buy a decsent mouse. Orion's recoil pattern is straight vertical and (with a f.grip) non horizontal. while mswr has an awful right horizontal recoil, that makes it useless in 1v2 battles (a big useless smg imo) on the other hand, CARV has good standart recoil, with mixed hoz+vertical patterns with some practice and a laser sight 1v2 fights are ez.
Nope,the horizontal tolerance of the MSW is .55 which is way better than Orion which is .88 while the horizontal recoil of the Orion is .22/.22 and this is slightly better than MSW which is .225/.225 and any average player can account that
Go and check reddit,you are misguided Unless there are brandnew changes,those are the true numbers and justified there
I've already addressed this on page 1 of this thread, but let me clarify things a bit. If we're comparing just the accuracy of the two LMGs: The Orion has: Smaller min horizontal recoil (.2 vs .225), although their max H.R. is the same (.225) Smaller FSRM (2.25x vs 2.5x) No Recoil Bias ( 0/0 angle) The MSW-R has: Lower vertical recoil (.35 vs .4) Lower horizontal tolerance (.55 vs .9) tighter moving ADS COF (.35 vs .4) Faster muzzle velocity (580m/s vs 570m/s) The end result: Even though the Orion's FSRM is a little higher, it still kicks more after the 1st shot due to it's higher vertical recoil (.4 x 2.25 = 1, .35 x 2.5 = .7875) - +1 MSW-R After the first shot, the Orion's vertical recoil continues to be flat-out worse than the MSW-R's - +1 MSW-R The Orion's Horizontal Tolerance is almost twice that of the MSW-R, making it more inaccurate during sustained fire. This more than negates the Orion's horizontal recoil advantage. +1 MSW-R The MSW-R's pull to the right can make it hard to control during sustained fire to inexperienced players. In skilled hands it makes no difference out to ~60-70m. +1 Orion If you move at all, the Orion's larger ADS COF makes it even more inaccurate than the MSW-R. +1 MSW-R The muzzle velocity difference, although 10m/s higher on the MSW-R, is too small to make any practical difference. Let's call this even The onlyadvantage the Orion has in the accuracy department over the MSW-R is its balanced recoil. Everything else is either the same or an advantage given to the MSW-R I have, quite extensively, ever since launch (know thy enemy ). Both LMGs are sufficiently accurate to land 100% of your shots out to 60-70m or so w/ a foregrip. Past that, The MSW-R becomes noticeably more accurate, esp if you move at all or fire in bursts longer than 4-6 shots. If you're having so much problem with the MSW-R's pull to the right that it becomes less accurate for you than the Orion, I suggest that you probably need more practice with it, focusing specifically on how to counter that pull.. Given that you think it's crap beyond a mere 20-30m, I suspect this is the case.
The only VS that use the Orion are the ones that haven't finished unlocking the beetlegoose yet, both need to be nerfed.
ima HA, i go in hard and pull agro. and with Msw its nearly a sentence to rush in a 1v2 fire fight (esp when other HA counters you) +with that recoil pattern ur right side is a dead zone. so, in any aspect MSW-R is just an overgrown smg (als hipfire) while orion has greater accuracy due to simple vertical recoil and easly used at range with almost any scope and rail mod. tap fire maybe, but were talking 'bout full auto (cuz u aint gonna kill anyone on hossn or ameresh like that) LMAO, the fact that ur using a Br is making ur argument invalid.
The fun part is that you are still persisting by using the SAME phrase and the SAME word "invalid" although he has proven that MSW is generally more accurate than orion
What numbers tell you is basically they are very similar but MSW-R should be better when hipfiring due to better accuracy, SPA and Advanced Laser Sight. On the other hand Orion has the 0.75 ADS multiplier. If you go behind numbers and take some time for testing you'll see the MSW-R is a good gun, but hipfire accuracy even with the Advanced Laser Sight is nothing special: crosshair basically remains HUGE, Beyond 15 mts good luck with hipfiring, a lot of shots get missed. Moreover if you want a weapon for hipfire CQC you can still use shotguns and SMGs so the MSW-R remains a second choice gun. Many players eventually go for the foregrip in order to get better versatility on medium range. Personally I also believe the MSW-R feels much better this way, but of course one must give up the supposed-to-be hipfire advantage. On the other hand the Orion has the 0.75 multiplier, allowing to nullify the shield slowdown when ADS: it makes you hard to hit while you still keep all your accuracy. Which is a big benefit for such a precise and lethal weapon. End of the story: I think they're both ok, but probably the hipfire accuracy role of the MSW-R deserved a little bit of attention to be more emphasized. Concerning the Orion I think it's ok as it is, the problem might be instead in the ADADADADA movement. That **** is ridicolous and it should go away by adding strafe acceleration. And this is even more true if we consider how bad is this engine with hit detection.
