Thumore D'armer [MASSIVE SPOILER]

Cusashorn wrote:

Alternately, they could have been protecting her from Terris, who also manipulates dreams. She's not a subdiety to her brother, after all.
Morrell impregnating Erollisi could also have been seen as an attack, if her guardians and Tunare were unaware who's essense he had placed within her. That they were taking her to the north shows she was already pregnant at this time. Not hard to imagine they'd be worried about what other plans he might have for the young goddess.

It is kind if interesting that they reference, "Dreamweaver" specifically and what they had to protect her from exactly. It could indeed have been something benign. I hesitate to think they would be referring to Terris honestly as Terris Thule is clearly referred to as the "Dream Scorcher" or "Nightmare".

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if memory serves, Morell Thule is known as the Lord of Dreams rather than as the Dream Weaver. That may be a distinction without a difference, but one never knows.

Lodrelhai wrote:

This raises a good point. Morell Thule doesn't exactly reveil his plans to anyone, and as a Thule people don't really trust him.
I can't agree with Cusa on this point. While Morell isn't an evil diety, you can't claim him to be wholly good. At best you can say he favors the Marr twins. At worse, you can say he opposed his own family out of spite. When the good dieties make a stand and look for support from other dieties, we've never herd of them (or anyone else) approaching Morell Thule.
It would be funny to hear about Morell Thule, Bristlebane, and Luclin plotting to do something. Out of the three, Bristlebane is the most public and even his purposes are hidden. Whatever they plotted, nobody would know until it was done.

Maybe it was a forbidden love between E-Marr and MT?

After reading through this entire thread, I feel pretty confident in thinking that he's Morrell Thule. While I don't think he's going to be a player-worshipped deity any time soon (if ever), I do believe he's going to play a significant part in the revival of Erollisi Marr.
It would be rather appropriate for him to want to bring Erollisi back. He's already shown a keen interest in the Marr twins, considering he effectively arranged the creation of two sentient races just to bring her brother back. Who knows? Maybe he's always had the hots for Erollisi, so he arranged her brother's return just because he loved her.
I may be wrong in thinking this, but it sounds like Morrell's essence was shattered around the same time Erollisi was killed. Perhaps the Thule brothers tried to take him out while Inny was going for her. Perhaps his possible relationship with her was what prompted Inny and the Thule bros to take them out.
So, in my quite possibly conspiracy-deluged thought process, this has already happened...

1. MT loves EM but she either doesn't get it or doesn't want him
2. MM gets whacked, EM grieves for her lost brother
3. MT creates frogloks and impregnates EM with barbies
4. frogloks and barbies meet up and MM is reborn
5. EM realizes MT really does love her, and godly humping ensues
6. The Thules decide MT has finally gone too far, so they hire Inny to take out EM
7. While EM is occupied with getting her bum kicked by Inny, the Thules take out MT
8. SOMETHING prompts the SoE (Sisterhood of Erollisi) to start beating the drum for their dead goddess
9. Despite being dead, some of EM's influence returns to Norrath with discovery of the SoL (Shard of Love)
   
10. MT's dream fragments notice this and start trying to get back in shape

So in the future (equally paranoid strange/wierd thought processes)...

1. MT uses dreams to influence the SoE and start them on reviving EM
2. More quests from the SoE over the next year change the SoL
3. More quests from MT over the next year increases his influence over dreams
4. Quests from MM confuse the whole issue cuz he wants EM back but doesn't trust MT
5. Eventually, the time for EM's revival draws near
6. Inny and the Thules don't want that to happen
7. Big huge battle, Inny and the Thules almost win
8. MT sacrifices his remaining essence to revive EM, dying in the process, on Valentine's Day 2011

MT - Morell Thule
EM - Erollisi Marr
MM - Mithaniel Marr
SoE - Sisterhood of Erollisi
SoL - Shard of Love
Well, probably not, but it would make for an interesting story that way, no?

