You want to see why Guardians have something to complain about?

Brawlers didn't compare themselves to Guards, they just pointed out the flaws in the combat system with defense buffing and guardians did this the best so ofcourse they were used as an example, there was many other issues before LU13 and many highly benefitted the guardian so yes the guardian was hit the hardest when things changed.

this is a funny post yall are complaining that someone else does more dps then you do and now yall wont say yall are...thanks for the laugh i needed this.
and for rogues gettin agro...first off why would they want to unless they are going to do ruse...they are scouts and do the best damage at the creatures butts. they can steal agro when the cleric or mage is gettin hit off of them...they also get other ways to make sure the mt is the one who getts agro again.

Dananeb wrote: Brawlers didn't compare themselves to Guards, they just pointed out the flaws in the combat system with defense buffing and guardians did this the best so ofcourse they were used as an example, there was many other issues before LU13 and many highly benefitted the guardian so yes the guardian was hit the hardest when things changed.

B.S.

Ummm YES they most definatly were. Go back and look at the pre LU13 posts and come back here and tell us that again. Guardian tanking ability was consistantly compaired to other fighter and especially Bralwers.
Dont reply to this post with a simple... Well WELL prove it. Do the work yourself.

Yes Monks were definatly very vocal about their Guardian envy. Specifically, the buff stacking effect that allowed guards to max out Mit and avoid. It was a bug, exploit, not working as intended, and only noticable in an end-game raid situation (i.e. .5% of game content at that time). In stead of fixing it, the whole combat system got scrapped.
Now, the only reason anyone has for guardians to not be ballanced as a tank is the fear that we will once again be the preffered tank. SOE has stated that this is not going to happen. However, something must be done to level the playing field again. It is unfair that guardians are a specialised tank and perform the tanking roll equal to all other tanks. There needs to be tertiarry (other than primary) rolls for guardians to fill. We dont care what they are, but they need to be there. We need the utility and DPS. All other tanks have it. We need it to be equal.

mastersardis wrote: We need the utility and DPS. All other tanks have it. We need it to be equal.

Correct. And to those non guards about to jump on his post saying .

" Well well you can have DPS and Utilitly if you give up your taunts or give them to us.. hu huh what about that."

GET with it. First you have the same level of tanking ability as us... Moorgards words not mine. If you feel that is not correct take it up with him on some other thread. Secondly you have FD, RES, MEND, EVAC, INVIS and a mirriad of other skills. Giving us one or two or even something unique is not going to make you obsolete or even unwanted so chill out.

Message Edited by Warbird1 on 01-05-2006 12:01 PM

I should know, since a lot of it was contributed to me and my posts. It was only referred to as guardian envy by guardians. Although calling it that does provide some good insight - since I was ranting about broken mechanics and guardians themselves said I was envious of them because of said broken mechanics, it wasn't too hard to see who was benefiting from the broken stuff, eh?

When you come to the Guardian forum to stand on your soapbox and site an imballance in tanking ability, then how else should it be taken? You were here, in our forums, asking for us to be "brought in line" and pointing out the buff stacking bug. You can backpedal all you want, but you singled out the Guardian Class by coming here.

Do you want to know why I first started coming here? It was a thread titled something like "why do other tanks have Guardian Envy". Prior to that I hung out mostly in the monk and general gameplay forums.
After that thread, I became the poster boy for guardian ridicule, as the thought a monk wanting to tank epics was a laugh at best.
Oh and don't act like its just us over here, there have been guardians posting outside of these forums about guardian (and other fighter class issues) forever.

Well i found a nice early post from Gaige , so i thought i'd share it with my fellow guardians . Since alot of you have not yet clued into his constant lieing and baiting.
He who stated that he read from day one that all fighters should tank equally - this was the vision of SOE. just read his post below.



Tanking AbilityOptions UmbralVoyager
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Posts: 40
Registered: 11-11-2004


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I'm currently a level 17 Brawler, going Bruiser. The only other Fighter(and part of my main levelling group) in my guild at the moment is also a Brawler. We tank pretty well now, but I've been hearing that the evasion ability of Brawlers doesn't cut it when compared to the damage mitigation of the other Fighter classes once you reach the mid-high levels. Is this true? Will we be screwed when attempting to take on high end content?
11-14-200405:42 PM

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Re: Tanking AbilityOptions Gaige
Fanboi
Posts: 7792
Registered: 11-09-2004


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Bruisers/Monks are more for DPS than tanking, especially past 25.

11-15-200403:31 AM

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Yup, 6 days after release. I thought that until about lvl 25 or so.

You aren't doing anyone a favor by bickering about utterly irrelevant points like the one above. Who gives a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] who compared themselves to whom way back before LU13. You are entitled to compare your class to Santa, Bush, or Moorgard's dirty underwear if you can argue that such a comparison is reasonable. Now, "They did it first!" isn't a particularly compelling argument; conversely, "We are part of the same archetype and thus should be balanced," most certainly is.
At any rate, let's move on and talk about the very real balance issues we guardians are still dealing with and let's ignore the brawlers and others who are trying to derail a cogent line of reasoning, drowning good points and suggestions in an ocean of inconsequentiality.

