According to the Oracle of Death; In the past month the Orion has racked up more than 12,000 more kills than the next LMG in line (55705 vs. 43080 from the CARV) Not too shocking right? I mean it could just be that the Orion sees tons and tons more use, right? No,according to the same page, the Orion has only 181 more hours of use for that month (2085.2 hours vs. 1904.6 with the CARV) Meanwhile the Orion and the CARV (And Godsaw, for that matter) have nearly identical playtime numbers. But the Orion is way out in front on kills, kills per hour and kills per use. Something has got to give, make the VS pay for RoF with accuracy and recoil like we have to.
Tip of the day: everything seems brutally op when you shoot at stationary targets that have no Nanowave Armor and do not shoot you back
they shouldn't even have such a high RoF thats a TR trait. i mean srsly 750 rpm + top accuracy ( verly little recoil and bulletdrop.) i don't mind the 0.75 ads tbh...but its the whole package that makes the weapon superior to its counterparts.
I think the issue is as much the class as the gun, 750/143 weapons aren't a problem themselves The VS like to pretend that the Orion is -just- an MSW-R. Which is almost true, except with better accuracy, less bloom, less recoil and a faster reload AND .75 ADS as the cherry on top. Then combine all that with the winshield and ability to spam medkits, it's the perfect storm of ******** and no wonder everyone uses it.
Except that it is more accurate with less bloom and recoil, I'll grant reload speed though, that's my bad.
That the Orion might need a nerf of some kind is debatable, but what's certain is you're spouting nonsense as most do in these arguments, just look up the numbers provided by Erendil on page 4, or the good old spreadsheet, or query the census API on the DA website, or directly if you know how to. Then again, as we say in french, «there's no worse deaf than one who doesn't want to hear».
Okay, fine. My error. I will stand by saying how much easier to control the Orion is than the MSW-R. It's the easiest and most powerful weapon available to the easiest to play class, it has no -meaningful- downsides in comparison to the other weapons in its damage category.
It's called "my play test revealed Orions easier to handle in every way." There may be little in the way of statistical differences and that's fine, it feels way, way easier to use than the rowdy MSW-R.
What stats do not tell is MSW-R is supposed to be better at hipfire, but in reality you can barely hit anything beyond 15 mts. Crosshair is too wide for a hipfire weapon even with Advanced Laser Sight, and in fact the LMGs tuning patch was supposed to buff again the MSW-R hipfire accuracy. Holy god, the MSW-R crosshair should be narrow like the TAR's crosshair. Add the fact the Orion has no drop, then add again the 0.75, consider it's the VS starting LMG so everyone has it... that's why VS HA perform so well. And that's why the Orion and MSW-R are not the same.
agreed, i loved the mswr when i used it (lets face it, a spade would feel accurate after the carv) but when i gave it another spin in VR when playing with VS and TR LMG's it felt pretty bad. Not only compared to the Orion but even to a couple of other TR lmg's. Im getting confused with the stats and how the guns feel so different to what people say they should do based on there specs???
I believe the MSW-R is inferior in hip fire capabilities. VS will tell you that doesn't matter because of the ALS, but that would leave us unable to use the foregrip, which as with nearly all TR guns, is almost mandatory.
This. I will say that I would be totally fine if the MSW-R was buffed to 60 rounds in it's magazine since that is TR's thing, and I think the Bull should be buffed to a 698 ROF because they should have the highest average dakka, but other than that TR's LMG's are pretty good.
"So much more accurate." In what sense? With the Orion, since it is has a straight up vertical recoil, you can burst fire more effectively than with the MSW-R. The MSW-R also have a random deviation attached to it. To engage at mid range(40-50m) with the MSW-R is a complete waste of time compared to the Orion. I'm just wondering what you(and apparently others) seem to struggle with when using the Orion? Is it that hard to pull down and resisting the urge to go full auto?
Stop dragging your mouse straight down when you use the MSW-R. Also, it's the Orion that has a random deviation since it has different values for min and max horizontal recoil.
Super useful comment, Captain Obvious. Also, it is easily managable unless you're bad. To restate my stance on this from another thread: I rather not nerf the Orion but rather make the CARV and MSW-R more interesting CQC options. Former should get the TORQ/Lynx treatment, and the latter should get improved hipfire to make the ALS somewhat useful. Or not, I do not really care about specifics but I make changes to TR because they're lacking where the other faction's are not. Let me be clear though, this would be a very minor buff...
The issue isn't that the CARV or the MSW-R is under-performing though. In fact the CARV had the second most kills in the game last month. The problem is that the Orion is far over-performing, as it combines the raw firepower of the CARV with some additional goodies. I tend to look at the Orion as the unholy offspring of the CARV and the NS-15M.
Actually, I just did a really in depth comparison between all empires LMG's. Average KPU for all BR's: Without directive weapons: VS>NC>TR With directive weapons: VS> NC >TR Average KPU for Q4: Without directive weapons: NC> VS >TR With directive weapons: VS> NC >TR Average KPU for BR100: Without directive weapons: VS> NC >TR With directive weapons: VS> NC >TR Average KPH for all BR's: Without directive weapons: VS> NC >TR With directive weapons: VS> NC >TR Average KPH for Q4: Without directive weapons: NC> TR >VS With directive weapons: VS> NC >TR Average KPH for BR100: Without directive weapons: TR> NC >VS With directive weapons: VS> NC >TR What that's telling me is that the BG is OP and the Butcher is UP (to the surprise of no one), but it's also telling that average KPH is pretty much even between the factions, while KPU remains a tossup between NC and VS for first while TR is always last. So it looks like the only thing that needs to be nerfed with VS is the BG (obviously) while TR needs some help with the Butcher (again obviously) but also when it comes to average KPU. The TMG-50, and T-16 really stands out as a bad average KPU weapons which would be the two I would totally start buffing since at high BR levels both the CARV and MSW-R are both performing quite well, both KPH and KPU at virtually all BR tiers.
