I am writing you this to express my issues and the growing concerns of the Dirge class. We seem to have been more and more over looked on things. I was a Bard in EQlive for 5 years and have been a Dirge in EQ2 since the day it launched. Dirges I speak with and I are more and more feeling forgotten about or like there is no proper direction with the class. I have always understood that the roll of a bard in a MMO is hard to get right. There seems good direction at times then it seems to just fluff off, like deadline is approaching and someone says is Bards stuff done and it is not. I realize every class has it issues but it seems to be at least at times addressed. The bard is known to always be of the lower population, with the bards it is getting smaller and smaller. That is from a letter I sent to SOE EQ2 dev team. Just a snipet of the letter. But I think it fits here really well. All we ask for is a look at some of our issues. When other classes need to get nerfed, we get hard cuase of the fact we are a jack of all trades. I am not sure it is even noticed till it is posted on here. Then it is only noticed by other bards who hadn't noticed yet themselves. I love playing a bard but have begun another class. This will be the first time in any MMO I am considering doing a full on grind to end game with an alt.
I quite understand. That being said, it's a bit rough to get no attention at all forever -- yours is the first Dev/Mod/Godlike Being post I can recall here, and I've been reading these boards religously for well over a year, though i grant my memory isn't perfect. And then, to have the first one be a slap on our collective wrist, however deserved (I quite admit to being in easier-to-get-forgiveness-than-permission-mode initiating this), well, I could just bite a grape. I know the forums aren't really for feedback, they're mostly for information exchange and peer support whch we do really, really well here though if there are many more threads on AA choices for uber-raiders I'm going to start laying about me with my Master of Banshee and -- I'm getting sidetracked, aren't I? Point being, we do occasionally ask substantive questions of mechanics like the one that prompted the reply to the guardians here. What astonished me about that thread was not the neat new stance-based skill, which looks like it might help the combat system address aggro issues, but the casual way the dev threw it in to answer a question, and the casual way it was accepted by the guardians. I don't read much except dirge and jeweler, I just figured developers never posting was the rule. If that happened on the dirge boards we'd have to get out the defibrillator paddles and cast Elegy of Awakening on everybody. And, we do have idea-threads like this one, which contains the usual suspects like no con slot for self-buff or stances, etc., but also includes a half-dozen astonishingly innovative ideas. I, personally, would feel a bit less Sisyphean if we occasionally got a one-line post that said: "Cool ideas, I'll see that someone sees 'em," even if 98% of 'em you wouldn't touch with a barge pole. It's not enough just to squash evil, you know. Occasionally, you have to encourage virtue. Evil repops. Whysprr Wyrdwynd Edit -- Causal is NOT casual. Sheesh. Message Edited by Whysprr on 11-28-2006 08:59 AM
On thing people need to remember is that mods are not part of the development team. They are people like us who enjoy the game, who just happen to also volunteer thier time to moderate the board, because it became evident in the past that one red name can't keep on top of it all. They can give us sympathetic words, make sure we don't stray from the forum rules and be understanding of our feelings, but they aren't part of the development team. And I really don't see Scarlet's post as a slap on the wrist or anything like that, because as people have been saying all along petition posts have zero tolerance on the boards. I'm just glad she sees us as reasonable folks, who will listen to a voice of authority( on board matters) and change the direction of the thread away from a petition to a discussion. As for the Dirge board always being ignored. Again I got to say the recent negativity about things is making people to forget stuff. It is pretty obvious from almost every major game change to the Dirge that someone is reading our boards. They just don't always implement it the way we'd like them to. If people want I'll drag out some examples later, I'm short for time. I honest don't expect a dev post to this thread of about this issue, and quite frankly I'd rather the issue be addressed and fixed somehow then to have an explaination posted. They are probably rather overwhelmed atm, with coming back from the holidays and the number of issues and bugs piled up on their desks. Soem rather more game breaking(like the taunt issue) than bards run speed. Don't get me wrong I'm still totally down about this, I just don't think taking blanket pot shots at the devs or even at scarlet is fair or even called for. And it makes me sad that the Dirge forum which has always been rather level head seems to be sliding that way. I guess it goes to show how grumpy we get when you take away our toys.
