Dirges are where they should be on parses, right below the actual dps classes. Troubs on the other hand are not, we are below the dps healers and only above the healing healers. It is sad. We need the class to be looked at in general, that includes the myth proc. All of these other people complained about how their class is subpar to others: summoners, illusionists and so on, have went on to get their classes boosted in dps. I should of named this thread, "Shadowknight myth buff, lol", maybe then i could of gotten a dev to actually look at the post.
Yes, the troub's myth buff proc is not very useful, though its not just an issue with troubs. Many classes have myths with procs/other effects that really arent useful or have lost their use. Honestly, changing the troub myth probably isnt the best way to go to balance them out with dirges, nor is nerfing the dirge myth. Though, a update for myths with less than useful procs would be nice
Troubs aren't that ****. If their dps mod is low, they're doing it wrong. As a dirge if I turn off my dps buff I still have 98.5 solo. + a munzok ring proc, moses ring proc, inquisitor buff, or pure viciousness red adorn....you're pretty much capped. Add in some white adorns and you're 100% capped. I expect troubs to be 20-40k behind me. Which, coincidentally, is a little less than how much more dps my auto attack does. Troubs could use a buff, but they're not as **** as some people in this thread make them look. I would say changing their mythical to a max hit on spells proc would give this needed boost.
Banditman wrote: Not so rare. I don't think MT dirges are likely to ever get an inquisitor, but in the OT group? Pretty common. and depending on what tanks you use you can end up with some pretty serious discrepancies in dps potential even amongst dirges. Probably typically proc related though (on the healer front), though there are a ton of dps relevant buffs from healers and certain tanks), so the point about melee dps potential is still a valid one.
Wasuna wrote: Post the entire post not just the melee damage portion. Lets compare the complete DPS picture. I'll see if I can dig up an log file with the classes listed in it.
Buffratx@Antonia Bayle wrote: No, it won't. You cannot balance abilities against auto attack today. Auto attack is a completely uncapped stat now. Multi attack stacks to the moon. Every bit you get pushes that number higher, and with the Dirge buff affecting it, Dirges will continue to out scale Troubadors. Now, if you remove auto attack from the list of things the Dirge buff can affect, then yes, assuming that Troubs get an equivalent buff to their spell damage, you'll be a lot more close to balance. However, I am not sayin that this is what should happen, because frankly I am not really in favor of seeing Dirges get nerfed that way. With DPS mod capped, and EXACTLY THE SAME WEAPONS, Troubs are hitting for significantly less per swing than Dirges on auto attack. That's the problem that needs to be addressed. There are numerous ways to fix this, but SOE needs to PICK ONE AND GET IT DONE.
Banditman wrote: Sure seems like getting Dirges nerfed is what you are suggesting. If you truely don't want Dirges to get nerfed then don't post comments like this. Because it isn't balanced, it's just bringing another class down when they should be bringing the Troubador class up. I have no problems with giving the Troubadors some love. However a large percentage here are suggesting that Dirges get nerfed. This I totally disagree with.
My problem with this thread is both classes bring things to the table the other doesn't. Bard DPs is right about where it should be this expansion and the dirge doesn't need a nerf, the troub needs a buff. People saying that "Well if they nerf dirges so they both suck it would then be OK and fair!" is more of the old cut off my nose to spite my face crap we see here almost every day. Ask for a fix. Don't ask for someone else to get nerfed. Everytime a class gets nerfed we lose players. And you nerfherders wonder why EQ2 isn't such the shining star it once was.
People have noticed a huge disparity between the two bard classes. They have found the two biggest reasons for that: 1. Driges buff their own DPS better than Troubadors do. 2. Dirge mythical buff is MUCH better than the Troubador mythical buff and with the changes to Mutli-Attack it's VERY obvious. As Banditman said: "There are numerous ways to fix this, but SOE needs to PICK ONE AND GET IT DONE." Those that think this means nerf and come here to cry over your dirge then I'm sorry. This is a balance issue, not a nerf or buff issue and we really don't have a say in what gets done. My personal opinion is that any class that brings so many buffs, debuffs and overall positive untility with them should be less than half the DPS of a T1 but that's just me. I'm sick of the parse being everything in this game. Bards should bard and get a pat on the back every time the wizard/warlock/assassin tops the parse.
