As a full time Liberator Pilot

Have we had enough of the games yet? Care to discuss the issue?

What reasonable justification is there for the Dalton to one shot kill an ESF?

What reason is there to resist changing it if you think it is an ineffective weapon against ESFs?

What reason is there to resist changing it to a two shot kill against ESFs if it is a skilled use weapon?

The proposal is that the Dalton be changed to need 2 hits to destroy a full health ESF. This will remove dumb luck shots and will reduce frustration of new to medium skilled ESF pilots. High skilled Lib crews and high skilled ESF pilots will be able to interact much as they do right now.

This is just part of the proposal actually. I would like to see the Lib get buffed for A2G work so that ESFs would have to engage them in order to protect ground ops. This will give ESFs an uncontroversial role (less ganking, less rocket podding should be expected) and will make Libs highly effective unless their enemy actually spends resources and real effort to get rid of them. Libs are expensive and take 3 people, they should be expensive to counter.

Disclaimer: I do not use nor do I plan on using the Dalton, I have nothing to gain from defending this weapon.

Honestly Rat, If you're having that much trouble combating Liberators I would stop trying to fly down the barrel of the belly-gun or don't fight one of the 4-5 gunners per server who can actually hit ESFs. Either or.

Good.

thanks for using the friendly version of my name that eveyrone who knows me uses.

For the four hundred ******* millionth time - this is not about ******* ME and any trouble that I am having. This is a game mechanic issue.

I'm glad you glossed over everything but my disclaimer and closing statement.

I don't know Rat, are you?

I'll be honest, this now feels like someone is asking for a nerf to crossbow-knife combo (which for all intents and purpouses is instant kill), when used by engineers or medics (no shield, jet-pack or cloak). An interesting way to kill someone with some drastic constraints on effectiveness (the lack thereof).
Or someone who runs with the iron-sight bolt-action in CQC and uses it to either HS or torso-knife people.

You know, those things that kill people once in a while but really... not what you'd call an effective way to kill people (even if it's an instant-kill).

The whole premise of instant = effective is an odd one.

I one shotted a Lib with the Dalton tonight. I laughed my butt off. It was already pretty damaged.

Dalton used to 2 shot a lib, now 2 puts you on fire. No Lib pilot worth a damn wanted this changed.

I'm 3 times bigger than an ESF, getting 1 shot doesn't make sense. 2 does.

I am. As for glossing over you put everything in a quote so when I quoted you it didn't show your comments. Check the next post...

I would have to have more experience with the Lib to know if 2 or 3 is right. 1 is never right no matter how big or small the vehicle is because it just encourages spamming and causes frustration.

I one shotted a Lib at long distance just a little while ago with a Dalton. It had just taken off after repairing. They must have just repaired long enough to stop the fire because my one hit took them out. This was a VERY long distance shot. I fired on instinct but it was luck not skill. I'm sure they were pissed off - and I can't blame them one little bit.

i hate your mentality because it makes every game in which its displayed less fun for more people. not only that, the liberator itself makes the game less fun for more people. there are more people that hate dealing with them than there are people that enjoy flying them or dealing with them. a lot more.

losing is always a learning experience. i value the fight itself more than the outcome.

liberator. underdog. hue.

If you hate me because I don't want to lose, you sir need to step away from video games for a while and find something that makes you happy. Clearly gaming isn't the right choice for you if you hate people that are good at it...

We can agree on that Sir!

How can one not "like" self-refuting insults? You made me LOL for real.

Strange thing is, this is the first time I've posted in this thread for an extremely long time, and any post I made in here, let alone the rest of forumside, was calm and civil. The few times I do insult people, moderators swarm me like a flock of vultures, so at least when I insult someone I manage to ruffle their jimmies to the point where they feel the need to report me.

In addition, I never insult people as a last resort. Generally, I insult people when they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. For example, a while back, a couple of fools were talking about how it takes a Skyguard 90 something seconds to kill a Liberator, and AA Phalanx Turrets even longer. Needless to say, that became a pretty colorful topic to browse.

Good for you?

I have the exact same experience with the Admins here. See my sig?

I'm not sure why you felt the need to insult me at all actually... especially since your claim was false. I didn't resort to insulting people - but several people here did do that to me.

Anyway, the irony of someone resorting to insulting me by accusing me of resorting to insulting others was just too much not to laugh at. You gave me a good laugh, so thank you Dear Soul, thank you.

