Requests from a Master Weaponsmith

I'm against over specializing weapons. First, adding stuff like +aggression, +CA damage, +disruption takes up itemization points. If the weapons don't have that, it means they can have higher stats, hp, power, and hopefully DPS.
Secondly over specializing the weapons can backfire and cut you off from a potential market that is interested in the stats, but not the effects. Loosing stats to appeal to a smaller market isn't all that great. I think a better way to individualize weapons that can be consistant from tier to tier is by varying delay within a certain stat combo. So you'd have a choice between a fast str/int piercing weapon (Drirk) and a slower str/int piercing weapon (short spear).
Third, having a few consistant imbue procs is probably better than having every weapon do something completely different. Right now the proc works for anybody that is willing to enter melee range and turn on their auto attack. Peroid. It doesn't work off of CAs, it doesn't work off spells, it works off auto attack. Most mages and many priests arn't willing to enter that range. Also long spell casting times means loosing swings/chances to proc. If any change was going to be made for this ability, it would be to remove it from auto attack and switch it to detrimental spell and CA use. I'd say benifical spell as well, except that means the healer might proc when pre-warding the group before an encounter. For those of you that never adventure or group, that would be known as bad.
One or two more imbues would be good. Something along the lines of proc'ing a ward would be great for soloing. Maybe some kind of power proc on auto attack would be good too (soloing specific, so not on CA/spell use). Without blowing up the recipe count for weaponsmiths, I'd suggest a second imbue recipe for maybe 1/3rd of the recipes.

Gleaming Strike procs off all physical attacks, this includes CAs. Just FYI.

Archonix wrote:

Hello, I am Cuff, Level 80 Master Weaponsmith of Everfrost. I have played as a Templar / Weaponsmith since day one eq2 was launched. I have seen it all change, form seeing subs go away and weaponsmiths losing the Legendary quality of there weapons to that of Mastercrafted. For a long time now I have had every single mastercrafted weapon I can make from ALL tiers up for sale on the broker. There are a few things I would like to see change.
1) Demand for weapons. Simple but true.
2) Cost of rares be more in line with it being a rare. Currently on Everfrost you can buy the T8 Incarnadine clusters for less (15-18 gold) the the cost of the fuel (20 gold) to make the weapon. I am done explaining to people why I have to charge more to make the weapon then the cost of the rares.
3) The temporary type adornments we have are useless, people just dont get how to sell them and as a result I do not make them.
4) T8 Fabled adornments cost way to much to make them sell on the broker. We need a better balance on manas. The current cost to make t8 fabled adornments on Everfrost is 52p while its only 12p to make t7 and 10p to make t6.
I know this next thought gets lost among all the great posts in this thread but we are in the business of crafting to sell something, If it costs to much (t8 fabled adornments) or to little ( t8 incarnadine clusters) or can not be priced to sell at a profit (temporary adornments) we can not move it and if we cant move it we cant craft another one.

Meirril wrote:

If for DPS duel wield > 2 Handed > 1 handed + shield as it seems to be currently
then for defence it should be duel wield < 2 handed < 1 handed + shield.

That could be done by giving 2 handed weapons +parry.

I have started a new thread for comments specifically on the types and stats of weapons available 70-79. (Thought it might get lost in this thread.)

Please see here!

Comments on other stuff besides types and stats can carry on here.

And yes, Fyreflyte has been lured out to lunch and forced to talk weapons for the entire time. And I do agree probably only a limited number of different effects would be best - the existing damage proc, and then something for mages and healers most likely. This would not overcomplicate things for the customer while still offering a good choice.

hehe

Dont really want to be sat there for 2 hours lookings through endless amounts of effects and procs trying to weigh up which is best by which point the weaponsmith youve asked to make it for you has logged off

DominoDev wrote:

For mages, you could easily keep the same damage proc type, just have the mechanism for the trigger be hostile spell instead of melee/ranged.

