[Suggestion] Let's talk about phoenix

Once again, EVERY weapon you mentioned requires a direct line of sight in order to lock on. And as such, they give the opponent a chance to evade them or to kill the threat. One has to be given a fighting chance to defeat his opponent, don't you agree? The only weapon in this game that DOES NOT respect this is the phoenix! My ONLY problem is with the spawnroom campers shooting it and with the enormous range that it has.
PS. As VS, I have no problem with the TR striker, because THE LINE OF SIGHT requirement! I can easily avoid it. Also, I consider a bad idea having spent certs on unlocking the lancer. Never managed to destroy a vehicle with it (or maybe a couple, after enormous time trying). I destroyed many more vehicles with the nemessis or the annihilator.

You can't shoot down an engineer turret's projectiles.
As well the AV version is laser-guided: doesn't actually need LOS.

The Phoenix also unlike any engineer turret has the user completely unable to act, see, hear, or eject if anything gets near.
Engineer Turret can.

As well, you over-estimate the phoenix's turning ability, and the miracle of cover, repairs, interception fire.
If the Heavy wasn't in a spawn, he's begging for death - and has no eject button.

And every single weapon there allows the user to not be a sacrifice upon firing.
You also don't actually need LOS on target for the striker: if aiming ahead.

Not to mention, You can actually fight a Phoenix.
If the Phoenix wasn't in the spawn: The Phoenix user is the one who couldn't fight back.

The range is less than the Lancer, or MBTs.

I like the Lancer.
As for thing, I still have the ability to move, see, hear, and defend myself rather than be immobilized for the entire flight of a missile - to then reload said missile afterward.
Engineers in turrets are head-shot magnets: Phoenix users are in a far worse position outside of spawns.
Engineers can eject & react - Phoenixes can not.

Would be nice if DBG would give us some insight to present data of the phoenix. Im pretty sure, the amount of phoenix users is a lot higher than the amount of striker and lancer users.
The phoenix is just not as situational as its counterparts. It really should be changed that you can not shoot out of a spawnroom with this weapon. This would bring it more in line.

Not as situational?
It is the only weapon of the three to cause the user to become immobile, blind, deaf, and has a projectile that can be shot down.
Every launcher can be fired from spawn by stepping past shield, clicking & stepping back - Phoenix however can't do that back-step.
They'd be stuck at the front, stationary, begging for death outside the shield.

Striker is AA, with the farthest range.
Lancer is AV, with the farthest range.
Phoenix can only kill an Infil, and makes the user as vulnerable as possible for the entire flight.

?

AV Mana turret missiles can not be shot down. The turrets itself can be destroyed, sure, but once the missile is in flight it will stay in flight until it either hits something or its projectile life runs out and it auto explodes (around 300m).

Phoenix projectiles on the other hand can be shot down. Next time you see a blue screeching missile out in in the wild you can try it out yourself. It literally takes 1 bullet of any caliber to kill a Phoenix missile.

Like Krelas said you can curve Mana AV projectiles behind corners. Takes some know-how and quite a bit of practice but if you drag hard in a particular direction, you can hit vehicles behind cover. Say a tank is behind a rock, fire your AV turret over the rock, wait for the missile to pass the rock and as soon as it does pull down as hard as you can. The missile will curve down and most likely hit the tank.

The situation I was comparing the Mana turret and Phoenix in is simply killing armor. Preferably at range and preferably with a few buddies who are working together.

Phoenixes being fired from spawn rooms is kinda silly though, I agree.

You want to see what is going on outside of the spawnroom, around the next corner? Fine, you have to step outside and earn your view/your hit. Look for a safe position.
Phoenix can only kill an infil? How often have i seen Phoenix users destroying whole armor columns and stationary sunderers around corners without LOS from the spawnroom, while firing their missiles inside a secure spawnroom.
The problem is, that you have no chance to fight back. Maybe you are really lucky and see the missile approaching and you can shoot it down. But that is a BIG maybe. In all the hundreds of hours i invested in this game, over 1400 hours, i can count on two hands how often i succesfully shot down a phoenix missile. It is like hitting a flying ESF with a tank shell. Na, even harder, because often you can't see the missile properly. And believe me, i know what i am doing in this game. It has nothing to do with bad skill on my end.