Wasuna wrote: There are numerous ways, true. However there is definately a right and a wrong way. Giving Troubadors some love = the right way. Any other way is wrong! Stop talking about nerfing Dirges, because that's what it would be! Start talking about what will fix Troubadors. I think you'd know beter than most what happens when people start asking for a class to be balanced down. Sony has shown time and time again that the Nerf bat is not a precision instrument. Guardian's know this better than any class out there.
It's the same argument I used with fighetrs. Balance. I just happen to play the low end of the bard side now just like I do on the fighter side. You just happen to play the top side of the bard argument where as you supported the Guardian side in the fighter arguments. I'm not going to change my tune as it was the exact same one I had for years with fighters. Balance. That being said, my Guardian is my main. I just don't play my Troubador anymore unless there is a specific need for him. I'm just here offering my input and will get bored with this pretty soon and just keep NOT playing a class that SoE doesn't balance necasue I don't feel like it. SoE gets to descide where they think bards are suppose to fall and put them their. The current mythical buff is a HUGE disparity right now and needs to be addressed in some way.
They should make every class do the same dps, and have the same abilities, buffs, gear, aa, or people will whine about their class not performing as well as any other.
Wasuna wrote: In the fight for Guardian balance, I hope I portrayed myself as a supporter of buffing up the class vs. nerfing them. If a person feels that the Troubador mythical buff is lacking, then they should suggest changes to make it more up to par. A few have done so, and I support their efforts. Being a middle of the road Dirge my DPS is nowhere near that of the example parse and nerfing the myth buff will totally wreck my DPS and make it less fun to play my character. This is the reason I changed my main from guardian. At the time my guardian was no-longer fun to play. He'd still be at level 84 if it wasn't for the bonus exp from level 90 characters. When you compare the top most players and make decisions on balance, you screw the average players.
My Troubador is no longer fun to play.... Think that pretty much sums it up and it fits nicely with your comments.
Wasuna wrote: Then lets get them fixed so they are fun to play. [Edit] BTW - how is getting another class "nerfed" going to make your Troubador any more fun to play?
Raahl wrote: I honestly don't care which happens. Personally, it would be in my best interests to see Troubadors get buffed as opposed to Dirges getting nerfed because I have a level capped Dirge. That doesn't mean I can't see the disparity and recognize that there is a problem. This isn't a change that can happen in a vacuum. You cannot look solely at the Dirge and say "They need a nerf", nor can you look solely at the Troubador and say "They need a buff". You have to look at the entire picture and decide where "Bards" need to sit overall and make the adjustment based on that analysis. The only sure thing at this point is that there is a significant DPS disparity between Dirges and Troubadors, and that disparity is tied directly to the Mythical buff given to Dirges. Aside from that, nothing is certain, because the Developers have not had anything to say on the matter, nor given us any indication as to what their overall thinking is, despite their promises to do just that.
Raahl wrote: Raahl, Wasuna is one of those "nerf others so I feel better about myself" people. He proved that in all his nerf crusader rants. It has nothing to do with balance at all.
No, I posted population numbers and asked for balance. If your an unhappy crusader then I'm sorry. Hope you enjoyed it while you had it, and from what I see, crusaders didn't really lose much, just didn't get any offensive itemization. From the little I have seen things look decently balanced but I haven't raided yet in the expansion. This is about bards. There is a clear disparity and even the dirges here know it. I have a solution already. I quit playing my Troubador. I'm just here to lend moral support for the Troubadors.
Wasuna wrote: I'm not unhappy... I was one of the Crusaders preaching that Guards needed a buff. While you were in there preaching Crusaders needed a nerf. I just hate nerfherders. Nerfherders are the people slowly but surely sucking the fun out of this game.
