"Rangers are currently the higest DPS in the game. They are not supposed to be." Blackguard .

Sokolov: BG made a post recently that said that Rangers are still in T1 as long as poisons are being used. Without poisons, we fall to T2. (others have said they played and it went to T3). This is what Dem is talking about. We have to purchase poisons to GET to T1. It is that we are forced to buy it to get to our tier and BG said that himself.

I play a 60 Ranger and not too expertly (i'm slow OK). I've never seen a Ranger solo a white and higher heroic, ever. Myself I've managed to solo a green named heroic once or twice but the field of battle has to be just right to do it. No aggro mobs, plenty of room to move about, mob has no ranged stun etc etc...

What people are saying is that we have nothing at all except DPS to bring to a group. Its like healers having their heals reduced, Bards losing some of their many buffs, Guardians having the strength of their taunts reduced or mit taken away. Its our class defining role that may have been reduced by as much as 55% (going on some estimates). I'd hate to have a healer with a heal that did 1,000 hp heal get reduced to a 450 point heal.

Personally I think Rangers should be doing slightly higher DPS than Wizards and Warlocks to compensate for their buffing ability. Chain Armour in my experience does make a difference in our survivability but thats something all scouts get so its not exclusive to Rangers.

"my heavy armor and great utility more then make up for the cost of arrows. /sarcasm

We can only wear med armor, arrows are summoned and we have NO utility."
Yes, so chain armor isnt any good at all; just wear cloth.
Arrows being "so costly" was never and has never been an excuse to make a class the "most leet" of them all.
No utility whatsoever; you have equal utility to every other rogue (omg not the 20 second swash mez, omg!).
Oh and I notice you AVOID the fact that you solo better than every other scout class... oops, must have missed that fact. Rangers, can solo better than every other rogue, thus are NOT should NOT, and should NEVER HAVE BEEN tier 1 dps.
Ranger was FOTM for so long, and i am frankly tickled pink at all the crying.

Still here Trollboy? Please, take your obvious class envy and trolling posts elsewhere - along with your seeming lack of knowledge of virtually every other scout class.

Mirdo.

"Still here Trollboy? Please, take your obvious class envy and trolling posts elsewhere - along with your seeming lack of knowledge of virtually every other scout class."
Lets evaluate what rangers have and measure why they were nerfed;
Chain armor- better than even light tanks get!
Soloability the likes of which makes all other scouts jaws drop. Swash/brigs/predators struggle with just blues, until they are in a group.
Utility- virtually the same as the other rogue and predator with VERY minor differences!
The reality is that the rogue/predator classes really arent all that different in terms of utility, so justifying how rangers get to hold the mantle for dps AND soloing at all levels is just completely and unquestionably unfathomable.
SOE did the right thing by balancing the class. But because I know you cant see that through the tears; here is a tissue.
Message Edited by Trollboy on 02-22-200604:43 AM

Again you are wrong on so many counts. Know any Brigands that solo Poet's palace? I do.

Show me how a predator is equal in utility to any other Rogue.

You have had a serious case of class envy and are now just here to troll. Your motives are transparent and your 'arguments' flawed - stick to learning to play your own class before even attempting to assess the impact of game mechanic changes on another.

Oh and I just checked your posting history - you have even been corrected in your own Swashbuckler forums for not knowing how to solo effectively and making erroneous statements about that class - your main.

Anyway, I'm not feeding this particular Troll anymoe - just skipping your ill-informed nonsensical posts.

Mirdo.


Message Edited by Mirdo on 02-22-200612:54 PM

yea whoever was in game since yesterday.. knows we... now.. basically.. suck.. alot.
i play to have fun.. and this isnt fun anymore =/ ironic, this morning i logged ina nd about 6 folks were lfg... 3 rangers a few casters and a healer. I checked about 10 mins later... and guess who was lfg... the 3 rangers =p
cant even solo [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] anymore. Think we got the biggest nerf out of any class ever. I think 50% damage reduction is an understatement, they even took away some of our "utility" if thats what you'd call it!
I cant express my distaste without alot of cuss words..

I believe I made it clear I was speaking about conditions prior to the nerf which contributed to the decision to fix procs, as well as addressed the post-nerf situation. My point still stands.

In any case I do not believe Demlar was discussing post-nerf specifically, but generally and attempting to address both, as I have. But think what you want.
Message Edited by Sokolov on 02-22-200605:23 AM

So your argument has changed from "I don't know what I'm talking about" to.. "The devs don't know what they're talking about" ? Is that correct? Devs said PRE LU13 that all preds should have been tier 1 DPS. Tell us your ingame name and and server...please?

