Vanu bias confirmed?

Congrats for summing up all the stuff that has been refuted already.
-flash weapons kills slower than fury
-whatever that best weapon for newbies is
-you mean the one that is heavily gated and almost nobody got? the one that only the most experienced players have which in return screws up any statistics?
-what is competitive tank play? Is that only happening around hills or on long distance with enemies that obviously are much less skilled/experienced? Is it only happening with 2 players in each vehicle?
Does it only happen when the vanguard shield is on cooldown?
-Dogfighting? That's the situation when both aircrafts hover in front of each other? Is that the situation that happens most of the time? No? Oooops. And in all other cases the scythe is the easiest to hit target? Ain't air always complaining about G2A keeping them out of the area? From which side does G2A usually attack? Hmmmm. And which aircraft got the nice self destruct button called "flipping when landing" included?
-Nights are not dark anymore and it's not like everyone else shimmers. Solved.
-Rocket launcher with the best range that nobody uses anymore cause it got nerfed. People tend to use good stuff. Basic rule.
-whatever you mean by bigger hull size. Lasher?
-Heat mechanic does nothing. Wait for cooldown or reload. The heat weapons overheat quit fast. If you are under pressure you will have to reload...if you are not under pressure you can reload any other gun as well. Go try such a gun yourself and you will see that it's not going to help you....except when you run out of ammo(which if you got some aim only happens to snipers. Everyone else has either an engineer, terminal or sundy around or dies before he can kill enough people to run out of ammo).
-The implant is that bad that you will hardly ever see it. Maybe with phaseshift snipers...but aside from the mandatory deep breath implant I think there are several others that are at least as good or better than cold heart whose advantage is so darn situational. Stop living in your imagination and start checking the meta(usually needs a month or so to settle) for what is really used. Again: People USE OP stuff unless it is heavily gated.

I tried explaining to these people already. The NC victim complex is too strong with them for any decent balance discussion.

If that server is Cobalt then it's currently at 29% for VS...cause we are getting closer to prime time and that means VS goes down to like 25-26% when there is no serious 4th faction going on(so no alerts). I usually don't play during prime time anymore, it just ain't worth it especially cause planetsmen seem to prefer an overpop situation and that means that VS gets hammered hard as long as no alert is going on(so you can basicly only play during alerts as VS right now...prime time Cobalt that is).

But of course, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Yes but obviously something made them stick with NC/TR though in Miller's case specifically TR. NC, to my recollection has only even had a brief period of overpop and even then it was only closer to like 40%. Also, during a time when 'nade and NC MAX spam were the meta. There were also long periods where TR/NC rested comfortably at around 38% each. Horde mode didn't last for years but months. When VS was 22-25% alerts were still manageable and successful with the unlucky few on other continents facing impossible numbers. Which in turn had a very demoralising effect. Another reason why people left VS.

So back on point, regardless of performance data (and I'm not saying VS underpowered... Alerts clearly know that's not the case) it doesn't matter if players prefer to play other factions. If performance was all that mattered then everyone would constantly overpop the faction which is perceived to be the best. You only really saw this in the form of how the different servers choose which faction to play during Server Smash/Lane Smash and here you could very clearly see what happened to VS after the ADS movement nerf.

If you think this collectively means VS are crybabies, go ahead, you do you. I doubt one more round is going move either's position and that's fine too.

Funny, that's exactly what everyone keeps pointing out about just about everything the VS says.

In a vacuum where you get to shoot a non-moving target that doesn't retaliate and you don't have to drive while shooting or make any evasive maneuvers? Yes.

Against any manned vehicle? No. As already proven the Starfall outperforms the Fury in every single metric. From KD to VKD to KPH to whatever you can think off.

How can it all be refuted if you don't even know what he's talking about? This is what's wrong with the VS statements: They assume stuff for no reason at all.

Also It's the Orion, it's the easiest to use starter weapon for the most used class giving the VS an unparalleled advantage as more of their players are effective from the get go.

What do you mean "heavily gated"? 1000 certs is heavily gated nowadays?

Competitive play is anywhere you aren't playing apparently. The Magrider is plenty good. My experience fighting them says so, my experience using them says so (such as killing 2 Vanguards with the old shield and they weren't newbs either) and the actual performance stats say so.

If you have trouble using your own tank it would explain a lot, as it would point out why you come up with all these "oh noes my VS" idea's.

