"Grandfathered" characters (more free stuff!) Official Discussion Thread

Just paid my gold membership yesterday and was still dropped to silver status. Characters stripped (equipment moved to inventory/overflow), bags locked, slots locked, my BM locked (since I have NO race or class packs having always been a gold member). Research on anything above journeyman halted, and I can't help my apprentices because journal shrank.

Makes me wish I'd opted to continue playing SW after the beta instead of buying the $60 micro expansion.

EQBariguy wrote:

I don't understand this mentality. You stopped paying for the game. Therefore you had zero access to anything in EQ2 that you "paid for" previously.
Now, Sony makes it so you can come back... for free. Sure, there are restrictions, but you can come check out the game without paying a dime.
I have asked this question before but no one touched it: Why should you get to come back, and get everything you *had* while being a paid member for free, while the rest of us have to pay? You don't have access to it because you aren't paying for the *rest* of the game. It wasn't "taken away". It's just not available to you as a FREE member. So are you asking that for those who quit paying for the game, but want all they had before, that us paid member should be reimbursed for what you're asking to be "given back" to you for free? Or that we should continue paying while you get the same access to your stuff for free? It makes zero sense both in fairness or as any kind of successful business model.
If Sony caved on that too, and gave you the gear you "earned" while you were a *paying member*, for free, what would that do to the game? Then rest of us who are still paying would want that too! Why should you be rewarded for NOT paying for the use of this game, while the rest of us who have continued to pay just watch the non-payers get handouts?
If Sony allowed that, as soon as anyone got the best gear they could, they'd stop paying. If they continue caving to your demands for free stuff, eventually no one would pay for anything. What would happen then? The game would eventually die and then there'd be no game to play anymore.

Jayda@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Nicely said. Of course, I've been saying the same thing ad nauseum in a scrillion other threads, so good luck.

Streppoch@Guk wrote:

Maybe, the paid members should be requesting the same freebies. For every non-paid player asking for more freebies, a paid member should get the same. Sony can just reimburse us paid members for every handout they're giving the squeaky wheels. That's only fair. Right? Who cares if Sony makes any money. Who needs money to keep a game like this going?

The whole deal about not being able to use your stuff you already paid and played for is like having the dealership come slap a boot on your already bought and paid for car just because they started a new program for new customers.

Actually it's very simple, how many free to play "new" customers have paid for all the expansions up to Sentinel's Fate? Exactly, none at all, they get access to everything up to that, so for returning players who have invested $200-$250 in expansions alone, plus the subs? You would think that alone allows you to keep gear unlocked that you have already had on your person, bank or inventory.
Those who have been paying in this time and aren't expecting to change, you have other reasons to keep status quo, you will continue not to have to unlock fabled gear, masters, all that stuff that us returning silver members will have to pay on the marketplace to unlock. I'd say that's still pretty substantial.
At the end of the day, the very point is, grandfathering = great, but unlocking characters won't get people playing regularly again, it just means you get to look at your characters and think "gee, if I wasn't naked I could check out these new instances on this new expac I just bought" ah well, /logout
It isn't about fairness, or laziness or even about investment. What will players do with toons they have to buy stuff for when they already have adequate gear in their bags? /Play another game. It's that simple. No hard feelings, no regrets. Just better options elsewhere.

I'm fine with not being allowed to use the Legendary+ gear that I collected while I was a paying member. SOE did give us a one time chance to not equip them and restore them. I used that chance to sell them on the market and buy something useable.
My biggest pet peeve is the "all characters made from 12:01 (day of release) to THE POINT OF THIS POSTING" will have their station cash reimbursed. Seriously. What if I was happily playing my 1 available toon for four hours and thought, "man, it's worth spending the $7.50 to open my former main" and went through with the order only to log off and find I missed the cut by, oh, 20 minutes. It's stupid. They should've reimbursed everybody that paid to unlock a toon from the time it went live until the time the servers went down for THAT update. I understand they need to make money, it's HOW they made $15 from me alone that ticks me off.

