Why I think RoK factioning is basically unfair to pure crafters.

Skivley101 wrote:

Yes, they put in recipies for all tradeskills at the 20k and the 30k faction marks for the 3 main factions in kunark. Provisioners i guess are the luckiest cause we have one at 10k inaddition to the other 2 i mentioned.
Your second comment, to my knowedge and i can be very wrong. Normally they will have atleast 1 high level character and then the rest of the crafters will be lowlevel. FOR example I have this char who is level 80 adventure and also a level 80 provisioner, I also have a level 20 adventure who happens to be a level 80 sage. It also isn't impossible to gather as a lowlevel adventureer even in the higher tiers, but you will die more often. Some like the "thrill" of doing this. /shrug Their choice not mine, but I will help defend their choice of how to play.

Ohiv wrote:

There are some who prefer crafting vs adventuring or are adventuring, by choice, at glacial speed. It's just a different playstyle.

The player who is a so-called "pure" crafter who has zero high level adventurers but one or more high level crafter
does exist, but that particular playstyle is even more in the minority than the most hard core of hard core raiders. That doesn't mean their playstyle is wrong, just that most players play a wider range of the game.

It is far more prevalent (especially with 2 years since the last level cap increase), even with heavy crafters, to have at least 1 high level adventurer (high to include anything 60+) with 1 or more low adventure level / high crafter characters.

Skivley101 wrote:

True, Skiv.

To answer your question for my situation...

I played a bit at the start of launch, got my Paladin to L27. But around there or so I stopped because I was dissatisfied...I didn't know the class then as well as I do now. I had run into a problem with gouging crafters on Antonia Bayle server, began to craft utterly out of self-preservation. I started alchemy on my Paladin, and my then Monk I made into a Sage. The Paladin I retired and she became crafter only, same for the Monk. I had others that I started and stopped as my spouse went thru altoholism, and I made each one into a crafter to further outfit my family's toons.

I bounced between City of Heroes MMO and Everquest 2, giving CoH more of my time. Then that MMO began to suffer from severe nerfage which eventually made me quit totally and come to EQ2 full time. By this time I had been working the crafters to keep up with my family's toons, but then began full time crafting. We hopped servers from AB to Unrest, and have been there for the last two years. After we moved, I started a Warden who became my main and is currently L80. The other toons were all retired adventurers turned crafters. I had deleted the Monk/Sage I had, then restarted the Sage again with one of the retired toons. All of them healers I had started to run with my spouse save for another try at a Monk under the new progression of going straight to the subclass of the class, no more of the running thru to L20.

I had my adventurer, my Warden whom I made a Weaponsmith. We started a guild, and one of the new guildees was an Armourer, and he surpassed my own so I deleted that one and Kudail took over that slot. I had eight crafters.

So that's why my crafters aren't adventurers as well. I have a main who's a Weaponsmith. The retired toons are 2 Wardens, 3 Furys, and a Monk. The Alchemist was retired and I had an urge to play a Paladin again, so dusted her off. So that's two adventure/crafters and 6 pure crafters.

Over the course of my time in Everquest 2, I had more time on my hands to do the crafting, more than I do now. As you can see in my sig, I've an online comic that I do. I'm the writer and artist for the comic. That takes up a lot of time. I'm online using photo reference sites as I work, and come thru here during breaks I take. I play about 3-5 hrs a day, sometimes longer on my spouse's days off.

Anyhow, that's how it is for me.

If you level the crafting aspect of your character first, you will have to do the 279 faction writs to earn the recipes, and then do the adventure writs to level your adventuring aspect and earn the adventure rewards.
If you level the adventurer aspect of your character first, you will only do the adventure writs as the recipes are given out on the same faction merchants. By choosing to level adventurer first the character bypasses the need for any crafting effort in gaining the crafting recipes.
No matter which choice a player makes the task list should be the same. The player who chose to level their adventurer aspect first rightfully should have an easier time harvesting the materials needed for the writs and traveling in agro areas. However they should not be given a free pass on expending the effort to gear up their crafter with some of the most coveted recipes available. Effort versus reward should be the same no matter which you chose to do first.