Rijacki wrote:

That's a novel idea, I wish I'd thought of that. =P

DominoDev wrote:

Even better idea...
Change the trigger of ALL imbued damage procs to be on ANY successful attack. Procs with this trigger will proc off of auto attack, ranged auto attack, combat arts and spells. This has the double effect of making it so you only need 1 damage proc for all crafted weapons, and also means you do not penalise hybred classes (both bards, crusaders and melee spec'd priests).
From there, make a few 1 and 2 handed crushing weapons, a one handed slashing, and a one and two handed spear with lesser overflow or lesser overloaded heal, and you have all your melee effects sorted.
Then maybe its time to add a useful effect to mage and healer legs and chest...

So I did a strange thing the other day.. And Decided to Inspect anyone level 71 and above to see what out there is being used... Had A good mix of weapons inspected... Though the ones I took down where Legendary or below and levels 70-80 on the weapons...

There was Quite a few KoS Fabled out and around. As well as EoF legendary weapons on some. Namely from Unrest... Also as well there was RoK fabled on quite a few as well.

Alot of people though had thier epic, which realy cut down on the diversity of weapons that I saw ;/ .. And I only found one Toon With crafted weapons.. Was a Ranger, though the rest of him seemed to be crafted as well, typical alt setup..

Weapons I did write down (though guess i should of wrote down the fabled as well)









Its a bit on images but, its a good start to actually see what people are useing and carrying around.. I could of gone to the broker and gotten more.. But then again That doesnt Mean people are useing them.

DominoDev wrote:

Here's a couple ideas you possibly can look at that could be beneficial
Commission Imbuement:
Not to take anything away from adornments in the slightest, however since Imbue Material ended up not being removed from the game when EoF was introduced there should be an equal opportunity to affect Dropped/Quested items the same as Adornments. Due to the fact that Weapons/Armor become adorned once equipped, I do not see any reason why we can not use the commision process to place an imbue on an already Adorned weapon/armor piece. The imbue would react the same as an adornement only affecting items that do not have the Ornate flag on them.
I know this is something that can be done, and can be done to affect multiple crafts, such as Armorer's, Tailor's and Woodworkers as well as Weaponsmiths. Some type of Specialty Recipe book that is quested for that allows the Crafter who can imbue items the ability to imbue an Adorned/Treasured/Legendary/Fabled item with Imbue Material. This puts imbue back on a level playing field with Adornments without taking anything away.

New Imbue Material:
I spoke briefly about this before, but think this is something that could be added without causing an inbalance in combat. Again, with the introduction of adornments the imbue effect was to be removed from the game, however was put back in as it was not a favorite of the community. Since it is in the game still, it could really use a revamp to how it is used, found, and the proc effect. In essence we imbue a weapon with Gleaming Strike through T2-T8. It is always Gleaming Strike, only the damage is increased as the tier progress's up. If this is the case, why do we need tiered material? Shouldn't it just be Imbue Material, with no tier designation? However, if the thought is it needs to be tiered, then re-creating the imbue is in order.
Gleaming Strike is an elemental attack which means the material is elemental, so why not expand on that! (If I'm wrong on it being an elemental attack...don't correct me! lol)
Different regions will produce a different type of elemental imbue material:
Such as while harvesting near a volcano or lava area, you will harvest 'Fiery' Material. Applying this to a weapon will proc a fire attack called Fiery Strike. Damage is the same, but the damage is fire based.
While harvesting near some wetlands or fishing, you harvest a 'Moist' Material. Apply this to a weapon will proc a Minor Regen for 10 sec's up to XX HP's. (I'm basing this off of what the gleaming strike damage is, such 240-321, therefore the regen will proc up to that amount in health).
While harvesting near rocky or desert environments, you harve a 'Hardened' Material. Applying this to a weapon will proc "Earthly Protection" which will ward up to XX amount (again, the amount it wards will be determined by the tier of what was previously [if this were implemented] known as gleaming strike)
I think you get the idea I was going for with the imbue material. I really think this would be a good move for the imbue material and know that it can be done. Woodworkers currently have wands that they can make 5 different types, each with an elemental type of attack on it, so I don't see why this couldn't be applyed to all weapons by a change of how imbue material works.
Anyways...thats a couple of idea's I had at improving Weaponsmiths, however it also does invole other crafts as well.

I'm going to take a chance here and post on page 9 (might land on 10) in the hopes that someone will read it.