Ah yes, so the whole bit where everyone else can move but the Phoenix can't becomes "Earn your sight by being the only one who can't step back"

A phoenix's damage output is incapable of killing any but an infil in one shot.
You need a lot of Phoenixes, and a lot of hits - without the enemy doing any repairs, interception or the like.
The same could be be done with less, with other AV weapons - just not from a spawn.
Given if they weren't in a spawn, they'd be mowed down during the flight.

Sherlock.
How hard is it to survive without the ability to control your character, hear anything near it, see anything near it, for the entire duration of the missile traveling up to 270 meters?
Compare that to firing any AV launcher -- without a spawn-room, the phoenix is near suicide if anyone is bright.
I make it a habit to kill them - since I can shoot them down, dodge them, and follow them.
Easiest damn kills - Since they are entirely screwed if engaged, hence why they use spawn-rooms.

Edit: in the case it isn't obvious.
Phoenix needs a revamp, since the only place it isn't near suicide is the one place it is quite bull-**** to fire from.

If you want to take a look around corners, yes, that's the price you have to pay.

Strangely, when fighting NC, i see ALWAYS a lot of Phoenixes around, destroying targets although they get repaired. It's just a matter of how many Phoenix users stand in their secure spawnroom. And more often then not, there are a lot of them.

I would like to make it a habit too to kill them, but strangely all those phoenix users always sit totally secure in spawn rooms. Laughing their a$$es of.

The only reason why you see a lot of annoying Phoenix lately is because it's bugged and any ******* NC HA is exploiting that bug right now.
They should fix it in January.

So to look around corners, with a missile that barely turns, you are charged the inability to see, hear, move, or disengage.
IE be ****** hard.

That's the point.
Outside of that room, they are basically dead - There is no reason for any Phoenix user to basically suicide if they are bright.

Once the damn weapon isn't suicide to use outside of that room, would finally locking it from firing there be practical.
As just locking it off now, basically means it has no-where to fire that isn't easily suicide, and barely a practical application.
As unlike the Lancer or Striker, you can't fire a Phoenix in the field, on the move, and by firing you expose your position - which you can't move from, with an easily followed missile & sound.

So how about we make the phoenix worth a damn without the bloody spawn, rather than just ram it into oblivion.
As I don't see why NC must have the most suicidal tool.

1) I don't want to shoot the projectile, I want to stand a chance fighting the LAUNCHER. I DON'T WANT TO BE A DEFENSLESS RABBIT running all around the field, while some NC is chasing me with blue orbs laughing his *** off from the SAFETY of the spawn room!!!!
2) LASER REQUIRES LINE OF SIGHT dude, you can't bend laser around the corners!
3) Mana turrets are pretty hazardous to use, because you become vulnerable to snipers or tanks. That's the normal tradeoff for such a weapon and this should apply to all weapons. Just as a sniper has to become visible to shoot, for instance.

But no, of course, you just want to have your sweet fun on the expense of others. You want to be COMPLETELY safe and INVULNERABLE inside the spawn room, and you don't give a *** about the feelings and frustration of the other players, incapable to respond to your attack!

Suicidal? You should be smart enough to fire it after hiding or taking enough cover behind a rock or wall. No one asks you to be "suicidal", that is plain stupid! No one here asks the phoenix user to stand up in front of the enemy when it shoots!!! By the same "logic" of yours, aren't snipers "suicidal" when they decloak and appear on the map after firing their rifle? Aren't mana engies "suicidal" when they have to stay on the turret until the projectile reaches the target? Isn't any infantry "suicidal" because they have to face the enemy? You say that you don't want to get "suicidal" using the phoenix, but in reality you want to be INVULNERABLE while using it. That's completely other story!

AND NO, "sherlock", you are wrong again: YOU CAN'T FKIN SHOOT DOWN phoenix missiles. When you hit them, you just make its user to lose control over it, for a few seconds. They are not destroyed, and many times they would still reach their target.

