[Suggestion] Give Vanguard Shield a Downside

The biggest proof of the Vanguard stock chassis being weak (or the Shield propping the tank up - depending on how you want to look at it) was when the Vanguard shield was bugged and not working, the Van stats of that time dipped significantly comparatively to the other MBT and the Van when the shield was working.


Plus the Van has never (ever) outperformed the other MBTs statsitically no matter how you looked at it, always being on-par or slightly sub-par - the only place it apparently outperforms the other MBTs (and we only know this because SOE told us) is in surviablility.

I have properties of all tanks to back this up, because personal experience is not a hard fact. Neither is statistics because it includes all the players with all the loadouts. What i'm talking about is good tankers with proper AV loadout and 2/2 only. I don't care about stock or semi-certed or AI loadouts, and neither do i care about a) number of kills, since it is mostly about shooting infantry and noobs b) number of deaths, since it's mostly about noobs dying.

Van has longest average lifetime, tho, but since i don't care about statistics gathered by this, i won't rely on this. I rely on knowledge about maxed 2/2 av tanks engaging each other.

It's like constant complains of NC about their weapons which boil to "hard to use for new guys but high skill ceiling". I even see people calling gauss saw bad.

Can we see them?

Direct confrontations are a Vanguard's speciality. A Prowler is positioning and then pounding people to dust with it's anchor and the Magrider is positioning practically everywhere.
That means that if I try a vanguard on a mountain top, I'll be heavily outmanoeuvred by the magrider and destroyed. If I try to attack a base with a deployed Prowler, I'll be destroyed. If I let myself be outflanked one moment by either, I'll be destroyed.
When the Magrider or Prowler go against the Vanguard in direct confrontation, they will be destroyed.
They all have their own strengths. I'll never out DPS a prowler, deployed or not, who can destroy ****loads more than I'll be able to with my Vanguard. The Magrider can farm pretty much anywhere it can get a movement and/or hight advantage.
If you then suddenly try to destroy us on our own turf and fail, you should not cry on the forums.

did you know vanguard armor has no advantage while fighting AP magriders? yep, it takes the same number of shots to kill a vanguard than it takes to kill a prowler, meanwhile the prowler can kill a magrider in 11 seconds, while the magrider kills the vanguard/prowler in 18.5 seconds and the vanguard kills the magrider in 16, if the vanguard misses a shot it's dead unless it pops the shield.

The potential to win every 1v1 without having to do the first hit, even against already anchored prowlers, with a simple push of 1 button is maybe a bit easy compared to the other abilitys.

What does cant FPS mean?

Properties of all tanks are (a bit simplified): Magrider has the highest mobility with lowest armor/DPS, Prowler has the highest DPS with lowest mobility/armor, Vanguard has highest armor with lowest mobility/DPS. See, Vanguard is not the best overall, it has its up- and downsides. So... you think that the upsides of Vanguard give the tank an edge over the other two. But where is the proof that this is really the case? How do you compare the higher mobility of Magrider against higher armor/better ballistics of main gun of Vanguard, for example?

Firstly, fights between 2/2 AV tanks are only a tiny bit of gameplay in PS2. Being good here and being a best tank are two completely different things.

Secondly, there are just no evidence for Vanguard being the king in this discipline except the whole theory crafting a la "Let's say Vanguard and Magrider are fighting each other on the even terrain at 100m and think about the outcome".

Thirdly, according to basically every one "established" top-tier tanker who post stuff here and on reddit all three MTB's are quite balanced in the 1vs1 against each other. And yes, this is also the opinion of non-Vanguard tankers like Calisei, Schwak, Flag etc... So, as you can see, there are many opinions about the issue and yours is just one of them and it's not shared by at least some of the most experienced tankers in the game.

Which brings us back to topic: can you backup your claim with any hard facts regarding the performance of the Vanguard compared to other two MTB or is it just "I think that I am right because I think that I am right"-thing?

Ah, yes, the old fairy tale about the GodSAW which is only bad till you learn how to master it and it the beast afterwards. Would you like to look up the stats of the last server smashes and see for yourself how many of the top players from different servers decided to not use the NC6 and went for EM6/Anchor instead? I wonder why...

I found this one amusing. I guess the Prowler isn't a tank.

If a mag misses one shot and vangaurd misses 2, the vanguard still wins

You are degrading me, instead of trying to refute my argument? Oh great job big guy! My "giant useless post" as you quoted me contained things like "arguments" and "facts". Try it.

Here, let's do it again. Head to this site, I already mentioned it but you apparently weren't capable of looking for it (I can degrade too you know):
http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/
This site states all the statistics gotten from exactly a month. What do you see if you look at the stats of the MBT main weapons? The Vanguard is underperforming in direct vehicle kills and general kills compared to the other two, and significantly.

