Why I think RoK factioning is basically unfair to pure crafters.

Ohiv wrote:

Sheer volume isn't the problem I have with things. I've done two of the factions on 3 crafters now and it IS a grind, but it's a grind I'm happy to do. I'm glad the opportunity is there in this expansion where it hasn't been before.

My whole issue is the perks are one-sided. My crafter side can benefit from adventuring, but the opposite isn't true. My adventuring side doesn't get a perk from my being a high level crafter. That's the problem I have with it.

For the record, I refuse to use my adventuring side on my main to pave the way to my crafting rewards. I've held back from doing any adventure quests in Kunark except Teren's Grasp and others related to Kylong Plains. One of the 3 crafters who's done 2 factions and will do the third is my 72 ranger/80 weaponsmith. So I'm not calling for a nerf of something I've had the advantage of. I'm the type of person who tries to practice what a preach, to use the cliche.

I just wanted to zap (I can't believe the other word is filtered....) that argument in the bud before it popped up.

Nolus@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Correct assumption. I "bought" the services of some level 80 folks to clear the path so I could pick up the quest. The faction quest itself was kind of a hassle with the 70+ mobs but oh well. Then I went to Bathezid Watch just to be killed by a group of 3 80s. Cheers!

Gwyneth@Najena wrote:

Incorrect your adventure benifits by being a crafter too. Not only from a monetary point of view but also from services that you provide yourself. For example I am a provisioner I make my own food, which means i always have the best food i can make. The same is true for those that choose different tradeskills so you can as you say zap that arguement in the bud before it poped up.
Like i said I AM GLAD there is an alternate path for folks to gain faction, but like i also said the sheer volumn of writs required to get said faction is borked. Let say for example it only took 1 hour to get all 3 factions via writs, this thread wouldn't exist, any arguement about how imbalanced would be completly moot cause in one hour the issue would be solved and there would be no point. Of course with that same example then every adventure would be complaining cause it takes alot longer then 1 hour to gain enough levels and factions at which point I am sure someone would say just lump it and grind writs for an hour and be done with it. What i am getting at is lets focus more on the root of the issue, the time requirements for said faction.

Ohiv wrote:

Other crafters benefit from being high level adventurers as well. They can harvest without aggro or some can use their high level adventurer to farm cash to pay for fuel costs, recipe books and harvesting raws on the broker. And high level adventurers can gain some benefit from being crafters by items provided or ease in things like quests that require crafting.

I'm talking solely in terms of Kunark faction. Someone with a high level crafter/high level adventurer can use their high level adventurer status to gain rewards without crafting coming into the equation at all. Someone with a high level adventurer/high level crafter cannot use their high level crafter status to gain adventurer rewards without adventuring coming into the equation.

This board's patrons have been asking for a crafting path to gaining faction for so long that I don't care how long it takes. 250 was grueling and I was one of the ones who asked if it was possible for a slight adjustment, but if they'd said no, I would have continued plodding along as I already was because at least the possibility was there. For my part, the discrepancy between how long it takes for adventurer versus crafter and vice versa is a non-issue. Where I find the problem is that the door doesn't swing both ways, and it should, regardless of how long it takes on either side.

Gwyneth@Najena wrote:

The "issue" your worried about is the same "issue" that has been in the game for a long time. For previous factions it was impossible to gain status with them via crafting for example Maj'dual. The only faction that was even remotely close to what you are wanting would be city factions and there is no adventuring items to be had there. So what you are asking for is really something NEW not something that has been that way forever and a day. NEW features are nice and all, but like i said earlier IF it only took 1 hour to gain all 3 factions this post wouldn't exist. THe only posts you'd see is from adventures complaining it takes longer then 1 hour to gain 10 levels and X faction to which a pure crafter would say lump it. (not saying you would but i know someone would).
SOOO now we have more then one way to gain crafting rewards. TO ME personally I think this is an excelent move it allows more then one way to get something done. Now like i've said over and over I personally think that the amount of time required to get said factions is wrong, and that it should be readdressed. The specific point about being able to craft to get adventuring rewards is frankly a small trivial issue, but that is me. I personally don't have an issue if they allowed it since frankly it has level restrictions on it anways so it's really no big deal. I think the real issue is like i said there is too much time to even get said rewards.