This has been beaten to death so many times:

https://goo.gl/images/jwVtWG
https://goo.gl/images/NynxPv
https://goo.gl/images/NynxPv

The Vanu Scythe is:
72% of the Mosquito frontal area (28% less)
61% of the Reaver frontal area (39% less)
77% of the Mosquito side area (23% less)
63% of the Reaver side area (37% less)
116% of the Mosquito top/bottom area (16% more)
108% of the Reaver top/bottom area (7% more)

So unless seen from the direct top the Scythe is way, waaay more efficient. From the top the Scythe has at best 16% more, but as mentioned this only counts for a perfect vision from the top.For example from a 45 degree angle looking at the side and top the Scythe has 91% the surface area of a Reaver. Since perfect top shots are extremely rare and angled shots to the side are more the norm for multi-ESF fights the Scythe still holds the advantage.

Just to reiterate: Scythe holds a large multi-percentual advantage in full frontal combat, attacks from the side and attacks from anywhere but directly above.

VS still has better camo's that make them look like the other two factions.

It's still in use.

The bullets are bigger, making it easier to score a hit. For example Lasher, unstable ammo weapons. The waterpistol was on the OP side until they removed the headshot multiplier because the pellets were so big it was very easy to score multiple headshots.

Heat weapons often miss only a bullet or two from the magazine, the huge power of this is how much they cut down on vulnerability during reloads. Heat weapons will reload any time you stop firing without your input, and can be interrupted without consequence. This allows for far less downtime and far less danger when waiting for the heat to go down. So the downside is a few less bullets during a full hosedown, but in general combat a far superior capability to remain a threat.

The implant isn't incredibly good but it's not bad either. Also "mandatory deep breath implant"? Seriously I often even forget that you can hold breath in this game because the sway is often not very noticeable when you are moving about. You might use it for a fraction of a second when you spot a good target but why would you ever need more?

Sources: "Dude, trust me!"

Nice an hypocritical, you don't ask that question of anyone you agree with now do you?

Also, you can actually check this and find out it's true. For example I already posted the stats of the Starfall which proved it outperformed the Fury in each and every way and you can easily go check it right now on Dasanfall.

Also I've posted sources before, but people tend to do this thing called "Ignoring things you don't like", and anything that factually refutes what you've been advocating usually falls under that category so even proving without a doubt that whoever I'm talking to is 100% wrong usually ends with silence, ignorance or attempts to change the subject. For example with the Starfall the reaction immediately changed from "starfall is as strong as/weaker than the Fury" to "but you guys got OP stuff too" the moment I proved them wrong.

So why don't you go prove your points with sources? I have seen preciously little proving that Vanu players aren't biased or that the tools added to the game aren't biased in favor of the VS, while on the other end it's been proven time and again that Vanu players are biased and the latest additions to the game have had a staggering amount of VS toys that were superior to the NC and TR toys of the same line.

No, pre-nerf Canis was whole standard deviations above the Jackal and Gladius in KPH, KDR, and accuracy.
Only after the nerf have its stats started to normalize. Even still, it's a great weapon for infiltrators. With auto-aim ammo, your ambushed target has no hope of dodging your shots till you empty your magazine (a common tactic against ambushes).

Exactly, why do you want to refute something that is just a broad claim without any info? There is nothing to refute cause it says nothing at all.

Somehow you still seem to know what he means? I won't bother answering on some free interpretation of yours.

Ah, so you think you know which is the best HA weapon? I thought he meant the beetle...and that one is heavily gated behind 5 auraxium guns(6k kills...for most players that means like 400h+ playtime. For casuals that is a year of playing just HA...and that possibly with weapons someone doesn't like).

No my friend...the most common side you see an aircraft from is the bottom..and that is the same as the top. I don't know about you but I almost always see either the top or the bottom of an aircraft...I hardly ever see them just from the front or the side. Sometimes form the back if they are running straight from me...but someone that runs straight from me is much easier to hit than a twisting and turning target that may be a bit bigger target.

Yeah, VS can pretend to be others better than anyone else. That made NC so paranoid that they became the kings in TKing...now I heard it all. ;-)

I so wished Lasher would have a smaller bullet. It sucks that you can't hide behind anything cause your sphere will explode right in your face if you try to. Nobody needs large bullets with a gun that is meant to NOT be shot into someones face but at his feet. Explain to me the advantage there...
Which unstable weapon currently counts as OP and is not heavily gated(which again screws up the statistics)?

Yes, same counts for Baron. You can stop the reload anytime there to(it's not heat exclusive my friend, And a lot of weapons got a faster reload if you do not empty them). I just did auraxium that one. Helped me in about 2 situation with my 1160 kills. Big deal, no...really.

Yeah, you make headshots with a long ranged sniper weapon while moving and without holding breath...sure. What aimbot do you use...or are you one of those terminal camping heroes? If I get sniped down I almost always see them using target focus.

