Nagafen PvP Beta

Discussion in 'Test Server Forum' started by Caith, Feb 6, 2019.

  1. Frost Phoenix Member

    There always were enough of items to use against enchanter's cc, like symbols/signets with stiffle/stun immune, freedom potions, they even gave you pummice stones. It was always ok about cc. Now they equalized all the stuns in pvp like all the classes have the same casting time on their abilities... But comparing scouts'/tanks' uniterruptable and almost instant casts on run VS mages who have no deffence against that atm because casting time is 2-4 secs and stuns for 0.8 sec are absolutely ridiculous.
  2. Drog New Member

    The FFA isn't working in it's current form. To many players are only targeting their own city state players. The idea of making guilded with the same guild and allied guilds working the same as raid and grp pvp has been brought up. The trade skill xp aspect of this is still to low in my opinion. The original Nagafen pvp server with the factions and exile was a good system. I admit when I see a pc name on track I don't wait to see if its a freep or a q I attack if I can, which is part of the problem we seem to have said kill first then ask questions. I do like the idea of no pvp armor/weapons but making all the quested and dropped armor/weapons the same as the mc armor/weapons doesn't encourage open world pvp and the zergfest has gotten old
    Siren likes this.
  3. Clairvoyiant Member

    Drog I have to disagree. FFA doubles the amount of pvp.
  4. Jeremyah New Member

    So I have been thinking about this a lot, and from what i can see so far, now that a big majority of the population is at level 50 with the bauble. PVP has devolved into the least common denominator of full stacked pre-made groups ganking everyone in sight until your're forced to do the same, then its x2, then its x3, and it turns into a massive cluster f$#^ where any solo, duo, even trio players have no chance to do anything. New players will be turned off by this, leave and never come back, old players who were hoping for something different will do the same. This is the same old crap that killed the old server and every pvp attempt since. The server will be left a ghost town with a couple hardcore guilds and a few stacked premade 6 person groups roaming looking for scraps until they are bored and the server dies.

    The whole point of the beta and this new server is to try something new....Why aren't we actually doing that? Items and class balancing are great and all, but they don't solve the real issues with pvp in an MMO like eq2.

    I am proposing to limit pvp groups to 3 players. This would greatly increase the amount of people to fight and kill, first and foremost, it will also encourage more friendly competition, strategy, tactics, and minimize pointless gankdowns on people who don't have 5 other people on discord to group up with on a nightly basis.

    This would mean, even as a solo or duo, you would have a fighting chance against any group of 3 you came upon. Doesn't that sound fantastic? Having to have a full group of dedicated players is what hurt old MMOs in the early days and is why they all now offer solo, duo, small group content, which has been very good on the PVE side of things. Why would this not apply to PVP?!

    This is especially true on a server with a small population and a population that comes from very diverse timezones. It can be difficult to find a full group of like-minded individuals when most of the population comes from all over the world. Nobody wants to wait around for their full group of friends or just the right amount of tank/heals/dps to log on before they can even attempt to go out and pvp against stacked premade 6 person groups or worse x2s and x3s. Maybe thats fine when pvp is just a small part of a larger picture, but when the server is meant to be built around PVP, it really does not make sense anymore.

    Sure there are some details to work out, with contested and such, but its a starting point and just an idea (One idea would simply be if you engage a contested mob in a raid, then you are pvp flagged for any other raid to fight you) Otherwise, anyone in a group with more than 3 people are not pvp eligible.

    All i know is if we keep doing what we have been doing since the beginning and expect different results, that's pretty insane.

    However, from my experience, the majority of hardcore pvpers on these servers actually prefer not to pvp in full premade groups, and it is more or less the PVErs who only prefer to pvp in full groups, as that is what reflects traditional PVE content the most. So why are we allowing PVE mentality to dictate what happens on a PVP server? I suppose it feels safer for them?, since there are 5 other people they can rely on or perhaps "blame" in a pvp fight. Whereas in a 3 man group, everyone will have to pull their weight, where strategy, tactics, and composition will be that much more important.

    I know those who have relied on stacked 6 person premades their entire eq2 pvping career are not going to like this, but hey, if you truly love pvp, you should consider all options to make it successful, otherwise I see this server not lasting more than a month once it goes live, and those stacked groups will have no one to fight but each other until that gets boring and the server gets shut down.

