How do you feel about modern concepts like guns and Ninjas in EverQuest Next?

This holds true for the whole not wanting things to change being able to ruin games.
Red 5 with Firefall. I became a founder and participated in the game a good while and when I had a suggestion I was flamed and told that the game was fine how it was. After a while I gave up and just left since there wasn't really any change. But since they listened to all the people who said that nothing needed to be changed they have since pretty much stopped communication with it's players and not changing much about the game and instead keep polishing their main area with is rather tiny after a couple years of beta.

Hmmm maybe we need to suggest the neck beard thing for the female dwarfs?

What I don't understand is... how a few think simply excluding the gun, is completely holding the entire game back from any form of change or advancement. I understand some people just think it would be cool/neat, but it's as if the gun is the "holy grail" of changes.

What I've seen in EQN is that the world is not only changing... but it's permanently changing everyday you log in, either through rallying calls, earthquakes/disasters, or any other method they decide to use to destroy and create entirely new content constantly. I've also seen the removal of leveling in a linear advancement system, to a tier base horizontal progression system. Traditional class roles are also a thing of the past in EQN... so much so that through multi-classing any person can set them self up to fill whatever battle position/skill is needed for an encounter at any given time. There is also none of the stat gear commonly associated with MMOs. The gear information we have is still limited but, we know it wont add stats in the traditional sense, it would seem that what it will do is focus more on armor class, and specific ability modifications to allow for more effective use of the multi-classing system. Mobs/NPCs in EQN will also have some form of "actually intelligent" AI that will have a varying affect on how those mobs/npcs will act or behave on a day by day basis according to what is happening in the world around them, or who is attacking them or not... so much so they can literally wage war on a city or place. These aren't even the only changes going into the game either.. many more we just haven't been told about yet, and I've probably left a couple out that I couldn't remember off the top of my head. Dave Georgeson has even said that so much of how the game works has changed, that they are intentionally easing us into it by only giving us little bits at a time to fully digest before throwing even more on us.

So how exactly does excluding a gun graphic and sound effect, hold back all of the other newly implemented systems, advancements, and ideas already going into EQN? How does excluding the gun make EQN exactly like EQ1 or 2?

Additionally, I appreciate the fact that you do not want this game to fail.. I really do. However, I don't think any of us that have come to these forums, kept up with these topics daily, and posted as much as some have want the game to fail either. Some of us just simply have a different view of what could cause this game to succeed or not, and the developers are no doubt taking those things into consideration. I personally do not see a gun as the deciding factor in the success or failure of EQN, in my opinion it would be the same as saying ESO is going to be a complete failure solely because they didn't put in any guns.

Ugh i know exactly what you're talking about I beta tested that game as well. I was so excited for it but it had so many obvious flaws from the get go. Horrible optimization, serious lack of meaningful content, and as you said that really small main area just didn't cut it. But man heaven forbid i mention those things in the beta forums because all i got was "lolz its still beta!" "don't be a noob it's not even released yet!" and yet look at it now.

My other major letdown was Final Fantasy 14. I LOVE final fantasy I really really wanted it to do well. When I played the beta i was floored by just how AWFUL it was. I tried to make suggestions on how to better the game. I warned them multiple times it would fail if they released it as is. But I got flamed by the rabid fanboys for saying things like they should add the ability to jump because this is a modern mmo and really you should have the ability to jump as a basic thing. I got blasted for having the audacity to complain about the clunky UI and how it really shouldn't take me 2-3 different clicks to cast ONE spell. Or complain about how it's so blatantly obvious that the world map was cut and pasted so many times. Or about how it just MIGHT be a good idea to have an auction house.

I literally could go on and on and i did on forums and ingame. I can't tell you how many people called me a carebear for asking for those changes and accusing me of trying to make the game more like wow..... So I gave up trying and didn't buy the game because I know a failure incoming when i see it and i'm pretty sure everyone knows how awesomely well that turned out. It is nice to see that they eventually removed there collective heads from there ***** and realm reborn is at least a decently good mmo now. They almost got me to play it again but they neutered the summoner class and ruined any chance of me wanting to play it again ...sigh...but I digress. So yea i'm not too fond of people who are not willing to listen to ideas for no other reason than how dare I suggest anything that would sully the integrity of there precious mmo.

It's pretty simple really. I'm not saying not having guns...ect will "hold back" or "make eqn exactly like eq1 or 2" That's not what i'm saying at all. What i'm trying to tell people is by keeping those classes out of the game or races for that matter because I see the same issues in the small race thread , is that you are excluding people from the game that might have played it had EQN had the option to begin with. I personally couldn't care less about ninjas or guns as I would never play one I have no interest in it at all. All I am interested in playing is a wizard and or sorc "whatever they choose to call it". That is all I have EVER played in every mmo I have played, it's my thing it's what I love to play.