So if this was a bug and people actively talked about how to exploit said bug "IE best weapons for the job etc etc" How come there are not mass bannings taking place for those people exploiting said bug?

No doubt, the beating of this dead horse will lead to not, however even voices in the void can be supplicated by sharing.
I understand the goal by S.O.E. to find game balance. And you'll never please us all, no matter what you alter.
I'm *assuming* the ultimate goal is to make the game as fun as it can be for all the different playing styles. What I have noticed, is that there seems to be a pretty strong lean towards forcing players to group in order to find any real success in the game.
Yes, all of the class combo's can solo, there are plenty of green and blues that you can fight and maybe, just maybe, some day, you gain enough xp off those battles to get that coveted next level. But here's my beef with that....
There is a large host of gamers who love the game but don't have the time it takes to find/create/organize a group every time they play. And some just love the solo play, even in a world full of other live players. But ever time you have a successful class, who can solo and actually have fun doing so, they get the <you-know-what> nerfed out of them. It happened to Wizard and now the Ranger. Oh, it's not all doom and gloom, but the with each nerf, the fun factor drains a bit more, making it so now ALL classes have the joy of wading through peanut butter in an effort to evolve their toon.
Soon, enough joy will be sucked out of the game, and that lovely mediocrity of *balance* will be found that people will just move on to the next game.
My suggestion (cuz I hate rants without real feedback) is that fair focus be given to those who love to solo (or only have that hour here and there) so that this doesn't turn into EQ1 where it's group or don't bother playing.
Set the procs back to the way they were when you're alone and apply the new settings as soon as you group.
Good hunting and good luck,
-Morph

Invariably, people say this:

It's not about DPS, we just want fun.

What does "fun" mean? Oddly enough, typically the fun classes are ones that do DPS (Pre-nerf Rangers and Conjurors). Nerfs (which usually relate to DPS) are always described as "sucking the fun out." Even healers like Templars describe their class as unfun and Furies fun because Furies have more DPS.

So DPS = fun? In which case then balance does equal "unfun" and "mediocrity," as no one will have the "fun class" of better DPS than most classes when balance is acheived. It also follows that even balance struck by increasing DPS for everyone until they are all equal will be unfun.

So what should the devs do if balance is preceived as boring?

Really, I am just trying to understand what I am preceiving to be contradictory/illogical statements.

Ok this is silly. Everyone knows the power contained in Gandalfs nostril hairs alone would beat down Legolas or Aragorn, how about both at the same time. We're talking wizards man. Rangers < Wizards in the whole take things down department. But don't ask a wizard to get you through the woods on time.
Ok, rangers got the nerf, we get it. So what. So we all get nerfed eventually, if we didn't the game would not be what it currently is - a great fricking game! And if they got too nerfed, they will eventually get unnerfed a bit. It is how mmorpgs work (well, the ones that ever HAVE updates).
I for one will make sure every group I make for the next month has at least one or two rangers in it (provided I can find 2). I'm not kidding. Rangers are still cool, they are just not the fotm.

You missed my point Sokolov.
For some fun might equal DPS, but not for others. Fun is translated differently for each player. I've a friend who loves the healer, and that's all. For ME, fun equals being able to have an ejoyable amount of success with a character without the need for grouping every time I get on line. This *was* possible for the Ranger class pre-LU20. They were hardly invincible, but it wasn't the knock-down, drag-out battle like my Mystic goes though just to eak out a few xp points. Followed by time spent healing and medding up. That is NOT my idea of a fun solo game experience.
For me, it's simple.
Rangers pre-LU20 = fun solo class to play.
Rangers post-LU20 = not fun solo class to play.
Interpret fun however you want, this is my interpretation.
I'll either complete have to adjust my tactics or not play that class as much (just like my Wiz, pre & post LU16... er, I think it was 16... you know the mega-combat change).

I don;t really think I missed your point nor was I really disagreeing with you, I just think it's ironic that even tho we both say DPS is not the same as fun, typically people end up describing classes with good DPS as fun.

Even I felt pretty powerful soloing orange heroics as a Ranger before the nerf and earning XP significantly faster doing so than in a group, it WAS fun. Now I can't mostly because I can't do enough DPS between kiting rounds.
Message Edited by Sokolov on 02-22-200610:14 PM
Message Edited by Sokolov on 02-22-200610:17 PM

I appreicate the response. I guess after all it doesn't matter much anyway. I don't feel compelled to play EQ2 much now anyway.

Laters.