Upcoming PvP server - Info & Issues

Why?

If you're interested in PVP, you'll play.
If not, then you won't.

If you're interested in PvP, you probably want a server that still has players after a month.

I think I'm beginning to see the reason we don't have successful PvP servers.

Is more EXP for discoveries an issue when mob exp is reduced? Personally I think keeping discovery EXP the same while also reducing mob exp would be even better, but I could see how some people would be frustrated at the slower leveling pace. Regardless, if people wanna zoom to max level in a week and skip most of the content then who am I to judge.

Imagine thinking PVE players who have no interest in PVP would still be playing on a PVP server after a month.

Which is a funny thing to say when you consider Nagafen was the most popular server or tied for the most popular server while it was around.

I'm sure the downfall of the original Nagafen was because we didn't try to cater to PVE players and had nothing to do with any number of other things that destroyed the population over the years.

edit: Your initial post even says:

Right before pushing for arenas.

So why would we cater to those players who don't have much interest in PVP?

On another note, I think when population issues are mentioned it's out of an assumption that people have been burned by SOE/DBG/DPG one too many times and aren't very keen to give things another shot. See: Season 2 of Nagafen.

Deathtoll was very popular, and season 1 of Nagafen (Seasonal Edition) was also popular.
As always, it's the lack of meaningful updates after launch, the speed of updates, and the fact that things launch in a broken state that ends up butchering the population.

"Imagine thinking PVE players who have no interest in PVP would still be playing on a PVP server after a month." Imagine thinking that this is a problem that can't be fixed. I'm not claiming to know exactly what people want in a PvP server, but I look at this thread and there are multiple posts complaining about how the server population is going to be so low that we need to look at implementing FFA PvP. If we can make a PvP server more digestible to people who have in the past expressed little interest in these types of servers before, then why wouldn't we take that opportunity? Are my suggestions good? Probably not, but I don't see anyone else suggesting anything that would make this server interesting to people that previously had little interest in joining a PvP server.


"Which is a funny thing to say when you consider Nagafen was the most popular server or tied for the most popular server while it was around." This is kind of my point. PvP servers have the potential to hold a sizable population, but for one reason or another they end up dying out. There's a difference between people that don't like PvP and people that don't like the PvP server that they are playing on. If we can entice people to be active on the server with something like Arena PvP, that's more chances for those people to engage in PvE and normal PvP content. Arena PvP also serves as a place to practice PvP combat, which will make them more confident in their ability and be more willing to participate in normal PvP. I feel like its such an easy thing to implement (even if it isn't ranked) that there's no reason not to add it.


"I think when population issues are mentioned it's out of an assumption that people have been burned by SOE/DBG/DPG one too many times and aren't very keen to give things another shot." Lmao. You only have to look at the series of TLE servers to know this isn't true. The players here will burn themselves over and over again until they no longer have any pain receptors. I'll be logging into the PvP server day one just like most people here in this thread, but you have to admit we need to start thinking outside the box if we want this server to survive for any decent amount of time.


Also, I probably misspoke when I said I don't have much interest in normal PvP, whether it be faction or FFA. I'm naturally a competitive person, so I usually care more about demonstrations of skill using an equal playing field. If I'm playing chess and my opponent gets to have an extra bishop, then yeah it's not going to be as fun compared to a normal chess game, but I'm still going to play if it's the only game in the room. Having to face players that end up winning purely because they out gear me is probably not going to be the most fun, but if its the only PvP server available then I'll try to enjoy it the best I can. With multiple posts arguing over PvP gear, this is obviously a shared sentiment.

This is why I don't think population is the problem at all.

People will come and play, but if the server launches with busted XP again, an even more busted token/leaderboard system (thanks to FFA PVP), trivial content, instakillable contested spawns on 8 hour timers, and then the devs fail to respond to any of those problems (whether in beta or at live launch), then yes, the server will die again.

The PVP population exists and is ready to play, there's no need to try to bring in people who were never interested in PVP before, just the need for the devs to put forth even a tiny amount of effort in responding to issues that come up in beta and live.

The classic "Welcome to the Jungle" sums it up: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq2/index.php?threads/welcome-to-the-jungle-eq2-pvp.588821/

You will die.

Trying to minimize that by giving people an out from PVP so they can harvest in peace or quest in peace is just the antithesis of PVP, in my opinion.

i cant wait i miss pvp so bad...

What's the point of adding arenas to a PvP server? You can just add that to a PvE server and watch, that noone's interested. The feature of original EQ2 PvP servers was in combining PvE with field PvP. IMO the Battlegrounds were in the top list of ruining the original PvP content among the guildhalls, fast mounts, bells. What's the reason of going to a PvP server if you don't want PvP?
We wanted them to return the old rules, instead of that we got Nagafen season 1 and 2, which sucked so hard that they didn't live more than month with screwed up leveling on discos for an hour or two, too fast epic respawns with treasure drops, stupid CC length less than cast time, imbalanced SKs and Brigs and no listening to the community at all. I could continue this list much more longer...