Now imagine your favorite thing to play is a shotgun wielding hunter, you love it you truly enjoy playing it....but EQN doesn't have it because people voted against it. Guess what? You just lost a sub, you just lost potentially A LOT of subs, but you will never know because it was never put in. If they told me tomorrow that I couldn't be a wizard in EQN I don't care if reviewers hailed it as the next coming of Jesus I would have ZERO interest in playing it because if I don't love what I play and I don't love my character then what is the point? This is a game that I would be playing for YEARS. Why should I invest the time/money/effort if they don't have what I really want to play because little timmy decided that wizards don't belong in HIS game.

Is it fair that because you or your buddies think ninjas/guns are stupid that everyone else now doesn't get to make the choice? I don't. Does it really detract from your personal gameplay so much that you honestly wouldn't play the game because they are in it? I highly doubt it and if the answer is yes to me that's insanely selfish and a bit crazy. On the flip side would you still play EQN if your favorite class/race was not available and never would be? I wouldn't and I don't think i'm alone in that. Some might say they would play anyway but many more would pass I believe and stick with whatever mmo provides them with what they want. I want EQN to do well. In order to do well they need money, in order to make money they need subs, in order to get subs you need to provide what people want, you need to provide people with options, alternatives, ect. Don't limit the game and what it could be because of personal hangups about "lore" or what fantasy "should be". These things are game killers. Don't kill EQN.

There in lies the biggest problem with this thread. Our opinions on the game mechanics have become so deeply buried that at first glance most of us, myself included, appear to be completely anti- change to anything and everything non EQ. That just simply isn't the case.

I can only speak for myself here, but I do believe I share the same sentiment of the "anti-firearm" crowd. I want a total revamp of the mechanics seen in today's MMORPG. I'm tired of the level grind, the out-leveling of content, the expansion race and subsequent boredom that comes from it. I want to see a groundbreaking game that pushes the boundaries of today's technology and challenges how everyone looks and feels about MMORPG's in general. I want to see Horizontal Progression, not vertical "regression".

The change that I am against is any that would destroy the setting of Norrath. The Everquest IP has been a firearm free environment up until this point and I don't see any value gained by adding them. Its actually one of the few things that separates Everquest from dang near every other MMORPG out there now. I have taken "modern concepts" to mean culturally hot topic and popular concepts in the media. "Shooters" are popular. "Ninjas" are popular. "Pandas" are popular. Some modern concepts I've been swayed on, but others (like guns) would do more permanent damage to the setting of Norrath; making it almost indistinguishable from any other game world out there.

Several years from now, EQN will hopefully be heralded as innovative, inspiring and a "tock" on the development cycle of MMORPG's, not just another "tick". When that happens, others will pay attention and will copy. Blizzard will release their clone MMO with SOE's 4 pillars rebranded into their WoW IP. Ninjas, Mechs, Guns, Jet Packs, The Kardashians and the Real Housewives of Ogrimmar will all be proudly displayed. Good for them and those that like that setting. SOE has always placed alot of emphasis on the setting and lore behind the Everquest franchise and its that immersion that brings me back to Norrath.

Please though, don't think my aversion to guns in Norrath somehow equates to wanting the failed MMO pattern seen for the last 10 years. I want change and lots of it! Just not the "modern concepts" that will sometimes be fluff, but sometimes do more to negatively change the immersion value of Everquest. In my opinion, guns would do that.

I want to hear the familiar laugh of an Everquest Skeleton, not the "boom" of RandomMMOGun.

I can't argue against that point on a business model end. They need subs to maintain and make the game grow. I do think there are certain expectations that do come with game franchises though. I'll use your wizard example. You only play wizards, and for the most part I only play paladin/shadowknights. Should I realistically expect a wizard or paladin class in MW3 or CoD? I can't expect holy warriors to be in every game out there simply because I like them. Do I play CoD though? No, but I still have the game in my house for others to play.

WoW is the most successful MMORPG to date, but its not the best anymore. Its been marketed to so many different play styles that's its become bland and irrelevant. Their playerbase is hemorrhaging to niche MMO's because no one game can do everything for everybody. I do appreciate your desire to make EQN the best game out there, we just may not agree on how to get it there.

If I wanted to play a shotgun wielding hunter, odds are that I'd be playing Cabela's Dangerous Hunts, not EverQuest.

One major problem I have with guns, is it shows the evolution/application of science in the game. Where as if you have guns, you must then have kegs of gunpowder/dynamite of some form, bombs, cannons, etc, where does it stop?