Yeah I hear you Kurai. But you see, even when just a mod comments. They may not be a HAND that can chance things, but they are an EAR to the problems. I guess some people are just hoping that things will get mentioned in passing. Because right now with NO coment by a designer or such we have NO clue that things are being looked at. A little word by those that design the game at this point would go a long LONG way.
Exactly! Warbird1 - it's not too much right? All we are asking really is that they take our comment/bard suggestions seriously and to please try to look into it to make some changes. We know nothing will happen overnight..but come on....two forums have 9+ pages regarding bard issues! And they've been up for a long time! So, of course it makes us think..."they don't care" and at the rate they are progressing - I get the feeling they are trying to do away w/ bards completely. I mean why else would they choose to take our one main class trait away and give it to two different classes...UNLESS their goal is to piss us off and make us leave or roll other classes. I am truly under the impression SOE is trying to slowly phase out the bard classes....and if they aren't trying to do that..then they sure do have a funny way of showing it.
yeah a dev stepping in with a little comunication would be a long way twaards some satisfation as for he apperance of scarlette in this thread im sorta to blame for that guys i was talking to her in pms and asked her if she would pass this thread along to a dev or 2 to see if they would come in and comment but also per my request she didnt lock it just stated it needed to be more than just /sign with i thought was fair
Scarrlette, I've got to say, I appreciate you taking the time to evaluate our problems on your own. It is far more of a response than we have ever received from a developer, and even though you are not directly involved in the designing of the game mechanics, I applaud your effort in analyzing our problems yourself. However, I do have one request: Stick with the dirge. Don't play it for a couple of days, level up to 20-something, and then decide we are full of it. Play it to 70 and analyze what your role is in your groups and try and demonstrate what effects you really do have on those groups. You will then see why it is that bards are becoming more and more upset as update after update changes the mechanics of the game and other classes while completely and totally ignoring bards. We are slowly becoming obsolete, and recent updates have only served to expedite the process. But as many have said, thanks for giving us at least something to hope for. This silence is really starting to grate on everyone's nerves.
Not doing away with bard classes, but more like doing away with classes altogether. I guess there is some solace to know that our spirit will be with each and every other character (sort of like an unwilling organ donor).
it was good miss posted here, its a spark of hope. We should keep constructive posts comin, so if a Dev once will read this there should be more nice ideas but moans..and i know me i ove to moan:smileyvery-happy:
Actually, and not at all to play devil's advocate, but rather to put things back into perspective: the recent mechanics changes have done quite the opposite of make us obsolete. People are *much* less likely to be at caps which makes most of our buffs considerable food for thought. Not the least of which is the boon line, which until now *has* been mostly useless. Our capacity to be unique has always been hampered, because, well, we do a lot of things that other classes sometimes do better (but almost always on a more limited basis than we do). Our parry buff is very useful (even moreso than before due to tweaking of bonus to-hit mechanics), We can get better-than-master I ability with stoneskin just with our own (stacking) trigger buff. We are considerably better off than we were before, for the recent changes. The point of this thread was to address the loss of our role as leaders in runspeed, and the imbalance of cost to get to where we are, since we aren't leaders in any one thing else (except in that we add so much in different ways). I'm not trying to discourage anyone from taking a look at the whole of the dirge issues that exist, mind you. Just trying to keep this thread on track, and provide a little perspective.
