanding what very few seem to.

For a long ranged sniper, an inability to maximize our efficiency within any particular time frame is the equivalent of dying for a run and gun oriented player because the punishment is the exact same. We both have lost time that could have been used to gain experience and perform our respective goals. Long ranged sniping isn't balanced based off a death ratio because we are far more difficult to kill...so we have time sinks incorporated into the class to equate to a death when we do not perform optimally. Experience gain per hour is the equivalent ratio between playing styles...and so long as that's equivalent, both are balanced.

So, a much better way to balance long ranged sniping and actually keep this unique playing style in the game is to do EXACTLY what you just expressed. You increase the duration of time between chambering in another round, you increase the reload duration, and then you watch the experience gain per hour of the long ranged sniping community and compare it to that of the run and gun oriented players. If it's superior...you increase these time sinks further, and if it's marginally lesser you then decrease the time sinks accordingly until the ratios between your long ranged snipers and your run and gun oriented folk are relatively equivalent to one another.

Actually, nanoweave gets a triple nerf: It is changed from a 25% health boost to a 20% (not 25%!) bullet only resistance, which excludes headshots. Why such a huge nerf? It will be a waste of CERT, every1 will pick flak armor.

SMALL STEPS SOE. You make balance changes in small steps, not huge steps which make stuff useless.

I'd be interested to find out if the new nanoweave applies to damage before it hits the shield, or if it remains as current and only applies to damage before it hits health. If it applies before shield, this will actually be a nice buff to nanoweave. I also think you're overreacting. Even a 20% bullet resist is better in a gunfight than 25% explosive resist.

I do agree with you about making small steps, though. The sniper range nerf is one of those LARGE steps that shouldn't be taken until after the nanoweave changes have had time to play out.

Does this mean that you'll remove the trace seen when shooting with a sniper riffle ?

Suggestion : Make a range detector in the sniper scope then.

Making a HS on anything at extreme range save a lucky shot is nearly impossible if the target is moving due to lag and poor animation.
Reducing the HS range of a sniper riffle is the same as removing the purpose of the same weapon at least the weapons build to shoot at extreme ranges.
If you don't like snipers in the game or there are to many whiners about them remove them all together repurpose the infiltrator class.

I hate as much as the next guy to get shot by a sniper but if your sitting still your asking for it. keep on your toes and the amount of snipers out there able to hit you drop dramatically save for a lucky HS.

At 150 Meters I can more or less snipe with the common Hawk rocket launcher (since it is apparently extremely precise at dumb fire at range. even used it a few times to counter snipe a sniper when I'm playing HA.) .

I would like to see that when this update goes live that every cert spend in the infill class is return.

Regards
Ephreal

Okay so I like the changes to Nanoweave, I might actually think about other suit slots now. Then I see it no longer applies to head shots, and I thought, "yay they are finally giving snipers some love!". Then I see suddenly we're useless outside 150m...

Seriously SOE, snipers are already one of the least useful roles, and you're nerfing them? I understand it can be frustrating to be instagibbed from across the map, but why are you nerfing snipers' range and not AV turrets range? I main Infiltrator, and I don't think I'll ever bother with my sniper rifle if I can't kill outside 150m. For me at least, outside 150m is my primary engagement range, and primarily I'm killing AV turret engineers and engineers repairing base turrets both of which will now out-range me. This is one of the few useful things you can do with a sniper rifle that actually helps your outfitmates capture bases and contributes something other than a nice k/d ratio.


Snipers were in a nice place already, definitely not OP due to bullet drop and slow velocity, and not that useful in team play, but a rewarding experience nonetheless, and something I spent some time certing into. Not being able to kill those with high rank nanoweave was annoying, but not totally game breaking. It would a have been a nice quality of life thing to just fix nanoweave the way you're doing it and make 0 changes to sniper rifles.

In fact the best thing you could possibly have done for the infiltrator class is make SMGs the default guns. Snipers are a niche role that is only useful in certain situations and at certain bases, whereas SMG infiltrators are useful almost everywhere and can make meaningful contributions to capturing territory by hacking things and terrorizing the back line. PS2 is a team oriented game, and I feel the default gun should help newer players fit in well with a team and learn the strengths of the class.