Salisha@Nagafen wrote:

Yep same thing happened to me, managed to get into terens, only to get my *** handed to me by an x2 raid of Q's! How leet they all must feel.
I'm 46 Brig, 80 Alchy.

Ohiv wrote:

And there was a lot of complaining about Maj'Dul and how low level crafters had no path to progression there. Just because something has been that way in the game doesn't mean that change isn't necessary.

And it's not a trivial issue to me. There is more than one way to get crafting rewards. There is not more than one way to get adventuring rewards. This needs to change if a single faction implementation is to be successful. Level also needs to stop being brought up because for someone who has a high level in both play styles, there *isn't* a level restriction. They can free and clearly use whatever rewards they earn by gaining faction.

Tanshyu wrote:

Yet all the PvP advocates tell us ganking is rare lol.

What is the point in killing a level 46 when there's several level 80s doing it? How can you possibly take any pride in that? Its like killing kittens.

Gwyneth@Najena wrote:

Ok so they improved the path for a crafter, you should be happy. There is now more then one way to get that faction.
The issue is trivial because if you lift your head up and look around you will find that the issue is truely trivial. You have basically three types of crafters that this would have any effect around. Highlevel adventurer high crafter, Lowlevel adventurer high crafter, and almost ready to hit RoK, high crafter. You fall into the 3rd bucket give or take a bit. The other 2 buckets comprise more the 80% of the population so that being said it is more of a corner case, or a trivial thing. NOW even thou I said that, I still have no problem with allowing a crafter to get max faction, it just is a "new" feature, that is a trivial/cornercase issue. Simply put for those that would need this, are close to hitting the zones anyways and will get much better rewards from quests then what these merchants sell.

I'm 72, my friend. I'm already in RoK. And whether I would personally use the items or not is moot. There are multiple ways to gain the crafting rewards. In interests of equality, there should be choice in how you gain the adventuring rewards. That's the bottom line of what makes me so against a single faction. If that was rectified, then I would have no problems with having one faction that contained rewards for both sides to work up to.

Gwyneth@Najena wrote:

Like i said you fit into the 3rd category, Not saying that they shouldn't allow a crafter to get max faction, BUT you are asking for a NEW feature that would only benifit a small portion of the populous. AKA it's a trivial/corner case matter, you are very adamite about your point and it is good to have conviction, but realize that it is a small section of the populous that this would benifit and as such low priority on fixing. I would say be thankful that there is at least an alternate way to gain faction for crafting, but apparently you are not happy with that.

Ohiv wrote:

There are not three types of crafters; there are only two. Those who believe crafting should be a primary activity, and those who believe it should be a secondary skill.
If you believe that all crafters should have access to the most advanced crafting content for the relatively trivial act of leveling as a crafter, you belong to the secondary skill camp. And probably find the current Kunark arraingement of rewarding adventuring activity with crafting rewards acceptable.
If you instead believe that crafting should require a character commit time and effort to attaining the greatest of rewards available to a crafter, then you would belong to the primary activity camp. So long as the entire advanced recipe content of an expansion is available to a character for the simple act of having leveled as an adventurer, crafting can never be a primary activity.

FoxRiverRanger wrote:

That is pure simplistic labeling. Black and White, two shades, no middle ground eh?
I leveled 80 in craft and adventure on consecutive days. Which is my so called "primary"?
There are some of us who believe that a character is the sum of its parts, that "Playing the Whole Game" is the primary goal, and that any gimped, one dimensional character is, in light of the whole game, very "secondary".
A good percentage of the "pure" crafters out there were created as seconday characters to support one main adventure toon. God forbid anyone have to interact, buy station pass and make a full stable of crafters instead. A good percentage of "pure" crafters in game were left low level simply to exploit power management issues.
Tell me, what good to the crafting community AS A WHOLE, is the level 9 "still in newb island rags" Level 80 crafter who has NOT supported the crafting community AT ALL through multi level crafted goods purchases? Personally I feel that the Level 80 Adventure/Crafter has done far more for the health of the economy by both SUPPLYING and PURCHASING multi levels of crafted goods throughout the game.
And regarding the above statement I made, spare me the two separate characters equals one whole one... That is absolute crap. If you buy that line of BS, a person who has an 80 crafter on test and an 80 adventurer player on a live server could claim to be "equal" to a single fully developed character in a single economy, and that would be laughable.
Originally this game had content that required both spheres to be developed, not much, but some HQs at least. And, why not? Why shouldn't there be content and advantages available to a whole character?
And regards Kunark, I'm sick of the repeated drivel of "crafter rewards" and "adventure rewards". The only REWARD for factioning is, and always has been, ACCESS TO VENDORS and AMENITIES + NON KOS STATUS, and for the first freeking time in game, Crafters got a crafting path to GENERAL FACTION rewards. Instead of being happy about that simple fact, instead it's finger pointing, labeling, OMG UNFAIR. SHEESH.
LOL look at what we have come to. Adventure types now do phony crafting content, and it is still being added as recently as some of the epic weapons quests. Crafters now can do ersatz adventuring quests in heroic adventure zones. Everyone is now entitled to sample all content WITHOUT the bother of diluting the precious purity of thier single dimension half-finished character. It is pathetic.
Every MMO I have ever played has devolved due to player entitlement, and this one is absolutely no different.

FoxRiverRanger wrote:

GG jumping into a conversation that wasn't about what your posting about. ANyways for your specific issue, you are apparently NOT happy that there is more then one way to gain faction. That is fine, we will never agree on that issue. I personally believe that the benifits to having a highlevel crafter and adventure should be very powerful because I as an indiviudal character have leveled not once not twice but three times. (80 adventure, 80 provisioner, 400 tinkerer). MY character as a whole benifits so why wouldn't all other aspects also benifit because i made this concious decision.
The part i still find very humerous to your whole logic is that it still requires adventures to get you your precious advance books.. OOo you forgot there is more to this game then a pure crafter. Basically you (not you personally but you subjectivly refering to more then just one person) made the decision for whatever reason to NOT level your character. NOW you want everyone else to have to druge through everything because of this decision you made. I disagree and is why i believe that the current kunark faction is good. Granted like posted before I have no problems really with them opening up crafters gaining full faction but that is a different issue then what you have an issue with.
So basically we will never agree, but all i can say is stop trying to make the game harder for everyone else. Nerfing never did solve anything. YES doing what you want done is nerfing.

Should change the name of this topic to "Whoever gets the last post wins." The circles you people keep going around get smaller and smaller

Pheep@Unrest wrote:

Well I am glad to know I am not alone. A solution for players that have spent months trying to better themselves should be found as you suggest. This is like wasting months of the game to find a dead end.

Actually Ohiv, there's only a dependence on adventurers for advanced books up to Tier 8. The Kunark factions provide them at 10k faction, 70 - 74 on the Bathezid/Riliss vendor IIRC and 75+ on the Danak vendor. Personally, I hope that's a trend that continues.

And you make my point for me with your statement about being able to utilize the full character. You could utilize your adventuring side to benefit your crafting side right now. But your crafting side is capped in utilization and you could not use your crafting side to benefit your adventuring side in terms of faction. That's not utilizing the full character that you've developed. That's only a benefit to half.

bobobobobo wrote:

Aye...others and myself have given suggestions of types of quests and such...they just seem to be falling on deaf ears and blind eyes.

The other thing is that it's a pain for a single crafter, but if you're one who has multiples...you're severely screwed in time and coin.

I'm to the point that I wish the RoK recipes had been better planned and better implemented. That the "crafters = writs only" think would give way to "crafters = other type of quests with writs (if they must be in there)" think.

But if wishes were clockworks I'd have my own klank army.