The fact that we are becoming obsolete was generally referring to our runspeed buffs which are becoming obsolete. However, to play devil's advocate ... All skill caps have been raised. Our buffs have not been raised in compensation. As such, our buffs now buff for a smaller percentage than they did before this change to skill caps. As such, we are effectively less effective than we were before. I have not seen anything to contradict this, and I cannot on my own provide proof to this claim. However, using logic, this appears to be the case.
accualy the cap change make our buffs MORE effective due tot he scaling near the cap now you do more damage than u did with the same ammount of stats u had pre eof all my skills got like a 50 point damage boost
agreed ive been thinking about making a post like this for a bit now but didnt cause i feared the trolls and flamers but yes we have become more utilty then before but its bad in the sence where as we had less and didnt have the conc slots for what we had now we have more with the same number of conc slots. and are issues that are bugs and not balace issues have been around sence lu 13 for alot of them
Agreed completely. I would almost be okay if a dev showed up and said "We hear what you are saying, but disagree. " "Here's why..." would be even better, but I am beyond hoping for miracles. We are a good class. We haven't pitched a fit, but then there aren't really enough of us to pitch a fit. We basically are asking for a bone and not even getting that. I've got my own company and in that company my job is to explain to our 700 employees and all of our customers when we make a decision or a change why we made that decision or change and, while they may not agree with it, why we had reasons for doing what we did. We are nowhere near as big a deal as SOE, and I really appreciate Scarllete coming into this thread, it occurs to me that there is no reason there shouldn't be a mod and a dev assigned to this forum, assign to be looking directly at our concerns and, if not actually effecting change at least placating us a bit, if even if it with (as I said) "We heard you, even if we don't agree with you." Message Edited by Asharad on 11-28-2006 07:25 PM
While I whole heartly agree that we need an upgrade for Selo's ( I also want the cat mounts but that's because I'm a rat:smileywink: ) at this point I would be happy with a dev comment that just admitted that they know that we are still in the game even if that comment says nothing about any of our issues.
i just posted under spells and combat arts for other classes input on this feel free to check it out just dont spam it with stuff hehe oh and double check my numbers been so long sence ive had wis line(dps group bard atm) that i havent had the run speed AA to rember what the max is pretty sure i put 46%
Nice Sig. Im not sure how long all of you have played but before eq2 came out, one of their selling points/advertisements was the ability to spec your class how you saw fit. If you wanted a Guardian that could put out some dps, you could do that. Well that never really happened because from what I remember, it got too complicated. When the game went live, it was cookie cutter. One thing about the Bard Class is that run speed has always been part of the lore. Running from one town to the next to tell stories through song etc. I think too many classes infringe on others too much in eq2. One thing is for sure though, run speed was for the bards. Should stay like that.
however we as bards are still at risk for being known purely for class that has 2-3 buff that need to be up in a raid and no one cares how you even fill the rest of your conc slots. I want us as bards to actually have the ability to break the mold from the typical raiding troubador/dirge raid buff setup. Even with the recent expansion and combat changes we are still stuck in that mold for X Y Z buffs up at all time. From what ive seen situational buffs are almost non-existant for dirges. Troubadors have it a little better for situational buffs due to our mix of melee and caster buffs..however as stated by many others these buffs are vastly subpar when it comes to other classes who just outright do it better by leaps and bounds. A pure +25 defense buff that costs one conc? A resist only buff? A Stats only buff? Last time i checked almost every other class with a group buff had an element of all these of these combined into one buff for one concentration point. Sure we can *occasionally* buff for more with our single buff however usually the gap is marginal at best. People are calling for runspeed improvements when runspeed is pretty cosmetic. At this point i could care very little for how fast we ran,the real issues of the bard classes are being continually overlooked. As of right now there is a clear lack of development and understanding of what our class needs to survive and be competative with the other classes. A prime example is the EoF troubador bard fable set, talk about utterly CLUELESS development team. One of our primary stats (int) is mysteriously missing from most of the pieces and for troubadors the 3/5 and 5/5 bonuses are an utter joke. A grey level 35 spell (zanders) that has had a bug that gives POSITIVE effects on a mob since live-update-before-time..and has an AA box dedicated to it. Are we to expect another half brained borrowed class ability to make up for runspeed issues? Like jogging posts we can port players to in various zones? Bard only sneakers? At this point I would not be surprised if this thread is completely ignored and Live Update 99 rolls around and we are debating the same topics we have been debating since the infamous LU13. (edit for spelling / grammer) Message Edited by VericSauvari on 11-29-2006 01:26 PM