Minor quibbles.
Erollisi was not Inny's target; Mithaniel was. Erollisi found out about the trap for her brother somehow (I don't recall, do they ever say how?) and went to save her brother by sacraficing herself. The evil-side quest last Erollisi day and the current quest dialogues in SoL both confirm this.
I'm not sure what Thule "brothers" you mean. Cazic isn't a brother to Terris or Morrell, he's their dad. And Terris is female, I believe.
Finally, I'll note that Thumore D'armer says he gave up his place - it wasn't taken from him. While being shattered was probably not his intention, it seems to be either a side-effect of surrendering his place or, at worst, giving it up made him vulnerable to it. So I doubt the plan was to attack Erollisi in order to punish Morrell.

Keep on the discussion please, no sidetracks... I am anxious to see what you guys and girls figure out!

My interpretation of the event is a bit different, but it was fascinating reading the interpretations of others to the event.

My feelings are that the event *is* directly related to what is going on with Erollisi. Like others believe, I don't think that the devs want overly much on their plates. There's so much going on already.

My take;

Erollisi was killed and entombed. It was the player event that led us to "knock some sense" into Mithaniel, at which point he shattered Erollisi's tomb releasing her essence shards which floated away. I believe they were somehow found by the evil forces at work and guarded.
It was then the players again, who were then sent out to recover Erollisi's spirit shards in this event. I originally believed that Thumore was an agent of Erollisi, thinking the play on his name was more like D'amore (love) the same way they used the spelling for the D'morte (death) adventure. After all, Thumore could have just as easily been talking about the Plane of Love, rather than Morrell talking about his own plane, and that it would take the recovery of Erollisi's scattered shards to make it whole again (ie; her revival).
But reading this forum I can go with it being Morell, since after all he did the same thing in a way when Mithaniel was killed. If anything it just asks the question; why is Morrell so protective of the Marr twins?
In any case I personally believe the events have everything to do with Erollisi, but it won't be until the promised enhanced Erollisi Day in a few months that we'll discover the truth on how these two events (SoL and the Dreamer) are connected, and the part that players played.
Just my perspective on what is transpiring...your mileage may vary

I think he's Morell. The reason he 'gave up his place' is probably similar to Wu giving up his demi-plane to Quellious to help support the greater planes when they noticed how much damage they did/were doing when they severed ties with norrath, and that he made his 'dream' as a way to preserve himself, though it didn't entirely go as planned.
I think he'll be an intergral part of the reviving/restoration of Love and/or Erollisi Marr. We know that E.Marr sacrficed herself to spare her brother. we know that Ulloruuk is probably the ones that did her in, adn that Balor has since erupted into turmoil when Mith Marr was overcome with sorrow and guilt at the death of his sister.
he entombed her body, thus 'trapping' her essence in it's mortal coil, so to speak. in SoL, Mithaniel 'frees' her from that prison saying something along the lines of 'may you find rest in this realm, or another' hinting that she could indeed come back to norrath. the light that shines through the catherdal syas to me she won't forsake norrath.
I think much like his help with Mithaniel in Innothule Swamp, he'll help restore Erollisi, and offer support to Mithaniel's dealings. Right now, Mith is outnumbered in this conflict, two to one. he's facing Inny and his daughter. I think Morell is going to balance that playing field, offering his assitance to Mithainel.
Perhaps he'll even 'restore' E.Marr to flesh by taking her image from Mithaniel's 'dreams' to create a new vessel for her essence. There's alot of things the the God of Dreams can bring to the table, and with the only really well known action of his previous being offering aid to a captured Mith Marr, it's seems likely he'd offer aid again for the restoration of E.Marr ot to at least avenge her mortal death alongside Valor against Hate and Betrayal.

There is one more point to the whole event that in some way points to Morell. When you wake up for the last time, the quests in the Heroes Festival become active again (other than his quest). Note that these quests are not marked repeatable. If you think a bit further: Where did these odd portals come from? The ones leading to the expansion zones.
This leads me to believe that the one that fell asleep in North Qeynos/Freeport? wasn't Thumore D'armer, but you (the player). This would also explain why he could "sense" you outside his dream "area" within your dream. Within the dream realm he would definitely have powers to steer where your dream takes you, even without his full powers.
As for him helping/restoring Erollisi in the future, definitely a possibility looking at their history.

Jgok@Permafrost wrote:

Wouldn't it make more sense for Morell to be attracted to Mithanial in this senerio? Ya know, just saying...