Hmm sorry SOE i have logged in today and yes i can play all my toons (they are more then 2 years old and sf expansion all in one buyed, payed more then 2 years monthly subscription) but i dont have any gear, i'm naked!
This account is not playable at this time, my completely gear is not usable, when you give us the chance to play our toons that are created before the 06.12.2011 without any race or class restriction then let us play with our gear that we have looted and equiped before the 06.12.2011...
All gear that we loot or need to wear after the 06.12.2011 can be restricted its not a problem its the same thing that you have do with the race/class restriction with the grandfather thingy, its sad that i can play my toon but i cant use it, its useless... account /close
Sorry for my english.

I am a recurring monthly subscriber. Not Gold, Silver, Extended or anything else. I have been a recurring montly for a long time. I have characters on several severals and ALL of them have their armor in their bags (which are overflowing), 2 bags locked...and I was so upset I haven't even seen what else they can't do. How does this fix my problem???
I have patiently gone through the hacking. Through the patches and patches to fix patches. It is Sunday morning where I am. I Pay for today. I paid for last night. I would like my Characters back. I would appreciate being able to play the game I Pay for TODAY.

Please address this issue in a post, others are in the same situation as me. (Read the forum posts). I have submitted a support ticket, as we were all advised to do #111211-000529.
I am trying to be patient, but really....this is ridiculous.
What do we get for staying through this mess?
Sincerely

And yes, Like Deep Eria..........my characters are completely useless atm.

Dear SOE,
I hope you're still following this thread. If you sort through all the back and forth it seems there is only one more MAIN issue that is still repeatedly mentioned in this and the related threads in other sections - activating legendary gear that was already earned.
Regardless of the points pro and con, it is still holding back a lot people who would otherwise be playing the game and thus paying you money.
Could you please just activate the legendary gear for vets and most of us can move on to actually playing the game instead of arguing about this ad nauseum?

I thought of a way you can make all vets happy and get them back in the game asap.
Give the four unlocked toons of every returning a vet a one-time Equipment Unlocker Pack with 25 charges. That will allow them to unlock a complete set of gear and weapons on each toon.
Vets who are still on the fence will be able to enter the game now. Vets who have already paid to unlock their gear can use it on their next set so you don't have to hassle with refunds. The unlocker should unlock the highest possible gear to avoid any complaints.
This will get everyone back in the game and ready to start paying to unlock bags, their next set of gear, etc. You'll probably make your money back in the first week due to increased players - maybe the first weekend.
If you're feeling cheap, you can give them only two unlocker packs per account. That way they'll have to choose which two of their four accounts to activate. But why create aggravation?
Apart from this, I'd say your new F2P program is shaping up pretty well.

Ilavatar wrote:

How would this be fair at all to those who are paying a recurring subscription? What benefit is there for actually paying a monthly subscription if everything is given for free to those who don't?
You want more and more free as a requisite to play and say, " it is still holding back a lot people who would otherwise be playing the game and thus paying you money." How are they paying money if everything is given to them for free?
I've paid for every expansion, double because I have 2 accounts, many of them CE (usually not both accounts CE). I've had an account since day one of launch and that account was converted to Station Access shortly after that was made available and has been SA (now AA) until now. My second account was started a few months after launch and was an SA account for a few years but now is back to being a regular subscription. I don't know if I have spent more or less than you and I frankly don't care if I have. I only post this because of the plethora of posters throwing around their PAST purchases and subscriptions as reasons they should be able to get everything and the cow for free now.
-I- don't think I am entitled to anything beyond what my subscription level gives me. I don't think I am entitled to anything and everything if I stop paying a subscription. If I dropped the monthly on either of my accounts, I fully expect and accept I will be under the restrictions of a Silver account. I fully expected and accepted in the past that I would have zero access to my characters and the game if I dropped my monthly payments.
Characters, gear, etc. is all the property of SOE. You don't own diddly. In essence, a subscription is a rent or lease payment. You have access only so long as it is being paid. SOE added in a new account type which gives you -limited- access for a one time payment, but it is LIMITED access. You aren't, and shouldn't be, getting the same access as someone who is paying for the monthly rent/lease.

I'm really not interested in getting into this debate raging all over the forums. Obviously some players feel very strongly like you. Others feel the other way. I think the points for both sides have been made before.
It's time for SOE to make a decision and move forward. I am suggesting a possible solution.