In order to bring a valid argument to my post above: one just need to look at the archived LMG Tuning patch: MSW-R was in line for a hipfire buff. MSW-R Standing hipfire from 3 to 2.75 Moving hipfire from 3.75 to 3.5 Projectile Velocity from 580 to 550
Everyone has a high DPS LMG Everyone has an LMG with low recoil Everyone has an LMG with good hipfire Everyone can get an LMG with .75 ADS (Though NS) Only the VS have infinite ammo Only one weapon in the GAME has all of these traits at once, and you see no problem with this?
Orion, by far. The 0.75x ADS and simple recoil negate any of it's marginal inferiorities to the MSWR. And the Orion wins majorly over the MSW-R in a few places, and only loses in a few places by marginal differences. Further, there are a number of marginal places the Orion is better. In short: Orion, hands down. You also forgot to mention the lack of bullet drop on the Orion, which is a major factor in the weapon's long range and suppressed gameplay utility.
Yes. Majorly. The Orion is brokenly overpowered, as it is by far the #1 most kills weapon in the game, and beats the CARV by over a million kills in 2013 alone. It's the only weapon to get 3 faction traits at the same time, getting the faction strengths of VS, plus NS (0.75x ADS) and gets the bonus of TR's high ROF at 750 RPMs. The Orion will equal any LMG in the TR arsenale in a pure damage output test, and it will out-accuracy them most of the time too due to no bullet drop, and defensively, an Orion user will dodsge 50% more fire than any other HA, except one using the NS-15M. And then, the Orion will out damage the NS-15M out to 30m by a staggering 100 rounds per minute, easily securing the quicker kill. As far as the Betelgueuse (SP), I can't say much, except that it's an Orion that has infininte ammo. So, there's that. It still gets all the strengths plus never having to resupply, ever. So, there's that... so yeah, it needs the same nerf. I would propose that if the Orion only had a 45 round magazine, it would STILL be the number one LMG in the game. THe Orion is a better CQC AR than the T1 Cycler, and a better CQC Carbine than the TRAC-5. Explain that? Because the kill stats say so. IF the Orion were to be given to any other class than the HA, I would still use the Orion. (Or it's Araxeum variant, the infinite ammo monster). I have never seen a GODSAW, or Whatever The HEll the TR Get. But I run into the Betelgeuse at least twice a play session. Says something about the Orion being overpowered and overperforming if people will go that far to get a "Better" version of it. Which is ridiculous.
I just had a quick go in VR with some TR and VS LMG's And to be fair the Orion and the SVA are vastly superior to anything the TR have. Maybe thats just how it feels to someone with no skillz, but they are easy to control and rounds land on target for clumsy me. The polaris was good - about as good as the better TR weapons and the ursa felt pretty bad. On the TR side i actually liked the TMG50! but noticed shots were landing everywhere but the target (and in combat its just poop anyway). I was surpised with the MSWr - I really liked this gun when i auraxed it, but trying it again at the 40m line it wobbled uncontrollably. I dont get how stat wise its better than the orion - yet handles so much worse? And wow, the VS have great reflex sights - and even the iron sights on the orion good.
If the Orion is "brokenly OP" then the MSW-R and Anchor must be more "brokenly OP" since they're performing better than the Orion, both in aKPU and aKPH.
Then every TR weapon has even more crappy recoil. I would trade the recoil pattern of all TR LMGs for that of the Orion. Vertical recoil doesnt matter since it is pretty easy to compensate for. And Orion doesnt have any noticeable horizontal recoil.
TR LMG/Carbine/AR's with both a lower horizontal tolerance and lower horizontal recoil: T-32 T-16 TMG-50 CARV-S AMC Cougar Lynx SABR TORQ
yesterday i was kinda surprised... i tested the orion for the first time on my VS alt ( BR 5 or so but whatever) and i destroied TR with it. i peformed way better with the Orion then with the MSW-R and i used the MSW-R even longer then the Orion ( i main TR). its just way easier to aim at ppls head with it and keep it at ppls heads on top of that the RoF is insane on it ( 750 iirc) for how accurate it is... the 0,75 ADS movement isn't that op by itself but in combination with the insane RoF and the Accuracy you have with it makes it able to outpeform the MSW-R and other LMGs and thats what makes it op ( as in over peforming) imo. i know many VS ppl will start crying because i use the word "nerf" but tbh idc about them anymore... imo the orion shouldn't have such a high RoF in combination with its other traits ( high RoF is more of a TR trait anyways)