It wasn't only about gear. It was also about overthinking tactics to kill a stronger enemy, finding advantages against him. or just gank him on a mob It was about skill as I remember this.

I can think of multiple reasons. First, it can be used as a testing ground for different class compositions, developing strategies, and practicing without the risks associated with normal PvP. For a server that attracts players that are competitive enough to join a PvP server in the first place, having a resource like Arena PvP can only improve the overall experience. Also, if the devs can successfully implement some type of ranked matchmaking system, it can serve as a way for people to show off their pure PvP skill. Furthermore, if the devs were smart they would utilize Arena as a beta testing ground to test potential changes that could be later added to the server as a whole, as there will almost certainly be some classes and items that need adjusting.

These are just the things I can think of off the top. The real question is what would be the advantage to not including Arena PvP?
As long as it doesn't interfere with the rest of the game, I don't see how you can claim that it "ruins original PvP content". There are multiple examples of Arena type PvP being very successful in other games such as WoW and GW2. As long as they don't add garbage like Champions, I could see Arena PvP being at least somewhat popular, especially if they added a ranking system. People like to see their names at the top of the leader boards. Best case scenario, it's a popular feature that helps keep the server alive. Worst case scenario, nobody uses it. The only reason I can think of to not add it is because it would take up dev time and resources that is needed elsewhere.

PvP Server Name - Tarinax
Beta Launch in April

It's just a different style of PVP.

I think a lot of EQ2 PVPers are looking for open world challenges, having to watch over your shoulder and be ready for the possibility of being jumped by a ganker at any time. Or to be the ganker, and jump some unsuspecting victim. There were a lot of reasons for the downfall of PVP, but when battlegrounds launched, they became to easiest and quickest way to get tokens. You would queue up in the city, get a pop, finish the battleground, and then do it all over again. You never even had to set foot outside the city. If tokens at all served as a way to encourage people to go out and PVP, battlegrounds took that away by offering a better way to obtain gear.

I say this as a fan of WoW Arenas and BGs. I very much enjoy PVPing in WoW. But leveling up? World quests? I'm not worried about being ganked, or constantly looking over my shoulder, or anything of that sort. My experience in WoW has always been that world PVP occurs very infrequently. Like the downfall of EQ2 PVP, there are probably multiple reasons for that, but I'm guessing the main reason is that battlegrounds and arenas provide a source of immediate PVP. You want PVP? Click this button, and you'll be in a PVP encounter in no time at all. Instant gratification.

Y

Yaaaaaassssss!!!!!
ty, DW

Awsome Can't wait

How do we sign up for the beta?

We haven't released that yet. Once Dev is ready to I'll ping this thread will all that info.

The main problem with PVP has always been the gank factor. I doubt they'll address that on this server but I'm going to give it a chance. What they need to address more than anything, IMO, is stuns. The worst thing is zoning into an open area then immediately getting stunned by some brig, who then proceeds to keep you stunned until you're dead. "That was fun!" said no one ever. "Screw this, I'm going back to PVE," said everyone who wanted to enjoy their playing time.

Getting ganked is frustrating but also part of the fun and the adrenaline rush of playing on a pvp server. No one condones a player who constantly griefs another player but dying to a gank or dying in pvp happens to us all and you just get used to it. A brig who knows how to layer their cc properly can lock someone down and kill them, same with an illy or coercer. It's how the class is played.

PvP is not for everyone and for players who are on the fence about it, I'm sure getting killed is all it takes to make you quit. Nothing the devs can do to change that and nothing wrong with pvp not being for you. If you want to learn from deaths though, you'll have a lot more fun with pvp. Once you practice a little bit and learn how to fight classes in pvp you'll realize how much easier it is to deal with them and have some fun. Kiting a brig and staying out of their melee range and also using crafting potions and pumice stones that remove cc and make you immune to cc are huge helps.

My first memory of starting on OG Nagafen was me on a lvl 19 ranger, zoning into the down below, see a lvl 12 rogue who was green to me who would generally be an easy kill. He proceeds to dumpster me and so do many other players much lower level than me. That's when I learned what "twinking" was and learned how to improve my character to compete and eventually learned how to play with and against all classes. I could have easily quit after getting my but kicked over and over but I learned and adapted and ended up having the most fun on any game I've ever had.

Also just like any other mmo, it's a social game. Yes you can solo and maybe make it work for you but generally you're going to have a better time with friends and guildmates, especially in pvp. It saves you from a lot of ganks that would otherwise happen too.

Well thank you for that thoughtful and considered response, Fleshdecay. I feel comfortable that YOU wouldn't gank meh!

Nonetheless they'd be a lot better off taking stuns, stifles, and roots out of the game. That's what sends people running away from PVP and back into the loving arms of PVE. At a bare minimum they should strongly consider making them weaker and less of a buzz-killer for those of us who prefer fair competition over murderous skullduggery.

...when was the last time you pvped in this game?