I didn't feel like re-typing this.

It would be cool if someone was interested in discussing any of the above questions, or proposing another idea.

The only "reasoned" response to anything so far was bringing up how the Dalton is a heavy shell and the ESF is a light fighter so one shot should take it out.

Obviously I agree with this, but the game is not about reality is it? I am retired Air Force (lol though apparently I can't spell it on my first attempt) and if we want to talk about reality this game is going to need A LOT of changes... first off if I hit a building with 8 rocketpods you are all going to die, period. If I shoot your jet with my assault rifle you are not going to have a safe flight...

I'm talking about game balance OBVIOUSLY not the physics of reality. While I don't agree with abandoning reality all together, we kind of have with the air game in PS2 anyway so...

One shot kills from spammed Dalton's are a needless frustration. Perhaps some people can get beyond themselves and think of the game for a minute.

If there is a game balance, meta game, or some such reason then let's hear it! If you just want to insult me because I dare to ask questions like this then yes I will simply report your posts because frankly there are enough pages of foolishness already here.

Here's why people say you've been awfully selective.

Another argument is that it adds a feeling of risk for the ESF, real or imagined (if it's one or the other doesn't really matter) when they engage a Lib with a Dalton. Besides a few outliers people will play differently because of the idea of a risk.

With how the engagement already favours the ESF, the dalton doesn't change that much, aside from the psychological effect. But that can be enough of a reason to keep the current functionality.

This has been mentioned, maybe with different wording, at multiple occasions and you just seem to deny that it's a valid reason. Why?


And to be honest, the shredder -is- better at AA overall. So people aren't using the Dalton for it's reliable killing potential. It's all about that psychological reason and the joy of landing those shots once in a blue moon.

This has been discussed at length, but I will try to be more clear for you. Before the tail gun could point forward it could be said that it "adds" another element of risk for the ESF pilot. This can be fun for all involved. Now though the tail gun covers most of the arc of fire that the Dalton has - and does a better job at it. Further, as you rightly noted the Shredder is a much better option for shooting ESFs down than the Dalton is.

I don't think anyone has an issue with the feeling of risk when attacking a target of any kind, or even if that target has effective weapons. For example I have no issue with the shredder being good against ESFs, and I don't know anyone who does. Perhaps there are some people who do, but I don't know them.

The Dalton isn't really a big deal when you engage the Lib, it just makes you have to be careful. The Dalton is a big deal when it is used as a spammed weapon to get random lucky kills. See Flag you've been quick to insult through this thread but you haven't seemingly bothered to consider what I'm really writing.

Those extremely skilled Dalton gunners will still hit their targets just as often if it is changed to take two hits to kill an ESF, only the spammers will be denied their lucky kills.

I don't know a single ESF pilot who gets mad when a Dalton gunner makes an excellent shot right at the moment you make a mistake. Good Lib pilots make ESF pilots make mistakes by how they fly. If the Dalton is a skill based weapon, then perhaps it should take some skill to use it against air.

The engagement SHOULD favour the ESF, that's one of the primary roles of the ESF in the game. As everyone has said the Dalton doesn't normally kill skilled ESF pilots - they avoid the shots and why can they avoid them? Because the Dalton is not a skill based weapon. It has a wide cone of fire where it goes randomly similar to the direction you point it. If the Lib wants to be able to engage ESFs with the main gun then it should be equipped with an appropriate weapon. That's how it works with ESFs and every other vehicle in the game, why not with Libs?

Yes the Shredder is MUCH MUCH better. Libs already have an option which makes sense and works better.

I laughed my butt off when I one shotted that Lib with the Dalton last night. It was a crazy shot at very long distance - I could barely see the thing. It was a joy to me because of this thread, but the guy who had it happen to him was probably furious. Because I got a lucky shot two people died and they lost a Lib. I don't know if they had resources or if their timer was up. Maybe they had to wait 15 mins to get another one... I'm pretty sure my enjoyment of that moment was not worth them sitting in the WG being TK'd while they wait.

Sure we can all play different things in the game while we wait - I do that sometimes but myself ESFs are really all I enjoy in PS2. I LOVE flying CAS. It is exciting and dangerous... anyway I digress.

We have already discussed this point, I have not selectively ignored it. Hopefully this extended commentary will help you see that.

... So what is the problem with the 1-shot?

I kind of want to go to Emerald just to kill Ratzo now. I'll think on it.