"Rangers are currently the higest DPS in the game. They are not supposed to be." Blackguard .

ok sev.. do ya pay a couple plat a week for your dps?

and korpo... the reason eq2 tends to suck is because they try to make everyone the same... yes someoen should do alot more dmg than someone of a different class... and who said anything about 2x? only thing we outdmg by 2x is a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] priest. I guess they should have compareable dps too? Oh and who else buys there dps? ever seen a rangers dps w/out poisons? nope cause a ranger wont bother gropuin w/out em cause the dps is laughable. so for a few plat a week, yea we should do some sick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] dmg

Rangers can indeed provide 2x the dps of other T1 dps classes. I've seen it done, it's been reported left and right, and in fact 2x is a low end estimate.

Who else buys their dps? Who else can use a common weapon, ad1 combat arts, poison that costs a few gold, arrows that cost a few copper, and still spank every other class on a raid?

Rest assured... if you are getting 1000-1200+ dps on a raid, the ranger has combat arts higher than adept 1 (or is EXTREMELY lucky). If you are raiding, you won't have "a common weapon." If you do, it must be your first or second raid. EVERY raiding ranger I know has at the least a legendary crafted bow, most will have fabled if they have been raiding for any length of time. Poisons cost more than "a few gold" to use. On my server, they cost 10-12g per vial. If I use a damage poison, debuff poison, and a effect poison, mulitply that by 3 (for each different effect that stacks). If I am on a long raid I can expect to use at least 1.5 vials of each effect. So to minimize the cost saying "it's a few gold" is a huge understatement. I won't go far as to say that it is a few plat a raid as some have. However, I do spend several plat a week on poisons. (FWIW I am a T6 alchy too) While I agree that rangers DO need their DPS lowered to be in line with other t1 classes, emasculating them is something completely different. With the changes in poison quality and the amount of procs overall, I do forsee a HUGE pendulum swing back to pre LU#13. I hope that I am sorely mistaken. I will be happy to be wrong about this. All things are pointing in the direction that I am not unfortunately. Hopefully it won't be LU 33 before we are fixed again. Time will tell.

Who else buys their dps? Who else can use a common weapon, ad1 combat arts, poison that costs a few gold, arrows that cost a few copper, and still spank every other class on a raid?

let's see. predators and rogues buy poisons to increase their dps.

Common weapon? our primary weapon is the Ironwood bow. ya I guess it's just as common as any cobalt weapon out there.

poison that costs a few gold. let's see. on my server adeste is about 9g(which is cheap compared to some of the other servers) shissar(poison debuff) is about 6g. those are just the poisons i have on all the time. I go throug about 3-4 vials per big raid.. so that's about 45-60g per raid. raid about 3-4 times a week.. that's btwn 1.2p to 2.4p depending on how much i want to raid. wow. i guess that's why i'm always killing trash mobs for vendor sells on my spare time when I don't raid to pay for my poisons, but then again i'm using poisons to kill those trash mobs so i can kill them quick. wow it's a vicious cycle. I really need to make money a different way. It's too bad i can't get into tradeskilling. I hate tradeskilling.

Arrows that costs a few copper. I only buy those for when i need slash weapons or when my summoned arrows get low. I usually use the summoned stuff because i'm too broke to afford the more expensive legendary arrows. but most of the time i used the summoned arrows that i push the button for at work. yes i log into eq at work just to refill my arrow stash.. do we need to get into how many arrows we use per raid?? let's just say I carry over 5k arrows just in case. I usually end up using btwn 2-3k per raid.

and still spank every class on a raid.. with all the above listed things i have to do to play a ranger. sure. why not? because in the end the only thing we are good at is dps and to keep that dps is a lot of work and a lot of plat. currently rangers aren't good for anything else. we are built to kill and take down the mob. my guild doesn't say. hey. let's pick the ranger over the brig for his debuffs. hell no. you will never hear that. or let's pick the ranger over the bard for his buffs.. that would be frikkin insane. that is the only thing my ranger is built for. dps dps dps.

sadly with the changes on test, it doesn't look great for my ranger, because too many people cried nerf the f'n ranger. nerf nerf nerf. It's sad to see other classes cry that when we spent about 10months (pre lu13) playing a broken class with no purpose in raids. our dps was laughable then. then finally lu13 gave us a purpose. we are dps. I had a role in my guild. I wasn't invited out of pity. I really put a lot of work, time and energy into my ranger. It felt good to be able to contribute on raids. I really hope lu20 doesn't kill my purpose/role on raids. To be born a crippled class, then given wings to fly, then to be stripped of those wings to be crippled again. I simply can't do it. I know as rangers we learn to adapt, but I cannot go back to what it used to be. It's too sad.

You have to remember who you are talking too Jeris. This is a guy who thinks that 450 x 2 = 650. We all know that Rangers can not sustain this kind of DPS for any length of time. This is burst DPS.

Where did I say 450 x 2 = 650? Because a 58 wizard in Roost did 450 dps, and a 58 ranger in Roost did 650 dps does not mean that's the only situation that counts. The ranger could suck, the wizard could suck (from the sound of it, both are true), they could be using different spell levels, whatever. However, I have personally seen rangers parse 1200, 1400, or more on raids. I have seen parses from better rangers than ours that spank those numbers. Doing some quick math, when you have assn/wiz/war in the 800-1000 range and rangers in the 1200-1400+ range that's close enough to 2x for me to not bother doing quick math. For those interested though, that's 1.2x - 1.75x.