This is what backs my arguments up. The Vanguard has inherent abilities: armor, which isn't too useful, and muzzle velocity. As a non-inherant ability it has the Vanguard shield, which is an incredibly powerful ability, much more useful than the other two abilities which are much more situational. despite this the Vanguard is underperforming.
The Vanguard is underperforming, it's shield is incredible. It has got a DPS that is better than the VS and it's got a good muzzle velocity. Still it's underperforming. So what's left to point at as the reason why it's underperforming? The entirety of the NC tank pilots are bad at driving? That's illogical beyond belief. The only other thing left that I can think off, is it's inherant abilities.

Still with me? Or are you going to say "big ******** post" again?

I guess you don't know what DPS means.

That's why the vanguard is bigger and bulkier, so you don't miss XD

So what you are saying is that without the shield, The Vanguard is a fair fight and has a chance to lose based on a missed shot. But with the shield you are given two free shots to be absorbed with no problems.

NERF THE MAGBURNER!
If the Vanguard Shield is an "Instant Win button", then the Magburner is a "Get Out Of Trouble Free button".


See if this sounds familiar:
1. Sneak around and flank a Magrider.
2. Put an AP round right into the tail-pipes on of that magrider.
3. Magrider spins 180 before a second round loads on a max upgraded reload speed cannon.
4. Second AP round plinks the nose of the Magrider.
5. Magrider spins 90 degrees left or right and mashes his "Get out of trouble free button".
6. Magrider gets away through the trees or over a hill as your third round loads.

A prowler dies when caught in that situation. A vanguard dies when caught in that situation. The shield won't save the vanguard, only prolong the inevitable. The lock-down won't save the prowler before it's killed. Why should the VS get a second change when they get caught with their pants down?

Make the Magburner burn ALL of its fuel in one blast. Make the magburner unavailable until it fully recharges. Take away the magburner fuel gauge and replace it with a "Ready / Not Ready" indicator.

I mean, if this is the game the VS are going to play, I can play it even better. The magburner gives the VS an unfair advantage by allowing them to survive in situations where they should be destroyed.

No degrading here in the slightest, Im just saving forum space by removing the excess unneeded post.
Actually that doesn't back up your argument in the slightest. No where on the site that I saw did it say "Direct Vehicle Kills". Everyone knows the Vanguard does not excel in killing infantry. It makes up for that in its ability to kill enemy armor. Just because it is SLIGHTLY lacking in the infantry kill area does not warrant it having a completely overpowered godshield for a utility. So if you want to link something, How about you link something that backs up what you say, Because that site includes those vanguards who try to do AI farming despite knowing the Vanguard was not made to be an AI farmer, Its a vehicle killer.

The mag burner requires you to expose your backside to your enemy as well as losing all use of your front primary cannon to fight that enemy. Using it in a defensive manner to escape has massive risks and trade offs. Using the Iwin shield does not have a single risk, trade off or downside to it.

Prowlers Deploy Downsides: Become a stationary target that cannon move itself while deployed. Also takes around 3 seconds to redeploy.

Magriders MagBurn Downsides: Directional usage that if used defensively causes completely loss of your main turret for defense. You also expose your weakest point to the enemy.

Vanguards Shield Downside: None.

You mean besides the fact that once it's gone, you're dead meat, right?

I never see magriders turn their butt to me to escape. They turn left of right. They zip over the nearest hill to safety. They should be dead, but instead, they get off scott-free. How is THAT a down-side? They patch up, and come roaring back. And on top of that, their boost is now at least 1/2 charges which they use to jump behind my slow turning vanguard.

Not to mention, while they are zooming away, they are still blasting you with the PPA or Saron. Both of which do an amazing amount of armor damage for weapons that are so good at killing infantry. While we're on the subject, nerf the magrider secondaries too. Make them choose a role.

They shouldn't have use of that power-up for another 30 seconds. And when they use it, they shouldn't have control of it. It should go full blast for a full 7 seconds and when it's off, they have to wait another 45 seconds to use it again. Fair is fair, right?

Wanna trade your godshield for my magburn? Cause I would love to have an ability that had no downsides whatsoever. Actually... I have an idea... Im going to make a magrider thread today..

This thread has seemed to have already devolved but I feel like we can get this back on track. I agree with OP on this one. The vanguard needs a downside aside from "Time to use the shield" You can't deny that this tank hits incredibly hard and has a great range.

I believe that if you pop shield then it shouldn't be able to shoot back, or at least become slowed down slightly. Here are a reference of downsides to other MBTs abilities

Proweler (Lock down Mode):

Bonus: Fire faster/reload faster

Penalty: Stuck in one spot becomes extremely vulnerable to getting flanked/out manuvered

Magrider (Magburner):

Bonus: Easily escape danger, hill climbing, sweet jumps bro

Penalty: Can only mag burn in one direction, forward, meaning you must show your rear or side to the enemy in order to escape. In most situations the rear

Vanguard (Shield):

Bonus: Turning on the shield gives you increased "health" for a set time. Within that time you have the chance to fire off 1 or 2 devastating rounds into the enemy.

Penalty: Currently None. Cool-down time could be considered as a penalty but turning on the shield doesn't effect your battle capacity in anyway