Rashaak wrote:

Huh. No one here ever said pure crafters deserved special treatment as crafters. That was never the point of this discussion. It was your argument that they did not, but so what. You are arguing something that isn't being debated.
Again, people are not whining. The OP in this thread made some very valid arguments. Nothing you have said proves that factioning is not basically unfair to pure crafters, which was her original premise.
Funny, you should ask if I failed basic math. It reminds me of the humorous and friendly comment recently made on this forum that asked "failed basic math, did you?" Second time around and rehashed, it is not quite the same. Now, here is some basic math for you. Try dividing the time required for one adventurer to do a faction quest by 6, the number in a group. That will give you the actual time required for adventurers to do the quest. A group is far faster and more efficient than a solo adventurer. Unfortunately, crafters can't group up on the writs.

Silken@Butcherblock wrote:

I wish I had added that to my post This is such a basic part of adventuring that I forgot to mention it

Qandor wrote:

So this comment here is NOT saying a low level adventure/high level crafter should receive recipes that are not the same as a high level adventurer/high level crafter?
There is no valid arguement here, no matter which way you slice it. It is JUST as easy to obtain faction as a Pure Crafter as it is to do the Adventure Quest lines. Also to say, a high level adventure did nothing to earn them is completely off. That adventure did still go and do the quest lines and EARNED his faction.
Sorry, both types of players...Adventure Crafter and Pure Crafter put in the same amount of work to get this faction, and I've already proven it is VERY easy for a Pure Crafter to gain faction very quickly! Also, the solo adventurer doing these quests and a pure crafter doing the writs earn roughly the same amount of coin, same amount of experience, same amount of challenge...
The factioning is NOT unfair, it's just someone complaining that a Pure Crafter should be treated differently because of the grind they do. Like I've said several times already....it was by the players CHOICE to be a low level adventurer/high level crafter, and because of that CHOICE...they risk having to do a little extra than someone else who CHOSE to do it a different way.
Having a 'specialty' faction JUST for crafters in new zones in future expansions is asnine and ridiculous. You already have that with your City Faction. A pure crafter as the OP suggests should not receive special benefits because it was only by CHOICE the player decided to be a 'pure crafter'.
Now....if the arguement was Adventure Quests gave too much faction, I may be in agreement with that, but not having a 'specialty' faction, or seperate recipes given for a player that wants to be just a pure crafter, because the way EQ2 has been set up, any one can get/obtain anything in game that they want and are only held back by how they decide to play, so the only one keeping them from certain items is themselves...

The question isn't: is the way crafters get Kunark faction unfair?

The question is: why do so many adventurer/crafters ignore the crafting quests?
(and why are pure crafters coveting them)

Answer: Because the adventuring quests are fun and rewarding.

Wouldn't it be better if the quests to gain faction were FUN and REWARDING no matter what type of playstyle you employ?

Vered wrote:

That is speculation at best. It's a matter of perspective and in that case the perspective vary's from person to person, player to player, play style to play style.
Crafters should be pleased that they can ACTUALLY do things in this expansion, and is not just the simple grind to 80 inside some instance.

Adventurers should be pleased that they get great equipment and lots of coin they can use from questing in Kunark. They shouldn't expect to get crafting recipes as a reward for their adventuring career.

I guess whats really happend, is that this optional content has turned into must have content. And especially for the people with multiple crafters.
Maybe the change of 2 different factions, crafting/adventure should be put in place? **shrug**
It all really boils down to time spent and what rewards you reap from it .... The person that chose to make multiple crafters , does have significant benifits beyond those who do not. But If you instead put that time into 1 char , why shouldnt there be some benifit over the people that spread it out on multiple chars. Im not saying the rok faction is the awnser though.
I myself think there should be more interdependent content between crafting & adventureing (optional Content that requires both to advance)... But then the Hybrid char would still have benefits over the pure crafter/adventure ones.