Burst DPS over the course of a whole raid mob, yeah. People don't usually yell out parse numbers every two seconds on a raid, they yell out the total dps.

Wow , i just read all this , no wonder SoE dont listen to feedbacks from us players ...

So many in here have no [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing idea what they are talking about and most of those are you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing mages coming in here to post about rangers

Ever see me posting in the mage section ? No because i dont give a crap what you guys get or do , i care about my class , how about you do the same!

"progressively more significant effect it is having as the game evolves"
I bet they run a count query on the classes and if one starts to grow more numerous they look at nerfing that one. This isn't a bug. They did this deliberately in LU13 to boost the number of scouts in the game. And now they are concerned because oh my god, people are playing scouts, just like they wanted!
Stop whining and roll another toon or 3. The only way to protect yourself is to switch classes when they pull this crap. That way, you'll be on the up when it happens.

I had a lvl 60 ranger alt for doing dps and looking at pretty orange numbersonce in a while, guess its time to put him in the closet and make the top dps class for KoS. My money is on a fury i think.

It should be Ranger, Assassins... top dps on single target. Wizards and Warlocks top dps multi targets. End of story

Im really starting to get pissed off from all the people that are complaining about other peoples classes, the mages and other classes that come in here are start [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. We are trying to fix the problem not drop an atom bomb. Aye I may have been a little over powered... fine lower me so im even with tier 1 dps.

All of these people saying "rangers do 1200DPS" Yes on a single target thats a solo .... duh im two shoting it in about 2 sec yeah im going to do a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] load of dps... Now on a heroic it doesnt do that... I usually am at about 400-500. Graphs of our dps spike in the begining then balance out... its because we use 3 strong attacks at the start then go with our smaller ones. Hidden Shot, Triple Arrow, Precise shot... thats the spike right there thats the 1200 dps. Then we start shooting crippling arrow, snaring shot and the other ones... thats when it falls. on a graph its looks like this ^--------- I usually average 400-600 heroic 3 up in a group, full set of cobalt, full vanadium, all adept IIIs 57+, legendary bow, leg poison. LOTS OF MONEY

I hate how people on the pvp beta servers are all like... rangers kill me in 5 sec they need to be nerfed... Yeah if i find ya before you find me your in deep [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Im gonna shoot you up big time. If you find me before i find you... uhhh oh i cant melee = Dead ranger

Rangers are about to be lower then assassins, wizzys and warlocks.... [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is sony thinking yeah we may need a change but dont freaking put us back to pre LU13 atleast make us on par...

I just want to say to all the rangers that say we don't pay for our DPS. have you ever raided with a warlock? on avrage I pay 2 plat a week on repair fees from dying not to mention my bags are full of back up armor instead of arrows so when I die 30 times I still have armor to keep doing my 700 dps. so before you say nobody else pays for DPS think again. Sure everyone dies but not nearly as much as a warlock or wizard.

I'm not really buying that argument. I don't notice wizards and warlocks dying more than others. I died 16 times in the past 2 days of raiding. I rarely ever see a mage go naked first. Last night it was the MA that took the most deaths. The night before, a priest. It varies too much to lay that kind of claim.
Are there people who go on raids without a back-up set of gear? Maybe I'm naive, but I thought this was a given.

I get so tired....
All different classes saying this and that about Ranger classes. In most cases they have no idea what they are talking about. Its not all about how much dps u do in raid fx. Someone has to have highest dpsin raids. And since we have no buffs etc... as it has been explained .. and talking about that we can take hits.. what a joke... *lol*
(I even heard healers talking about how little dps they do.. It makes me wonder why h**L they are healers. )
I have 1 high lvl monk & 1 high lvl warlock. There is no way I can take the same mobs with my Ranger.. OMG I can take out nameds around my lvl with the warlock. Root dots etc.... heroics are np etc..
Try to do that with a Ranger.... I can continue and give different exampels forever.... I just think this diskussion is stupid... and I feel that ppl that dosent now our class shouldnt even say anything.

And im even more looking forward to play Vanguard if this is gonna go on.

[start quote]
Moorgard says:

"The oft-quoted DPS tiers I talked about around LU13 are still the intended order. As BG clarified, rangers have been in a stratosphere of damage all by themselves, and this disparity would only be further amplified with the increased level cap.

These issues needed to be addressed.

...

In reviewing the DPS graphs by class on beta for the past week, then comparing them to the graphs of the days since the proc changes have gone to the beta servers, there has been a change in Ranger damage on Beta. Prior to today, Rangers on the extreme end were capping out at 4000 damage per second.

That is not a typo.

Obviously, that kind of damage is rather insane.

...

... the current graphs for today--meaning after all the proc rate changes--place Rangers right up there in their customary place with the other top tier damage dealers, exactly as they are on Live, but not beating the next closest class by 3x as they were on beta last week.

[end quote]

Is there anything anyone can really say to justify 4000 DPS?

Um you seemed to like to cut out the important part of this. The 4000 DPS was due to a stacking issue with AA's and the proc formula imbalance becoming more pronounced which you convienently seemed to snip out. They have since taken care of both issues in this same post which again you seemed to leave out. I think you believe it was happening Live?

Falcon
60 Ranger
Kithicor

Message Edited by leafnin on 02-19-200608:45 PM

Why can't they just leave the classes alone? I saw how they f*ed up all the classes in EQ1. What's next, meleeing clerics? Oh that's right, they've already done that in EQ1... let's just make every class better than every other class. T_T