Top 5 Vanguard Myths... with Numbers!

Again, that's a statistical anomaly, and a well-documented one at that. It's because very few people use the Canister (and the Vulcan and Marauder) compared to other options, so when it is used it's only used when kills are more or less guaranteed.

For example, say we have a Magrider and a Vanguard.

The Magrider drives around for an hour, and has a secondary gunner using the PPA for 40 minutes of that hour. This is because the PPA is useful at greater ranges than other AI options, so the secondary gunner stays in the seat instead of hopping out. This includes "downtime" where there's no infantry combat. The secondary gunner kills 10 people in that hour (made up numbers for this example).

The Vanguard also drives around for an hour, but has a secondary gunner using the Canister for 20 minutes of that hour. This is because the Canister is extremely limited in its effectiveness at range, so the secondary gunner seat is only filled when the Vanguard is engaging infantry at close range. So during "downtime" or even times where infantry are being engaged at longer ranges, the Canister remains empty. The secondary gunner(s) kill 6 people in that hour.

Doing the math, the PPA has a KPH of around 15... but the Canister has a KPH of 18... even though the Canister is much worse than the PPA. It's just how the stats break down if there are not enough people using the weapon over a long enough time.

You can see the same effect with sidearms, which have much higher AKPHs than primary arms. It's not that sidearms are better than primary arms, it's just that you only switch to your sidearm for short periods of time when kills are far more likely.

I figured as such, though I felt like pointing out something ridiculous for the sake of hilarity.

Yep.

High VKPH isn't the only thing you should factor in. The drivers with high VKPH might not be running with gunners at all, whereas someone like me has run with dedicated gunners ~ 90% of my time in the Prowler, which drastically lowers my KPH/VKPH. Furthermore, until recently, it was always beneficial (xp-wise) to let your gunner finish off the targets for you, and combined with someone like me, who can't really have fun unless my gunner is having fun, leads to a lot of "donated" kills. I also do this with the few random gunners I take along, as I also want THEM to have a good time.

Why should I have to give you a way to determine vehicle performance? I did not start a post. I am merely pointing out the errors of your methodology, which is a legitimate form of criticism.
Here's an analogy for you: When a football team loses, is it because of tactics or player ability? When an F1 team loses, is it because of driver skill or the vehicle/engineers?

It is silly to use player stats to determine the quality of a tank. You have to first prove that all other things are equal. Which is impossible, since the factions have different AV capabilities.

If what you're describing was unique to one tank, this would be a useful thing to point out. Since it's not and the Prowler still has this significant advantage, we don't have to worry about that because the trait you describe affects all tanks about equally and is already a factor in the resulting VKPH.

Exactly, hence the only reliable method of determining how the vehicles are performing is via statistical metrics. If one rifle is consistantly missing more than another rifle, getting fewer kills and score while the usage is about the same, then clearly there is something wrong with that rifle.
If one tank is getting fewer kills and score with more deaths than other tanks despite similar accuracy and usage, clearly there is something wrong with that tank.

You're basically saying "No you're wrong and I won't explain why because reasons" which is hypocrisy. You can argue the sky is purple without any reasoning and that doesn't make it legitimate criticism. So you're either trolling, or...well lets not resort to personal attacks.

I could say all stats you mentioned in this thread are statistical anomaly

A statistical anomaly is when something falls outside of the normal range of values. Since all of the statistics provided here are averages of large datasets that represent the whole planetside 2 playerbase, we have to assume they are not statistical anomalies unless there's reason to think otherwise. Chingles' reason for saying the Canister's performance is a statistical anomaly is valid due to reasons mentioned, but if you want to say all the stats here are statistical anomalies, you'd have to have provide pretty good reasons to back that up, you can't just assert it.

The problem with threads like these is that they have never helped in the past and don't help now because people really dont care about statistics. The vanguard has always been the most underperforming tank, even at the height of its shield power.

This obviously didnt protect it from being nerfed further into the ground, and the reason for that is feels.

People judge by feels. It doesnt matter that the vanguard is the worst tank and nerfing it more is ridiculous.

We have magrider and prowler pilots who feel like they've been robbed because of the "iwin" shield, even though of course they havent, and then they wine about how tough it is for them.

Also, ultimately, people dont *want* a balanced game. Oh sure, they like to pretend, but do you really think someone who mains a prowler actually wants a competitive vanguard? Of course not. So they'll use the shield as an excuse for further weakening an already dead in the water tank.

I LOVE stat threads, the numbers you guys find are just outstanding at times. Depending on what you want buffed/nerfed, the numbers always change to support your argument! I dunno how you guys do this but you never fail. And I'm always impressed.

inb4 flame

TL;DR

1. I don't know how to drive my tank
2. I don't know the strengths/weaknesses of my tank
3. I don't know how to flank
4. I don't know when to pop shields
5. I want to rush into battle without dying
6. My tank got blown up, Therefore it is UP

My analysis: I can't wait for vehicle hacking so you can see exactly what you are doing wrong

inb4 Vanu vanguards are OP

Best AV primary, best AV secondary, best armor, best ability, gee, i wonder when will those prowler drivers want a competitive vanguard instead of your underpowered crap.

After all the details presented here, the continued ignorance being posted by people denying the in-game performance stats is still pretty amazing. But then I realize I'm on a video game forum, and most of these people are probably children. I gotta find something better to do on my coffee break...

The Vanguard shield has never really been the problem. The Vanguard chassis is. A Prowler without Anchor is better than a Vanguard without Shield. A Magrider without afterburn is better than a Vanguard without shield. There lies the problem: The standard abilities inherent to the Vanguard. A Prowler has more DPS and higher speeds/maneuverability than the Vanguard, The Magrider has better maneuverability, improved stability while moving on any terrain and the ability to cross much rougher terrain that the other two tanks wouldn't dream of.

What does the Vanguard have? It has higher armor... that helps when attacked from the side but simply isn't enough. What else does it have over the other two? Burst-damage? We've established that a more constant damage is better overall than burst-damage in this game. The Vanguard basic frame needs better or more abilities that are inside whatever you choose.

It would probably be better to scrap the MBT ES abilities all together, then balance the MBTs at stock. The Vanguard shield is holding back the Vanguard, if the tank itself has to fall that much behind on maneuverability etc the shield isn't worth it. Take the shield away and give us something else, the price is too high.

You could.

But you'd be stupid for saying so.

Let's not mistake ignorance for stupidity.

After I've made two posts explaining the statistical anomalies with the Canister and Vulcan, I'm fairly comfortable with stupid at this point.

But you haven't made posts explaining what a statistical anomaly means. Not understanding that concept doesn't make you stupid on its own... only if you lack the capacity to understand that concept, then maybe stupid is the right word.

What? You were talking about getting ONE person from each faction to battle it out, and the person would be chosen solely based on their VKPH, if it was up to you. What you then answered isn't making sense, as VKPH is dependent on personal play-style (amongst other things) and can vary greatly, depending on what you find fun, and how you use your tank. This has nothing to do with the average VKPH of say, the Prowler in general. If that isn't what you meant, feel free to elaborate.