Background: I have (4) 80th level crafters (JC, Alch, AS, WS) as well as a max level tinkerer and transmuter. I'm working up a T5 Carp and Prov. My friends have the other bases covered (except tailor.)

In my experience, the WS is simply not needed in its current form. (Particularly true at higher tiers.) Most people realistically only need a couple of weapons (perhaps as many as 4 and many classes don't care about the "melee" stats on the weapon anyway. (Not counting what is split away to the woodcrafters.) This compares to 9+ slots for JC (in addition to scout skills.) The closest class with the same issue are AS and tailor, but even they aren't doing quite as badly due to the larger number of slots (while they still split them.) Even in the adornment area, the items produced by the transmuter themselves are generally superiour.

As the tiers have gone up, the quality level of quest rewards and other competing sources has improved. AS and Tailor got a reasonable bump in desirability from the addition of the +melee / + spell skills on their equipment which seems to have kept the playing field mostly leveled for them.

The weaponsmith doesn't have this leveling factor and I'm not even sure it should to be honest. In virtually every tier since 5 (inclusive) the weaponsmith has been an essentially vestigial profession. Translated: at one point they may have been useful, but now serve little purpose.

The only way I can see to make this profession "useful" is to give them the ability to make something desirable which is not directly surpassable through other channels. Most of the other professions have these types of things. For instance, poisons, containers, food/drink (although not needed much in T8, totems, Adept 3's, etc... These items are simply not available from other sources in sufficient quantity to eliminate the crafting market. In some cases, alternatives do exist but there will never be enough master 1 drops to kill the adept market (for example.) In addition, in the case of poisons and the adept market, there is no competing legendary level item.

What is neccesary is not to make the weaponsmith produce more desirable weapons. The power level of these vs the drops/quests is already firmly fixed. I don't feel the leveling of that is broken at all. Adventurers should be rewarded for their efforts and good fortunes. I believe what would fix the desirability of the weaponsmith is a completely different way of thinking.

The question that I keep asking myself is "What could a weaponsmith DO that would make them desirable and not destabilize the game balance?" (Or steal market from other crafters... which is just a robbing Peter to pay Paul solution.) The temporary adornments are a hint at one solution. Adornments are too costly to become common usage items though (even when temporary) and require a transmuter which violates the prohibition against interdependancy in the base crafting professions. Those adornments could be modified to do the following:
1.) Not overwrite existing adornments (but to add to them)
2.) Use standard crafting components
3.) Produce multiple results similar to poisons
4.) Durations increased to something similar to poisons (60-120 hits)
5.) Allow the use of a byproduct to make "legendary" versions. (Perhaps like the old "ingots" used to be for arrows.)

I'm not recommending putting any of the effects that are reserved for poisons on them. I'm thinking of stats closer to what the adornments currently give. So for instance, a "sword rebalancing kit" at t8 could add +3 parry or a "bow accuracy kit" could add +10 ranged. I could think of many like temp +crit, weapon speed modifiers (which would be very similar to temp attack speed), etc.

This would give the weaponsmith a improvement which is marginal enough to not be game imbalancing, but desirable enough that people would use them for that "edge."

In short, the thought of making the WS more desirable by shifting stats around on existing items is based on flawed logic. If the item adds up to +50 stats and a dmg rating of 60 no matter how it is sliced it will still not be desirable. Since that part of the equation can't be adjusted... consider what else can.

Emirikol wrote:

I agree with everything you said and even like those 'kits you suggested. Nice idea actually. However...as a Weaponsmith myself, I want to make WEAPONS! Not just temporary enhancements for them. Desirability needs to be in the weapon itself, not just the consumable add on.

I only read a few pages of this... But I do want to just add another voice here.. I will not try and design any new weapons or change any stats.. Gonna let more creative people do that.. I just want to say how disapointed I was when I went out to buy my RoK faction recipies on my weapy.. I was so excited to see what she would get and then it was just a bunch of wet stones bah.. Not every player is in a race to get to lvl 80 and get a epic also their are alot of duel weild players that might not beable to raid (myself included) and get a fabled for the off hand.. I have had several people ask me what lvl 77 weapons I can make them and the answer I have to tell them is .... none =(..