You make it sound like someone can aim at your feet and still hit your head. I think if DBG would auto-include unstable ammo in all guns and not announce it most of you would not even notice the difference. But it's huge in your heads...

The Canis is a spin up gun. If the other ambushes you then you got no chance...cause it can spin up. If you ambush him he got no chance either cause his gun will do way too little damage without the time to spin up. Unlike other spin up weapons in the game the Canis does not have a really large magazine tho. That means once you got the spin up going you got only time to kill maybe 2 targets before your magazine is empty...that goes down to one target if yo start the spin up before you run around a corner.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Canis...but I'm the kind of player that usually ambushes others and runs into full rooms...and I do not wait for others to come. So for me it is great but I know that it is very situational and I play into its strengths.

You know for all this 'gated' bit, we can always remember, TR & NC have directive weapons as well.
The TR Directive LMG, is in the same field as the VS Directive LMG; The VS one also scores murderously higher.
Since both have the same requirements to get; How is the VS one so much higher?
Hell, why is the NC one so much lower?

Since only 'experts' or farmers, have these directive weapons; We can see the highest rating players using them.
Who had to aux 5 LMG's, all three sides have done this; VS tops the chart.
VS screamed murder when an entire LMG class across all 3 factions, was adjusted.

So, we can actually look at gated weapons; Since, there's a equally gated weapon on the other 2 sides.
And of course, we can also look into the general pattern of VS weapons, TR weapons, and NC weapons,
Then look at recent releases; Which have been quite nicely in VS's favor.
VS calling their flash weapon, equal to a TR Harasser, as if it's meant to be a good sign... Should signal a problem.

Then we can look forum-side.
The VS Threads defending why Canis needed a head-hit-box enlarger, was also started & kept by VS posters.
There's the threads demanding VS weapons, even snipers be actually hit-scan (Not even TR or NC gets a thread like that)
The VS suggesting the Magrider should cloak ; Or have a shield that if hit amplifies their damage.
To the threads, demanding nerfs on NC shields to be unstable, to lower RPM further (as perfect accuracy is apparently deadly.)
Each of these, were defended & posted, & talked in a positive light... Not one identified VS declared an issue with any of those.

NC posts about the Phoenix keeping the reload; Gets shot into oblivion, by the above.
An VS weapon is over-preforming or accused; VS starts complaining, that everyone else should be nerfed.
An NC weapon is mentioned; VS Complains, and demands nerfs.

NC defends a weapon; Gets ragged on for 10 pages.
NC defends a statement; Gets ragged on for 10 pages.
NC suggest something positive for NC; Gets ragged on for several pages.
VS suggests buffing or throttling anything; 10 pages crucifying TR & NC.
VS Defends a weapon, even the Canis; Turns into a 'Nerf NC thread'

One rarely sees TR, at this point, posting anything.

It's called "common knowledge". When I say "starter NC LMG" I don't have to explain the Gauss SAW with the following stats [...]. If someone mentions the easiest starter weapon for the VS then there's one primary candidate. And again, you don't even know what he's talking about and still claim it's refuted.

You thought he meant the beetle? Seriously? He says "best Heavy weapon for the HA", there's only one VS heavy weapon: The Lasher. Otherwise he would have said "best heavy (assault) weapon for the Heavy Assault", which makes no sense.

So we are going for fantasies now? Allright, I always see them while riding a unicornmonkey with black rainbows comming out of their rear end.

Or can you show some video evidence of this wild fantasy?

And more fantasies, there have been entire threads about things like Giraffe Camo, look it up.

I could explain it to you but you wouldn't understand if I had drawings, diagrams, graphs and damned scientists explain it to you apparently. Larger bullets has disadvantages like hitting obstacles more easily, but it also hit enemies more easily. Big whoop but you just have to look at solely the disadvantage here because you can't get over the idea that something might be advantageous to the VS. Vanu inferiority complex strikes again!

It is exclusive for Heat weapons, because the Baron and Pump-actions all have a delay before the reload is interrupted and you can open fire and you have to manually force a reload.

L2P

The Fury is way more versatile in AI/AV and more capable in one clipping damaged vehicles since it does so much more damage per magazine.
like a lightning 15-20% Damaged = 1 clip.
a MBT 30% Damaged = 1 clip.
and only the Fury can 1 Clip + Deci-combo a MBT from the back.

But yeah, it's kind of weird that the three-pipe Handbag is the strongest Av weapon in the entire ES VS Arsenal right now.
I would rather have the Starfall on the Magrider and the Saron on the Flash.

but in the end, the margins Between the Fury/Starfall and the other guns right now are tiny compared to **** like this:

No. The Gauss SAW outperforms the Orion and the Magshot outperforms the Beamer.