SG_01 wrote:

huh. That's a strong possability, the part where we are sleeping. It also explains how he is able to create a portal in the "waking" world when he is trapped in dream world. In effect, we're dreaming the entire time and he's created a dream within the dream to allow us to help him.

Meirril wrote:

That gnome that gives you the initial quest in North Qeynos does state that Thumore is an adventurer who has killed every being and been everywhere in Norrath... This was the first thing that came to mind when I did the quest. It could just be an NPC who represents everything the players have done over the game.

I would have to agree that a lot of things point to Morell Thule in this.
To be honest, with the way the people spoke of him as someone significant and legendary and the way the three women were guarding him, I thought of something totally different.
It reminded me a lot of Arthur. I thought I had missed some reference to a great hero in Norrath's past, as I've been playing only sporadically lately.
It wasn't until the end of the quest that I started thinking of someone more than mortal, and came upon the Morell Thule idea as well.
But my first reaction was King Arthur.

Gwyneth@Najena wrote:

Come to think of it, "Thumore D'armor" is awfully close to "Morte D'Arthur," a fairly well-known literary work, though it doesn't quite anagram. Intriguing.
In Pre-Shattering Norrath, Qeynos had guards named Arathur, a variation on Lancelot (I forget the precise spelling) and one or two others. I think one of Arathur's descendants is still among the Qeynos guards.
Since Thumore indicates that we've not seen the last of him, I anticipate that his next appearance may explain more.
* * * * * *
Mr. D'armor being a representative of "the player" seems unlikely, at least to me.
The quest scales to level, so that even a level 1 may perform it. How could a level 1 (or any level too low for the Palace of the Ancient One) possibly have traveled to all of those places, and left a portion of himself / herself there?
And how could any player voluntarily surrender their ancient home, and then need this specific aid to return to it?
I've not known any player class able to open portals to dream worlds, either.
* * * * * *
I tend to think of Morell Thule as more "neutral" than "good," since we only have documentation of his actions in the creation of the froglok and Northman / Halasian races, and that Tunare considered him a danger to Erollisi. That's not a lot to go on, which leaves it open for many potential interpretations. Without more "canon" lore, all we can do is speculate.
For all we know, Morell Thule may have "helped" Mithaniel Marr simply because he received the "red-headed stepchild" treatment from Cazic and Terris, and he feared being their next target if they were successful in slaying one of the "immortal" race. *shrugs unknowingly*
It will be interesting to see what the next "crumb" is that the Lore-masters at SOE toss our way on this subject. *grins*

My 2 cents is that Thumore D'armer is the remnant of the pre-shattered Norrath. We went out and gathered his shattered memories, finding out they were not his memories... No evidence, just my gut feeling Too lazy to get evidence... And it is unlikely that my theory is true. So continue discussing

He's Morell-Thule. It's the only reasonable conclusion. He was Cazic-Thule's son by means of impregnating Quellious; as it turns out, Morell was nothing like what Cazic wanted him to be; He is the polar opposite of his sister, the Goddess of Nightmares, Terris-Thule. He's the God of Dreams. The Dream Lord. Tricked Mithaniel Marr and Erollisi into birthing the minotaur. It would be apparent that Morell had left shards of himself in those dream worlds; the home he speaks of would be the Plane of Dreams, the nexus to all Norrathian minds when they sleep. (Of course, the Plane of Nightmares, Terris-Thule's domain, is very similar.)

SG_01 wrote:

Actually, I believe they are repeatable again every two hours, regardless of if you do the dream quest or not.

kelvmor wrote:

Holy ... What?! . . . Cazic impregnating Quellious? Tricking the twins into creating the minotaurs?! Mithaniel Marr created the minotaurs on his early days as a god, the rest I've never heard in my life. Where did you saw that at? lol

Morell is a Good deity and iirc, he always opposes cazic and Terris, but I never ever heard/seen/dreamt of him having been the birth from Quellious >_>

The reason I say Morell is good is because the evil version of his same type of "element" would be Terris Thule.
If they make Morell worshipable I could see him as a good deity for illusionists and they could bring Terris out too so the coercers don't whine : p