I will just have to agree to disagree with you then because I don't see adding ninjas/guns as such a huge leap as to be game breaking. Giant mechas maybe...although it would be pretty sweet if you did it as a steam punk thing that are created by gnomes.....hmmmm

But what if the boom was aimed at the skeleton and you heard this :

http://soundfxnow.com/sound-fx/bushmaster-acr-shot/

http://www.rozziland.com/eq/skel_die.wav

I dunno about you but I think that would be pretty awesome.

lol

I don't think it would be any huge leap or game breaking either and i expect that if and when they add them, they will have a lot of aspects that support it. I would really like to see how they would blend the fantasy/firearms aspect in EQN. I think what they could come up with would be pretty cool.

I seriously think we need to add this to the game now that I saw the word Mecha

I am going to F*up Norrath so hard with this. Dragons are never going to see this baby coming. Like zoom, drop in, bam, pow, zing slash..Dragonkin Barbeque is served. Mmm, yeah.

Lol, at least Voltron used a sword!

Space Battleship Yamato and Science Ninja Team Gatchaman were some of my early favorites

I just spent the last 20 minutes looking up how much it would cost me to get the entire original voltron set. Thx for that. God i wish i had kept mine.

Well, look at the example of the internal gun again. And think how that could be implemented, you should see the issue.
EQ, has always been about the heroes who rise above anyone else and save the day. Not about equality, there would be no bosses, instead you'd fight armies, Cause everyone's the same (you could argue that there are beasts that could be bosses, a big game hunter would disagree. Also bullet-spongy enemies are terrible). If it would be like you imply. You're a hero, you're special in everquest.

I've seen you mention that before, that nobody talks about ninjas, only guns.
If somebody wants to talk about Ninjas they will.
Edit: You can always go back and have a look what i wrote about the ninja, if you care that much.

TLDR (SPOILERS ):

• Claims of invalidity based on lore are invalid because of lore change/timeline/universe/dynamics
• Poll numbers are closer than initially believed due to response wording
• Pro free-speech/free opinion/free internetz (because of reasons )

"I've as much to say on this forums as anybody else does and since you dont understand fundamentals you should prolly just remain silent."
I've as much to say on this forum as does everyone else...you should prolly just remain silent?!!? It appears as tho it is you who doesn't understand fundamentals...of the internet. Or free speech. Not to mention game developing (see, I DO make jokes). You must be new .

"Every argument about lore, history, gameplay is out of line here... therefore invalid."
"Why? -Because lore has changed, history bends around fantasy, and gameplay mechanics can be done eitherway without any loss."
It honestly doesn't get better than this. Two posts that bascially juxtapose your whole argument. Let me explain: If lore is still in development, then everything is on the table. History bends...so why not in a pro-gun direction. Or anti-gun direction. Or alien invasions. History bends around fantasy, and fantasy is limitless, and especially in a game like this with everything free, nothing is invalid. Except your point that every argument is invalid (because then every post on this forum that deals with lore is invalid, therefore nixing every argument about whether lore could support guns or no guns...undermining the purpose of this forum (how's THAT for some existentialism)).

"Guns or no guns is a question of immersion, of taste...of either like or dislike."
I like because I believe progress and dynamics are essential to the believability of a civilized society. You dislike on grounds that fantasy...well, everyone has an opinion on fantasy, so I honestly, in good conscience, can't presume your reasons, I just wanted to clarify mine so there is no confusion. So I agree with you on this, that it is a matter of personal preference (tho i don't get your point in adding this as a point to ur argument).

"'huge' gun crowd is fairly little compared to the anti-gun crowd. Thats a fact you overlook.
I've seen many gun polls and all went clearly in the same direction."
Please. Overlook. They show you the results of the poll after you vote, how do you overlook that? Let's not shut our eyes to reality and dismiss out of hand. And here's something you seem to have overlooked (play on words, don't get your knickers in a twist): the wording of the responses. Let's look at the polls response wordings and then the percentages. You have 1 negatively worded response, 2 positive responses, and 2 unsure responses (with one that could be led in a very positive direction. Anything can be a "case by case" basis, which means guns and gunpowder will somehow work their way in there.) So if we do a count with the percentages (circa. Sept 09, 2013):

Of Negative responses: 47 percent
Of 2 Positive responses: 33 percent
Of 1 Careful application: 18 percent
Of No Opinion: 2 percent

Now don't get me wrong, 15 percent is nothing to sneeze at, but if you count those with careful application (reading the as being accepting with proper application. I have faith that the dev team will obviously be careful with the application here, otherwise they wouldn't ask the question) then the numbers actually show a 3-4 point lead at 51% (give or take, there were some decimals present earlier). Now, this is a close margin, and is a presumption of many responses, as not everyone may believe guns belong in certain scenarios (tho they have indicated acceptance of it; isn't freedom of opinion grand?). As you seem to have researched this topic heavily, I would love to see these other polls and read those opinions (#genuine)

Whew, turned out to be much longer than I had anticipated (to the peanut gallery of this flame war, I apologize, I'll be more cognizant of casuals when spouting my ideals/thoughts/opinions in the future ).

Oh! one more thing:

have a nice day
You too!

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