    Just my thoughts....I would appreciate constructive ideas rather than thoughtless flames on what I realize is a pretty bold idea for change.
    ArcaneCognition, Gillymann and Siren like this.
  5. Siren Well-Known Member

    No, actually, it makes the populations even smaller.

    Qeynos always has less players, and now it has even less targets than it would if factional PvP Freeporters and Exile targets were out on the landscapes coming at us too. Qeynos has the smallest player pool to start with, and now the same 6-man orange squads of Qs are relentlessly ganking the same few green Q targets as they zone at low level bells over and over ad infinitum until they quit, without one single Freep or Exile in sight for 2 weeks straight now! There's no fighting over contesteds, no anything on the landscapes at all! This is lame!

    FFA stinks. Friendly fire also stinks. The only ones who apparently get a free pass from it are the teamed 6-man orange griefers.

    Exiles could FFA, but with consequences, instead of this pathetic "camping your own greens as they zone in and never moving five feet in the game" nonsense. Factional PvP had positive community spirit on each side; we Qs would be outgunned, but we would band together and try and focus fire, divide and conquer, etc. Every tier and zone had action going in it!

    Even going across the landscapes to the other faction's side was more exciting, and held a lot more risks (wandering guards at outposts and on the roads, different levels of players and harvesters that could come charging at you to help their side once you'd attack) than this pathetic, boring bell camping stuff.

    If Q's lower population is the excuse here (and that's all the "same-faction orange griefer teams" are really doing here is using this as their lame excuse for lazy, same-side, 5-feet-away newbie bell camping), then run factional server-wide bonuses (XP bonuses, stat bonuses, etc.) for whatever side is having a harder time.

    With this FFA I don't care about anyone or what they want or need help with, I don't get involved in anything, and as of this weekend I have abandoned this beta entirely-- much like most players did 2 weeks ago now. And don't give me that "oh, they don't want to invest time in characters that will be wiped in weeks" nonsense, because live Nagafen is getting wiped in weeks, too. Things won't be any better nor any different then, and neither will the griefer teams. They're full of it if they say otherwise: They could have been out on the landscapes etc. for the last 2 weeks, too, and they weren't.

    Increase crafting XP and adventuring XP (this server shuts down in 12 weeks!), go back to Factional PvP and Exiles, and then keep balancing. Shut the server down in 12 weeks if you must, Daybreak-- if you can't prevent adventure and quest XP locking from happening-- if that's the only way you can find to prevent too much player power from building up amongst the hardcore grinders, then so be it.

    I appreciate the direction begun with Deathtoll (no guild halls, no leapers/flyers/fast travel, no BGs or PvP gear)-- PvP was heading in the right direction with Deathtoll.

    I also do appreciate all Caith's ongoing work, and the fact that Daybreak is attempting PvP for us once again. But betas are for testing and feedback, and new Nagafen could really use some fixing.
  6. Amalar The combined salt of all of SOE's fallen MMO's

    Why don't they just implement a 30 second or so invulnerability buff (cant be attacked unless you attack) after you use any kind of bell or zone? I know that could be abused in other ways but would that not stop most of the ganking people have been talking about?
  7. Peak Nagafun

    They already have exactly that and have had that mechanic or some variation for a very long time.
  8. Peak Nagafun

    btw, chanters are more op with lower duration CC imo. so whoever thought they were op before lol.

    of course a 0.3 sec stun or 0.7 sec stun is pretty worthless, but yeah, low duration = low immunity timer.

    although that's pretty obvious and I think most people already know that.
    Siren and Frost Phoenix like this.
  9. Satyr Well-Known Member

    In principle yes, in practice that would just destroy end game PVP by making it impossible to contest open world raid bosses. You have an x3 pull Xiggalag, so your raid has to break down in to 6x3 groups to fight them? Sounds awful.
  10. Sergio New Member

    1. All CC immunes (after CC effect) must be at least double duration.
    2. Charm immunity must be much longer than double duration of charm effect. Troub charm is too OP becuse have no immune at all.
    3. SK needs nerf all outgoung damage from -15% to -20%
    4. Wizards and warlocks need damage boost up to 30%
    5. Necromancers Lifetap spell is broken! Because of double heal mechanic!
    6. Spamming 5lvl necromancer root making your target feared 50% of combat time! (exploit)
    Creasote likes this.
  11. Flightrisk Well-Known Member

    I will note here that I have indeed read most or all of the forum threads with pvp in the title.
    unlike most of those I have no opinion on gear stats, if everyone's is the same and its scaled to match the mobs stats, it works for me .
    I don't care about exact numbers for spells combat arts ect.. I play for fun when on live at least and monitoring the numbers via a third party program.. sounds a lot like work or babysitting. I don't do either of those activity's for fun. so
    I'm not going to tell a developer what to do about gear , spells or balancing, on that end of the play I am absolutely sure they know what they are doing and how to do it .
    In my opinion , they are doing a Fantastic job under what have to be very trying circumstances.