The question that I keep asking myself is "What could a weaponsmith DO that would make them desirable and not destabilize the game balance?" (Or steal market from other crafters... which is just a robbing Peter to pay Paul solution.) The temporary adornments are a hint at one solution. Adornments are too costly to become common usage items though (even when temporary) and require a transmuter which violates the prohibition against interdependancy in the base crafting professions. Those adornments could be modified to do the following:
1.) Not overwrite existing adornments (but to add to them)
2.) Use standard crafting components
3.) Produce multiple results similar to poisons
4.) Durations increased to something similar to poisons (60-120 hits)
5.) Allow the use of a byproduct to make "legendary" versions. (Perhaps like the old "ingots" used to be for arrows.)

I'm not recommending putting any of the effects that are reserved for poisons on them. I'm thinking of stats closer to what the adornments currently give. So for instance, a "sword rebalancing kit" at t8 could add +3 parry or a "bow accuracy kit" could add +10 ranged. I could think of many like temp +crit, weapon speed modifiers (which would be very similar to temp attack speed), etc.

This would give the weaponsmith a improvement which is marginal enough to not be game imbalancing, but desirable enough that people would use them for that "edge."

In short, the thought of making the WS more desirable by shifting stats around on existing items is based on flawed logic. If the item adds up to +50 stats and a dmg rating of 60 no matter how it is sliced it will still not be desirable. Since that part of the equation can't be adjusted... consider what else can.

I agree, Basically what i posted on my orignal thread, have the weaponsmith class more of a support class for weapons instead... an Additive other then adornments. Cause basicaly there is so much going against the weaponsmith at this time... The salves are a nice direction, but they are consumables, People are already hept up on consumables.. between food/drink, Potions of all sorts, Mana Resists, Debuffs, HP .... and Most people dont bother with them running groups. These are mainly over on raids.

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Then why have a Weaponsmith at all then? Seriously...if a weaponsmith is reduced to more of a 'support class for weapons' then there isn't a need for a Weaponsmith Profession at all, cause items like that can be divided amongst armorers, tailors, and transmuters easily enough.
Weaponsmiths are in the game to make Weapons....

Rashaak wrote:

Atleast it would be a usefull support trade, that can function, Rather then Built up on Weapons that no one uses to support itself.. Realy the trade is dead atm. unless some maricle happens, this thing will remain dead. And With Quests, Epics, and such out there for people It begs to say, What is the need ? Seriously ? why? ..........

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Why do you think this discussion is going on? To make weapons made from Weaponsmiths a viable option again. Rather than just giving up on the trade and suggesting it be made into some type of secondary trade...give useful info that can help the weapons and revive the trade. Not change it to something it is not.
I would much rather be a WEAPONsmith than a BAUBLEsmith IMO.

Here is a short list of changes I would like to see
1. Consistency for weapons between tiers.
That is a weapon that gives STR/STA/AGI on tier 3 also gives STR/STA/AGI on tiers 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8. The master crafted Rapier is an extreme example of what is wrong Tier 6 +20 AGI, Tier 7 +23 INT, Tier 8+45 STR/+65 AGI. Asking players to carefully select their weapons on each tier is a pain, people are lazy they like to find what they want and stick to it
2. Remove the restriction on who can use weapons.
A good example of this is the tier 5 ebon pike (a Woodworker made item) It is usable by Guardian and Beserker only. Its bonuses are +30 STR / +30 INT. What a Guardian or Zerker wants with these is beyond me, but I can see why a Paladin or Shadow Knight would use such a weapon. (Or even a Battle Mage)
3.Give players reasons to have more than one melee weapon
This probably means different damage to different mobs. I don't recall that I have sold more than two weapons to the same character, and rarely sell two except to except to characters who dual wield. But, if a Fighter needed a mace to shatter Skeletons, an axe to smash through Crabs carapaces and a rapier to skewer skittering sprites, I would have some hope of selling three times as many weapons. The simple truth is my Armorer sells five times as much as my Weaponsmith because he has 7-8 Slots to sell to, as opposed to my Weaponsmith who has 1-2 slots.