Nope dude, YOU don't kill the missile, you just make it uncontrollable for a few secs, then it resumes its flight!

Yes, you can slightly curve the trajectory of the mana missile at the last moment, to reach something right behind a corner. But that requires lots of skill and it doesn't even compare to the phoenix... Not to mention that the MANA USER WILL HAVE TO STAY EXPOSED ALL OF THIS TIME!

Neither the Striker nor the Lancer can kill anything before one reload either.

As far as I am aware, the rocket does not resume controlled flight after being shot. The reaction might be different if the missile is hit much closer to the source or much farther away from anything else, giving it a longer run after getting its trajectory knocked askew; but, that is a very uncommon situation. In common combat, the rockets tend to be deflected when they are close to the target and/or closer to the ground thus that hitting them sends them careening off far enough to miss the target and/or hit the ground harmlessly.

Sometimes you are the rabbit; sometimes you are the wolf. Sometimes you are the battering ram; sometimes you are the wall. Sometimes you are the fighting the mooks who pop out from behind cover; sometimes you are fighting a Virtua Cop boss.

It's either the excessive reload pacing or the passing through shield part that's the problem. The former part of your complaint is just a consequence of different combat options, which is fine.

Like mentioned before, the problem is that you have absolutely NO chance of fighting back against phoenix users sitting in their secure spawn rooms. That has nothing to do with your rabbit and wolf example. The wolf has to actively hunt the rabbit himself, exposed to everything and everyone outside. Not sitting totally secure in a shielded room having no worries what is happening around him.

And this needs to be changed.

I guess you'll have to take my word for it. I've shot the blue orbs with everything, from tank AP gun to sniper rifle and I know for sure that they can resume control after a few seconds (if the missile doesn't crash in the meanwhile, of course!). Many times I disrupted control of one missile only to be chased again a few seconds later by the same missile.

PS. as a FUN fact, a half or more year ago I was trying to snipe phoenix missiles. At one point I managed to hit one and surprise!!!! I was instantly put in FPV mode, as if I was the one who fired it! It lasted about 2 seconds, and I didn't manage to see if I could control it or something. And I never managed to replicate the "thing" again. Probably was a sort of bug or glitch, but it was quite ..interesting, more because I play VS and I've never fired a phoenix missile.

My point exactly! I wouldn't have anything to complain about the phoenix if it wasn't for the SPAWN ROOM CAMPING, which is definitely a BUG. And (secondary) for the excessive range, which should be trimmed. But mainly, the problem is caused by the ability of the missile to pass through the shield. Remove this and ....problem solved.

PS Maaaybe also I could rant about the fact that NONE OR ALL factions should have access to some sort of TV guided missiles, in the spirit of fairness, but seems no one care about such thing....

It is a problem especially on Esamir and northern Indar ... rather flat land without much cover.
It puts VS and TR in a big disadvantage considering Sunderer-Placement compared to the NC.

Shooting it down? Well ... good luck in bigger fight when those missles start to render just 20m away.


So you don't want to nerf the Phoenix? Ok, how about giving TR and VS something similar:

TR and VS: Give them some Wall-Hack-View showing Vehicles through solid objects. Also usable from within the spawnroom.
TR: Give the Striker back the ability to auto-lock-on on ground-targets (and be able to fire from the spawnroom in this mode) -> find the correct angle and barely any Sunderer will be safe.

VS: Ability to fire through *everything* ... buildings or hills. Maybe only when fully charged and then only doing the damage of a uncharged shot. So it won't be a threat if a single person uses it. Just like the Phoenix.

(no, this is not an entirely serious suggestion)

And at least give me XP for shooting down those missles.

Just played a session on Miller. Phoenix Spam is really getting out of hand when playing against NC. Definitely no fun anymore.

Once again it false.
Striker max range 300m
Lancer max range 450m
Phoenix max range 504m

And the lancer damages drop to 50 after 300m.

"Phoenix can only kill an Infil" it's not a AI gun and you need 10 shots or 2 charged shots to kill an infil with the lancer.

The Phoenix is the most powerfull no RS RL, you can perform unique things with it.