    My thoughts here on the part of the play the dev's don't write or program.. Us . the players .
    For this event server the dev's can absolutely count on player behavior to go as low as it goes and this beta should have reaffirmed this without the slightest doubts , they need to assume that each player will indeed act as bad as you let them.

    the only way to control that is to give a structure to channel and challenge the player base , throwing the all the players into a bin setting a timer and watching the melee and outcomes doesn't work for long . those that lose repeatedly leave. whats left in the server isn't enough to pay for the time to run it.
    Give the event server some structure ,
    first by breaking the time frame into periods . start with a warm up period in which players start out without pvp , keep it a shortish time frame but long enough to allow leveling and gearing up and more importantly , player familiarity with each other, possible friendships and grouping.
    make the exp gains reflect the life span of the server event .. so if its a 3 month total run, exp both for adventure and tradeskill should be based on that 3 month lifespan.
    then set up contests or guide type events that reward the behavior you want to see in the player base .. if you want to see it .. reward it . don't appeal to anyone's "better" nature, they don't have one. appeal to their self interest.. everyone has that.
    Make the rewards worth the effort ,and make some of the rewards a choice list that includes some of the things players are paying for , research time pots , prestige homes , mounts , recipe books. Keep the goals and rewards attainable .. I think with some thought and structure the pvp event server can work.. but not as it was presented in this currant beta .
    Siren likes this.
  12. Gankednshanked Active Member

    1. Probably, but as many CC abilities are broken atm (.3 stun, .9 stun, .1 stifle, etc), it's hard to really gauge if that's working properly or not.
    2. How long? Troub charm lasts ~6 seconds and has a 30s+ cooldown.
    3. SK Damage is pretty crazy, but a lot of that comes down to not getting interrupted, having tons of AoE abilities, and resists being nerfed. Honestly, a group of 6 SK's is probably the best group right now. Should tone down their damage for sure.
    4. Wizards just need the hard cap of 30% damage per spell to be gone, or put at like 40-50%. Warlocks are actually providing solid damage atm, as well as pretty crazy mana sustain/degen as a part of a group's comp. They offer a lot more utility than most people think, and they can do 300+ DPS in a fight as well, which is good.
    5. No idea.
    6. No idea.
    Creasote likes this.
  13. Creasote Well-Known Member

    From playing a good amount of hours this weekend, I agree with the above observations. And as someone mentioned the 30% damage cap on spells needs to be adjusted up back to 40% for mages to make them effective. Some of these spells take 5 secs to cast which is an eternity in pvp.
  14. Eragahn Member

    Just a few things that I've thought of during the beta time ...

    *CC (charm and mez) seems to be a bit OP with high duration and low - no immunity
    *Necro life taps seem a bit strong
    *Conjuror seems to be just blowing everyone up with one spell as well
    *Bruiser combat art cool downs seem a bit long. Playing a bruiser, I don't know if monk is the same.
    *SK seems to be a bit over powered with dmg output
    *broken food/drink. currently, regardless how much time you have on your food and drink, it poofs when you zone. This is a detriment to provisioning trade skill and a drain on the economy.

    Things I think are good that others might not like ...

