"Grandfathered" characters (more free stuff!) Official Discussion Thread

Demio@The Bazaar wrote:

Just for the record, I don't think I'm the person you want to quote in your post. I agree with you.
I was suggesting as a compromise that they give each of the four unlocked toons a one-time 25 slot unlocker so they'll get back in the game asap. That way they'll start paying SOE money for upgrades asap instead of sitting on the fence. See my posts a few messages up for a more detailed presentation.

Bring a solution SOE, its useless in the moment.
I dont play a character thats it lvl90 has 285 aa points, some of the public quest gear (not weared i must buy tokens to wear it...), some fabled raid gear (ot weared i must buy tokens to wear it...) but he is naked... bring a fix and let us play our characters with they gear and spells that we have before the 06.12.2011!
In other situations i cancel my account, its not playable at this time.

Deeperia@Valor wrote:

Free to play doesn't mean "free to use everything".
Ether get youself some handcrafted armor or pay $15 dollars a month.
also any spells you have over expert that you researched in the past during a gold subscription will still be usable at the research level you left them at.

Rijacki wrote:

This. All day long.

General_Info wrote:

But one question to you
Why i have a toon without race and class restriction but with gear restriction?
I think its free to play and not free to use everything?
The fact is the character is useless without his equipment, the complete skill tree was set to the gear and the gear is adorned with all important adornments and now i cant play my toon he is naked thats what i mean and it has nothing to do with the "free2play" thingy.
When soe plans to make it easyer for the users that cames back to play this game and removes the race/class restriction then its important to use the gear before 06.12.2011 i mean i have payed for and have spend some hours to get this gear, thats all i need to say but my english is not really good sorry about that.
In the future i will pay for every item i equip its not a problem the only thing is, give me my gear back that i have payed before the f2p change on 06.12.2011.

Deeperia@Valor wrote:

firstly before the conversion you couldn't even log in. really is it that much effort for you to get some handcrafted armor and gear or pay for unlockers or subscribe like you have done before?
seriously log in and if you are not in a guild find one and ask an armorer and weaponsmith to make you some armor and weapons then you can work on adorning your equipment.
Really is 50cents/day too much for you to pay to play a game where you already have existing charaters?
It's not like SOE is saying "you can play for free but you cant wear any armor or use any weapons"

Take the effort to get gear you can use, pay $15 for 30 days of play to try the game again or take a hike.

Just a question out of curiosity if anyone is familiar and can answer.
Was there a similar kind of uproar and problems when LotRO went FTP?

Jayda@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Okay so I lease a car from my favorite dealership, and I get a new car every year. So my dealership comes up with a new program for their leases to help gain new customers. In light of the changes, they come by my house and slap a boot on my car, and won't take it off til I pay some new fee or other. In addition, they deactivate my lonestar roadside assistance program, disconnect my radio, and change the lock on my trunk, again, until I pay a one time fee that will restore all these things.
When Sony's logic is applied to other situations of a similar nature, it makes no sense. I mean can you imagine a guy who actually buys cars outright for his wife and three kids, being stuck in the situation I just described? How outraged would he be? Many of us PAID for various expansion packs for access to the content and the gear. We paid our monthly fees loyally and invested a great many hours into acquiring our gear.
I have seen a great many FTP models in action. LotRO for example charges you for access to all the quests available in a given zone, BUT they AT LEAST give you the capability to EARN turbine points (coin of the realm as far as buying ftp crap goes). You know, thinking about that, there might be a lot less complaining if there were a way in game to earn station cash. Anyhow, of all the FTP models I have seen, this one is the absolutely LEAST forgiving and the MOST penny pinching, ever!
Hats off to Sony for grandfathering our old, well played toons. A noble gesture for sure!
But if you defend Sony for keeping broker priveledges, bag and bank slot access, quest journal size, and gear locked up, imagine letting an irresponsible teenager, a party going college student, or a complete and total stranger borrow your car for a month for $15. They'll do less damage to your car, in all likelihood, than Sony has done to your confidence as a long time customer.
I can say that because I have been paying money to Sony since EQ classic launched, with very few gaps, paying for monthly fees AND buying expansion packs as well.

Raknid wrote:

When LotRO went FTP there was no such uproar because their FTP model was quite better. The same can be said for Champions Online. Their FTP model is nowhere near as stingy for existing clients. I have a lifer sub to CO and I really had no complaints about the way they handled new players and existing ones. One of the best FTP models can be found in a game that was FTP from the start, Runes of Magic, which is a decent game. Even WoW has an okay FTP, although I don't really care for not being able to level higher than a certain point.
If Sony was more forgiving toward the players who have been longstanding and staunch supporters of their products and services, even after the security fiasco and having to shut everyone's accounts down for a month or so, they may just find themselves selling to new players who are the friends, relations, and neighbors of those who still admire the world of Norrath.

What he said above. Lotro had a much better model, a way to earn turbine points in game , and for most the model didnt change much at all.
For all the fanboi's saying you get what you get : I wont be coming back after logging in and finding that all the gear I worked so hard for before this fiasco now has to be unlocked and that everytime I get an item above a certain quality I need to unlock it yet again. That isnt a business model thats just stupidity.
1) Your coming back, so get used to it : I refuse to get use to virtually game breaking design flaws in the name of f2p
2) Just pay a sub : I did. For many years. What I earned THEN , I should have NOW. From here forwards - I still believe 1 is correct, but it would be a better model to start.
3) If you dont like it dont play. Ok I wont ! swtor is out when? hey about the same time server populations plummet.