The core issue is that SMG's are not a class specific weapon, ie we need a infiltrator specific close range gun to be default. Maybe something like a flechette gun which would be silenced by default.

I'm going to re-post this here because it's relevant. The following quote was in response to an individual expressing hatred towards Infiltrators, allegedly, boasting about their kill to death ration. I started to rant...but it's an informative rant.

Furthermore,

This video from Koolaid is also relevant.

Make the top teir sniper a long range ohk at least. Maby lower moving speed, ammo, no cloak or something instead. Other infantry, like nc smg's already instagib ppl like crazy in cqc, why is it worse getting gibbed by a sniper?. Tracers give away snipers good enough. IF a sniper is making trouble i dont break a sweat either just following his tracers as light assult or counter-snipe him.

all seems well except for this:

• We are capping all one-shot headshots on a full health target at 150 meters.
• Nanoweave will no longer apply to headshots, so the range limit will apply to all targets no matter what that player has equipped. This will give bolt-actions a more consistent feel when fighting within their effective range.
• The 150 meter range is a starting point. It may be adjusted during tuning, and we’ll be monitoring the range once it is live to see if it needs to be adjusted to be shorter or longer

this would completely ruin REAL long range sniping.
wiki:A sniper is a highly trained marksman who operates alone, in a pair, or with a sniper team to maintain close visual contact with the enemy and engage targets from concealed positions or great distances exceeding the detection capabilities of enemy personnel.
that is not 150 meters.I throw rocks further.
If you want nerf sniping capabilities,ok,there are few easy ways,but don't ruin it.
Make Bolt action rifles without clip,reloading each shot.this would preserve sniping ,but cap it on skill -->making shots count.Also,make bolt action rifles more noisy ,and double,or even triple how far they reveal your position.
Or/and add more tracer to round.
if this goes live most of bolt action sniper rifles will be dominated by semi-autos,scouting rifles ,maybe even low reciol LMGs.thats not good.
RIP snipers

I dont know if someone let you know this yet, if they have i'm sorry. But the impetus is the 1-4x scope version of the gauss SPR

Edit: oh they totally did, my bad.

So the Gauss SPR is a gimped POS.
Acknowledged.
Out.

haha you're funny

like snipers are entitled to tell other classes that they have to L2P. Guys, seriously. you are sniping because you got shot too often in CQC. you can't fool anyone here.

regardless of that, I think they should give snipers what they want. By reading this forums it's obvious that sniping takes hours of preparation. and after taking one, maybe even two shots you have to change continent.
But since you don't shoot at anything closer than 250-500m that should always be a 1hit kill. and at closer distance, maybe not?

what about some nanite force field that protects all infantry within 150m from OHK headshots?

you can thank me later for fighting your honorable cause. you deserve it!

YET i have yet to hear about the cert refund we HARASSER USERS DESERVE!!!. I'm still debating on whether I should cert my other two frames for it if they are just nerfing it into the ground next patch. Especially without refunding it.

I'm gonna put my two penneth in...

If I manage to snipe someone with a HEADSHOT at 250-300m, it means they were standing still, in the open, and I had to put a lot of work in to achieve that. I have to judge the distance, adjust for bullet drop, steady, and make sure I don't miss. I also have to look out for other snipers who will see that I AM standing/sitting still, and be doing the same to me.

I spent money on the RAMS, and got a 12x scope, specifically so that I could do this. It takes more skill to be doing all this compared to unloading 1 slug from a shotgun into someone running round the corner before they can get any shots off. And you're nerfing SNIPING?

What's the point in having bolt-actions now? This is a large part of why I play the game. Are we trying to make it so that the only option is to be running around as a Medic or a Heavy?

Since i bought my Blitz i usually take same amount of time fighting in CQC as sniping with NC14 Bolt Driver and i must admit that i get more deaths in CQC but i also get much more kills. So, for me the only difference is time - it takes longer to kill and to get killed when sniping. Your argument is invalid.

your conclusion is invalid.

obviously you were incentived to actively taking part in battles instead of sitting back. the proposed changes go further in this direction.

We've already covered in this thread, numerous times, what a sniper's role in a fight is. Quit your trolling.