So because you changed how you saw the class , You think SOE should change the class to what you thought it should be.
You obviously didn't start the class thinking that you would be an equal tank.
I thankyou Gaige for finally being honest that you didn't start a Monk to be an equal tank with the Guardians
Message Edited by Drulak on 01-06-200609:52 AM

I will add my 5 cents as to why Guardians now are **** and why we should complain.

I wanted to play the class which was the best tank in the game.. it used to be guardians until the expansion. Now its zerkers.
Why? Simple.. Guardians have not been granted any additional dps with tier 6.. We still hit as if we were 50, more or less.
With our low dps we cant hold aggro good since there is not enough taunts to compensate for the low damage we do. A nuking wizard or ranger can easily grab aggro if they nuke hard.
Im in Cadre, top raiding guild on Toxxulia and we always have a berserk tanking since they got pretty much the same taunts but also do a lot more damage so he can hold aggro better.

So, guardians are supposed to be good at tanking, but since we now pretty much suck we are allowed to come along on raids as dps.. what a joke.. dps is simply LOUSY.

Second reason why we should complain; We can hardly play solo... I have all spells at adept3 or Master1 or 2. All armor and jewellery is T6 crafted and T6 fabled.. When soloing in Living Tombs the other day i ran in to 2 groups, lvl 51-52. I attacked one of the groups and with 2 of the mobs remaining i had to flee.. Once they had reset i noticed a guildmate berserk in the area so i asked him to help me out.. He rushes in and pulls both groups at once. Need I say he killed both groups on his own without breaking a sweat?

So I cant solo, I cant DPS, and I can tank but not as good as berserks.

At this moment im pretty pissed off for beeing so lame and when I later that day hear from a ranger friend of mine that he just managed to solo Scornfeather Roost I logged off and havent played my guardian since.

The way i see it SOE wants ppl to keep playing since we pay for this game so I just cant understand why they would screw an entire class over like this?

Im now playing my alt warlock from time to time hoping SOE will do something about this.. If they dont.. well, Vanguard is coming soon.. =(

/sigh
I've said this 200,412 times, but I'll say it again, for you:
EQ2 was my first true grouping MMO where players had roles, such as the tank. My first MMO was SWG where you could pretty much solo any mob in the game and you only grouped to PvP with had no tank.
When I first started playing this game, I played it in a duo with a really good friend of mine. He quit at lvl 20 and I started playing in pick up groups. He was a ranger and I was my monk, obviously. I "tanked" for our duo, but I really didn't have any idea what I was doing. Once he quit and I started playing in pickup groups, most of the players had that old EQ1 mentality and so I defaulted to DPS.
During the xp grind DPSing is certainly easier than tanking as you can just sit there and hit CAs.
At about lvl 25 or so I met another monk (who ended up being 1st WW to 50) he had played a lot of EQ1 and he always was MT on his monk. He was doing things on his monk that people didn't think were possible (tanking high oranges in RE at 33).
After talking to him and watching him tank as a part of his group, I started reading some old EQ2 stuff from eqii.com and other things and I changed my mind, correct.
You have it backwards though. I didn't change how SOE envisioned the class, I changed my mind and agreed with SOE. They didn't make the monk class a lesser tank in EQ2, things were simply broken.
Once I realized that and what my role was supposed to be, I started asking for things to be fixed so my class could perform its intended role.
Thanks.

That's exactly what we're doing.
The differance is, you had a class that was useful before the changes, as a group tank and non-tank(DPS, Utility). We are now equal tanks, but have no other usefull, non-tank abilities. I know, you support guardians getting looked at, ballanced, whatever. You've said that. But for every non-guard that concurrs, there are a dozen trolls hanging around waiting to pounce and debunk, derail, and dillute the issue.
Most Guards are now on the same page. We know we arent going to get "best tank" status. We only want to be equal in the other areas to make up for not having an edge. We need a non-tank roll. We need solo-ability. We need non-combat utility.

Ok someone asked for this back on page 1. They are arranged by level, and this picture is quite old, so I have most of these master now, maybe I'll update it later on.

very nice post thanks :smileywink:

I can see dev have done great work and the game is well balanced

Some examples :
- Quarrel / Inflaming defense : No snare for bruiser
- Stone deaf /tower of stone : 3hits for bruiser&guardians, nothing is destroyed for bruiser
- Devastation fist / Unyielding will : programmed died vs Stiffle for 8seconds for bruiser
- Eye Plunk / Relentless charge : decrease slashing/piercing etc of 40 for bruiser vs....11 for guardians

And I don't speak about utility (cure, stun(=mez?), fd, heal, safe fall) and dps and flavor... I don't understand how any developer could supposed this game is not balanced.

Great job, yes great job, thanks soe.

Just to show you that its not excatly the way you put it.
Message Edited by Dananeb on 01-06-200606:04 PM

But the question is not to ask a Bruiser's nerf... I only want to shed in light that guardians needs some love... 125th days of silence is a very hard punishment for Guardians'community...:smileysad:

Amen, I dont want my bruiser nerfed, I just want my guardian brought up to an Equal levl in dps and utility. If by giving examples of the imbalance in the current game others are nerfed or "precieved as nerfed" then welcome to the pinata club.

Rahge