So what is this "competitive play"? how did you gage that? Where are the stats for that? Was there a MBT Tournament that I'm not aware of and the Magrider won first place?
Or did this guy just made up a category to inflate his list because everyone and their mother knows that the Magrider is the wOrSt pReFormiNG™ MBT in the game since 2013?

and please show me a video of you destroying two BR100 preCAI 2/2 AP Vannys with reinforced side armor and Iwinshield head on.

Where are the stats that show that Scythes kill "waaay" more Mossies and Reavers?
The Scythe used to have an advantage in Hover dueling when SOE gave it the Noseguns with the highest muzzle velocities across the board.
But now they've all become homogenized (TTK, Muzzle velocities) so only ES thing left to compare right now are the A2G RocketPods and the A2G Nose guns...
and here, again, the VS are the worst preforming™ .

nonsense. That's the biggest weakness of the scythe... especially when ganking it, or interfering in a hover duel.
A hovering pancake with the biggest flak activation area, (was) the easiest to dalton and still the easiest to one shot with decis and tank turrets.

at best a tiny advantage that can only be actualized by a small percentage of the player base. And lets not pretend that hover dueling try hards have the same impact on the bigger picture than a Capture Point NC Max or a Vanguard in a main road armor push.
No Alert was ever won because of a bunch of guys hover dueling.

also, IIRC the reverse maneuver is a bug that wasn't even supposed to be in the game in the first place.
So remove the reverse maneuver bug or replace all ESFs with a common pool NS Fighter with NS only weaponry.

...and still the worst preforming ES Launcher in every category.

also the claim "highest range" is false.

so?
the Lasher is the worst preforming™ ES Heavy weapon in the game and Unstable ammo was nerfed and shrunk into uselessness.
why even bring those up?

I think most VS miss his point when he talks about starfall. He is talking about mag dumping and decloaked time. The ease of dumping one mag, doing stupid damage and then being in cloak reloading for another burst. It isn't so much the damage per second as it is the functional design between starfall + the cloak. At least that's what I gathered from his main argument. I could be wrong.

I will not argue a lot here, PPA is straight garbage when compared to Banshee and AH. Though IMO (and stats may go against me I haven't looked) Maelstrom is the easiest to use and least punishing with reload times.

Considering I already looked up the performance stats of the Fury and Starfall and found the Starfall outperforming the Fury on every single metric and that you made some other dubious claims all I can say is,


PROVE IT.

Even last night I almost locked weapons shooting at blue VS. I'm not even sorry at this point.

Well, that's cool and all, but like I said, for a FOTM Weapon the Starfall is not exactly setting the charts on fire.
call me when the StarFall gets like 1000-3000 more kills per day on average like tons of other AV/AI guns do when compared to their ES/NS counterparts.

eh, you obviously know were to look up the daily weapon stats... sooo help yourself.

As a dedicated infiltrator that has auraxiumed Phaseshift and half-way throuogh auraxiuming Obelisk I can certainly tell that heat mechanics doesn't give you any advantage in any combat situation. Both these rifles are extremely sub-optimal in CQC environments, so the only benefit is infinite ammo pool that allows me to stay autonomous for hours should I decide to.
But what makes it really good is that I don't need Amoo Printer implant and can swap it with something else (catlike is my favorite).

Ugh, it's a waste of energy to politicize game development this hard. 7 pages of "us vs. them" tribalism over video game factions, guys. We can do better.

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. The devs are human and there will be oversights in the design. The best we can do is behave and give constructive feedback. (That said, we really need more visible dev presence here so this doesn't just look like a place to argue amongst ourselves and nothing more)

Cause the TR one is crap and so experienced players won't use them even if they got it? We all know that guns that are introduced at the same time are not all equally good...compare the lasher to jackhammer...or lancer to striker right now.

Since when is the Fury a harasser weapon? I got it on my flash at least.

What we have is VS going down to 25% prime time. That's not because VS is purple...they always have been purple. That's because all their stuff was nerfed into the ground while we still have prowlers, vanguard shield, scatmax, striker and some other stuff pretty much OP and as part of the meta. And what do we see on forumside? People complaining all over the place about starfall and some heavily gated beetle...which both is not important in the meta at all right now.

The basic rule stays: The toys that are OP get USED...and the side that feels OP attracts the most players on the long run. You can come up with hundreds of flawed statistics and try to badmouth people, call it VS inferiority complex, gang up on them or play victim(which you aren't)...this one beats it all.