    *FFA pvp
    *Group pvp. Yes, there will be groups ganking solos and smaller groups, but IMO that is just part of strategizing in pvp. The only thing I'd say about that is to dramatically reduce the amount of fame/infamy, status, and xp gained if heroic (grouped) persons get a kill on solos and likewise for epic (raided) persons get kill on heroic or solo. As well the amount of fame/infamy lost when killed by heroic or epic if solo ... like next to nothing.
    *The gear balance. The low end, low stat gear really puts a closer balance to pvp. IMO, this should be how it is. MC gear being close to equal to quest and legendary gear with fabled gear being just slightly better. Eventually, there will be raid gear, and while I think that those who put forth the effort to raid should have a bit more of a bonus, it shouldn't be so dramatic that it puts them into a godly status for the same tier pvp.
    *Zoning removes death sickness. I actually think this is brilliant. The player still has lower mana pool to help prevent / reduce zerging, but is able to reingage in pvp quicker after zoning without getting utterly steam rolled with lowered stats.
    *Only having city zones as non-pvp. There was a lot of dock campers back in the day, that would stay in immunity until they saw a favored condition. Once other expansions release, I think this will be great for pvp overall. I do, however, think that once released, a couple other starting cities should be non-pvp as well (Neriak and Kelethin come to mind).
  15. Leaf New Member

    • CC is not just charm/mez... was it from troub or coercer?
    • How do we quantify "a bit"?
    • I doubt conj are "blowing everyone up with one spell"... but prove me wrong.. was it the entire zone everyone or everyone in that area? what spell was it? what was the damage?
    • OP compared to what?
    • So you didnt bother loading a monk to see?
    • "Seems" is definitely not a basis for testing or forming conclusions.... how about some numbers?
    • The food/drink bug has already been widely reported
    Dude likes this.
  16. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    Mez duration needs to be increased and the immunity adjusted accordingly
    Necro heal is quite large but tbh I think its fine, they' don't have much survivability outside of that. Maybe nerf it a bit if CC duration's are fix.
    Conj scout pet is galestorming for absolute absurd amounts since the mit changes
    SK definitely OP w/ damage output. Better off making an SK then a wizard currently they deal more dmg and have more sustainability.
  17. Dorsan New Member

    I already wrote my feedback on the gear in another thread, all I want to add here is that tradeskill XP should be doubled or even made 3-4 times faster. We will need some people who have tradeskills maxed and the more time it takes them to get there the less they will be able to PvP.
    Siren and Zinrael like this.
  18. Zinrael New Member

    I agree. With character wipes after (12 weeks is it?) tradeskillers need to be able to keep up with adventurers for their wares to be relevant for each cycle. Otherwise what's the point of grinding away if the top tier stuff on the broker is always behind the average adventurers level?
    Siren likes this.
  19. Alarra Well-Known Member

    I thought I would put an extra 2 cents in,
    Howabout eliminating XP and basing it on time gated levelling possible how it could work
    1. Start everyone at level 12
    2. Have dedicated no-group 1v1 zones (maybe 1 or 2)
    3. Give people a bauble in 2 week intervals that will increase their level by 10 (so 12,22,32,42,50)
      (but they choose whether to go up the levels or not)
    4. Give them a basic treasure gear pack with said bauble and they can go out in the world to get better gear.
    5. The aim is to get Titles/fluff with fame and dominate leaderboards
    6. Killing a solo person 2 times in one hour will no longer give fame for that kill for future kills until the next hour has ticked over. Killing groups/raids give more fame and is not tied to the 2 times in one hour kill mechanic.
    7. Killing a solo person 5 times in 1 hour will have a detrimental effect unless you are in a 1 on 1 area
    8. Daily quests give a piece of Fabled gear or Master Spells that are useful to the player (could be a choose what you want box) for X amount of kills
    9. Tradeskills will rely on XP and can be max levelled even at adventure level 12.(XP should be fast for levelling Tradeskills)
    10. If you are in the top 5 of the leaderboard your presence is announced to the zone when you zone in.
    11. The tracking item is available from merchants for non-scouts
    12. All classes can cast and run
    13. Pummice stones become an ability for all classes that is given to the player when they first login
  20. Sixgauge Well-Known Member

    Full group pvp is fun when you have a lot of players on the server. When 68 players are online... not so much. But players would rather be bored looking for solos with rez sickness to steamroll, than actually disband and fight each other. Even on a 2 week beta test people are scared to "lose", and they hug titles. The developers have to implement a ruleset that fosters plentiful and fair PvP.

    I like the idea of limiting pvp groups to 3-4 players. A way it could work is you can form up full groups and raids for PvE if you want to, but you can't engage someone in PvP if you are in a group bigger than 3 players. However other people in groups of 3 or less could engage your group.

    So if you are contesting a raid mob with another guild... either you both stay in raid and take turns pulling, or you have some spare guildies in groups of 3 engage the other raid while they pull, and visa versa for defense.
    Siren likes this.

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