Arrex@Kithicor wrote:

The adventure crafter shouldn't expect to get crafting recipes as a reward? Why? Because they do both? Again, thats asnine and ridiculous. It was the choice of the player to be a 'pure crafter', not a forced mechanic of the game. Which means adventure crafters shouldn't be penalized for their choice either...

Like I said, if you want to argue the Faction rewards from Adventure quest rewards too much in faction, I may agree...
Or
That the initial quest for crafters to get Faction gives just enough to NOT be KoS. I would be in agreement that starting crafters out at -49k (Dubious or Apprehensive...don't remember which one is just above Scowls) is too low, and that an adjustment be made to where the faction gets placed at -9 k (Indifferent)

Rashaak wrote:

You just cannot seem to wrap your head around the discussion at hand or you are so protective of your current advantage that you refuse to do so.
Why is it "assinine" in your words to have a crafting faction for expansions? Explain that one to me. Why just because you are an 80 adventurer and keep your 80 crafter current, are you entitled to gaining special crafting recipes while someone who is an 80 crafter and say a level 20 adventurer has to hump writs for them? Why doesn't your crafter have to do any crafting at all to get the faction recipes? What is so magical about having an 80 crafter/80 adaventurer on one toon as opposed to having them split between two toons?
Two accounts in comparison.
Account A, has a toon who is an 80 crafter/80 adventurer. He does the adventure quests and gets everything.
Account B has two toons on it, one is an 80 crafter, the other is an 80 adventurer. He has to do the adventure quests to get his adventure rewards and then has to do his crafting writs to get his crafting rewards (recipes).
Now before you go through this entitlement BS line again, I'm not asking that Account B be given recipes for doing nothing crafting wise. The entitlement already exists for YOU, the 80crafter/80 adventurer. Somehow you are entitled to crafting rewards for killing chickens.
I have two 80 crafters/80 adventurers. I received my crafting recipes for free on those toons. I shouldn't have. It pains me to see folks humping writs to get the rewards I received for doing absolutely no crafting at all. If this is the way it is going to be from here on out, anyone who has a high level crafter, low level adventurer might just as well delete those toons now. Those toons are no longer viable in this game. They are second class citizens in the Norath of EQ2 since adventurer/crafters have a god given right to never have to craft again for crafting rewards. They are bestowed on them
like mana from heaven.
I was content with Domino stating that in the future this will be taken into consideration. However, after reading some of the replies in this thread, especially yours, I'm no longer content. In fact, this is such an inequitable situation that something should be done to rectify this situation right now before a single other recipe is added to Kunark.

Rashaak wrote:

Qandor wrote:

I'll say it again, if you want to argue that the quest designed to allow a low level adventurer/high level crafter be adjusted to provide a better base faction, rather than at -49k, I'll agree with that. However, to say that your Pure Crafter deserves special treatment because they had to 'hump' writs I will not agree with it at all...

It has been pointed out in the past that crafting content isn't always going to designed around the ease of accessibility for the T1 adventurer. Smart children are still children. Your character may have to grow up a bit if you want everything at your finger tips and equal. Either do it or don't.

Rashaak wrote:

Talzar wrote:

LOL, I've said enough in this thread, but I can't help countering this. No one is asking for ease of a T1 adventurer. I think the argument is that you should not have to be a T8 adventurer to do T8 crafting.

Arrex@Kithicor wrote:

There isn't a problem....because...they are still a crafter, and as a crafter received the perks of being a crafter. No special treatment is being given, both types still have to gain the faction. Just one type does it in a different manner than the other. Does that make the one better than the other? Does the semi-longer time spent gaining the faction more diserving because they spent more time? I would have to say no...
If the pure crafter wants his special recipes that only they can get, then see the City Tradeskill Faction merchant....

Qandor wrote:

Your hyperbole and ignorance have reached new limits if you think a crafter is not viable simply because they are lacking the new faction recipes.