If they had looked farther than some Korean model on how to run a successful f2p they may have done better, but they didnt because they are SOE. And that there is why SOE is losing subs, losing players, and losing respect of many a player in the MMO field.

Raknid wrote:

Perhaps more important, because EQ2 is competing with LOTRO and other games as they are NOW, not in the past, how does EQ2 compare with LOTRO's F2P now?
LOTRO limits access to areas. But if you have bought expansions, as most of the returning EQ2 vets have, then you have access to many of those areas. You can buy access to the other LOTRO areas, or earn them in-game. In LOTRO you can play the main story line all the way to the end if you have the expansions. They also give access to many of the dungeons and raid areas.
Most importantly, you can use ALL gear you earn in the quests.
So EQ2 gives access to all the areas. LOTRO gives access to all the gear. But because your gear is currently limited in EQ2, LOTRO is the winner. EQ2 can go a long way towards fixing that by allowing returning vets to use their gear.
Both games charge for extra bank slots, more toons, etc.
I will say this in favor of EQ2, though: they have one of the most complex and fascinating worlds and lore in MMOs. If they can just fix this gear thing, they should be on the way to a renaissance.

Ilavatar wrote:

Amen!
PS: Bear in mind that LotRO allows you to EARN their equivalent of Station Cash IN GAME. Sony does not do this.

Hey,
I am not here to complain about anything, mearly to ask a question. Has anyone recieved thier race/class pack refunds yet, or heard when they are supposed to be given out? On the 7th I spent 2250sc on packs. (I had yet to decide if I wanted to come back or not. I have since both returned as a subscriber and bought AOD.) I contacted customer service and they said all refunds would be done at the same time across the board and to keep an eye on the community forums. This was yesterday the 11th. The only post I have found so far regarding the refund issue was by Smokejumper who said they were doing it all on the 9th. Thus this question. Answers much appreciated!
Have a good one,
Raven

I'll honestly have to give credit where credit is due. I spent $15.00 to open up access to a few of my toons AFTER it was posted that returnees would be granted access to old toons. I then sent in a /bug report, honestly as a joke, and was happily reimbursed for one of my toons I unlocked. I deleted one of the other toons, so I can understand SOE not reimbursing me for him.
I am very happy with SOE's handling so far. I like the fact that they gave us a free unattunement, which I used to sell the legendary/fable equipment I had and used those funds to regear my two higher level toons. They needed to be regeared anyways as I haven't played in forever and all the gear they were wearing had all the wrong stats for the class. I mainly solo, and my treasured gear is, so far, plenty adequate.
As a broke college student, I'm very happy that I get to play a decent MMO for practically nothing. When I can afford to buy things, I will.

BWLeeEllison wrote:

There you go, I added and highlighted the portion in red you omitted from your analogy. If you leased a car from me and stopped paying for it, yes I would take the car back. In this example if you CHOSE not to pay for the car I might offer you an option of taking another lease car free from me which might have basic amenities and be painted as a rolling marketing advertisement. Such things exist.
At the end of the day, nothing is free and people demanding future returns based on past performance is absurd.

All I want, my whole life, is a Fish Taco and a Pink Lemonade!

http://www.hulu.com/watch/16529/roadents-beef-barn

Faerless

At the end of the day, nothing is free and people demanding future returns based on past performance is absurd.


And this is the reason change doesnt happen in real life as well. Because people like you accept crapola logic like this. If you work hard, looking towards your future , and its all taken away for reasons beyond your control, are YOU still responsible? Can you not be MAD about it? Would you not be upset?

Apathy because 'thats the way it is' is just stupidity by another name. I myself am going to stand up for what I feel is right, not fall back because an ijit makes iditoic declarations of logical fallacy.

Did they initiate the refund yet ? because i did not get my refund.

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

In my first example the hypothetical lessee was still paying, hence the absurdity of them booting his car and locking up other features. I couldn't help but notice you had nothing to say about the second example where the cars are bought and paid for.
You are correct when you say nothing is free. I paid for the expansion packs that gave me access to get the gear I have, and I also put forth the time and effort to get that gear. I earned it. It belongs to me. It is mine. I did not take that gear to a pawn shop, so why should I have to pay to get it back? That gear is part of my character. No high end character is playable without the gear they quested for, raided for, raised money for and purchased. It's like having a Bugatti without the engines in it. Yes you own a million dollars worth of car that you can leave rusting in your front yard like people do out in the country. Throw a bone to the wolves but keep the meat for yourself next time will ya? Oh wait, BTDT. Without the gear, the grandfather clause is a hollow gesture.

BWLeeEllison wrote:

The bought and paid for car analogy doesn't work. You own the car, you pay for the maintenance, the gas it runs with, you pay for all upgrades, etc. etc. No one else does. Hence, it's yours to do with as you please until you decide to get rid of it.
This game isn't something you own. You may purchase the right to use upgrades (expansions) but you don't pay to maintain it, nor for the gas it runs on. That's what your subscription (or unlock purchases) are for.