Ilavatar wrote:

My character is no threat to you, I had to stop playing back in 2009 due to loss of job. I got a new job in Sept 2010. When I came back to see if my guild still here, which they weren't I moved on to another game and built a new group of friends. I miss EQ2. So my subscription payed to allow me to get gear up until 2009. So, What does your subscription do for you? It allowed you to continue to play the game probably top tier gear, top level, best spells in the game.
I just want my current gear available to me, i earned it, I payed during those subscription times. Now going forward I would have to agree that I would need to buy unlocker. I am already ten level behind and god knows what kind of gear I would need to reach level 90.
As I stated I like EQ2, if I only had my gear it possible I could join a new group of friends in this game. Right now "nude" is not going to allow me to meet people. Would you like some ogre on the street walk up and say, "hey let go bar hopping" I got 20 cent!".
I doubt it...

'Grandfathered in'.. ? There is no such thing as 'grandfathered in'.
Today, I installed EQ 2 and all packs up to Shadows of Odessey (last pack I bought and played). I tolerated 2 hours of 'patching and installing' to bring this game "up to date". I logged in and noticed right away that THREE out of my NINE characters are locked! One of them being my oldest character I made back at the end of 2004 or the start of 2005. She was last played in June of this year before I started playing my Vampire toon.
Notice the facts:
1. I started in 2004/2005 with a PAID subscription, 6 character slots, 6 bags, 20 bank slots (16 plus 4 shared) and unlimited currency.
2. I started with all races except Froglok and Freeblood (one I quested for to unlock and one I bought with SC).
3. I bought all expansion packs up to Shadows of Odessey which included all features, all gear, skills and etc. from those expansion packs. (I will explain in detail below.)
4. THEN last spring/summer, I bought THREE character slots with STATION CASH.
But I am sitting in front of my monitor staring at the character selection window. I am seeing 3 out of 9 characters locked despite the fact SOE stated that all characters made PRIOR to December 12th, 2011, would be GRANDFATHERED into the game regardless of what membership package I get. SOE stated that I can play any of my characters despite the membership package I use.
So why am I only able to play 6 out of 9 characters that I created for the past 6 years? Why am I being forced to pay to unlock my characters that were SUPPOSED to be grandfathered into the game no matter if I play for free or not?
Notice the Gear Facts:
1. I quested for hours to obtain my gear to use on my characters.
2. I raided for hours to obtain my gear to use on my characters.
3. I crafted for hours to obtain my gear to use on my characters.
And yet, my 83 SK can't use most of her gear! I have to pay to re-equip all of my Legendary stuff?! I thought to myself,"Wait a minute.. Why do I have to pay to REUSE my gear that I ALREADY obtained?" I am left with mastercrafted gear (equipped), 1 weapon (equipped) and some jewelery (equipped). I feel.. cheated!
I think it's fine if I started playing EQ 2 for free for the first time, knowing well that the restrictions are there for a reason, but I played EQ 2. I paid to play EQ 2. I bought expansion packs so I could obtain that awesome weapon or that neat mount.
I'm talking about hundreds of dollars poured into playing EQ 2 - subscription, expansion packs, station items/races/classes.
And you're offering to grandfather us veterans into EQ 2? This is not Free To Play I was thinking about in terms of playability when it comes to pre-existing characters, pre-existing features (I.E: SIX CHARACTER SLOTS, SIX BAGS), pre-existing items that we already have.
Sure, Free To Play is a good idea, and I do appreciate the effort in creating an opportunity for us veterans to return and play again to see if we still have that same desire to play the game again and maybe resubscribe. BUT how are you going to convince us veterans to return and play after we read about the issues and complaints regarding the "Grandfather" deal? After we paid for our gear, items, houses, races, classes with our subscriptions, our expansion packs and our station cash?
I am.. literally -unfavorable word- off.

The frostfell stuff is legendary...frankly that is not fair to any of the f2p people, but if they have earned it they should be able to wear if if the toon was once a 'gold'/live member.

The restrictions are rather....restrictive to the point of silly for some things.

I was just thinking about this and it looks like it's already been posted. Imo, gear equipped while an active subscription is / was present should not be unequipped. Require gear unlockers to put on new gear, but don't take off what has already been earned.
Look at master spells, why are they not unmastered?

Fantomex@Everfrost wrote:

BF paid for all those expansions and he's still locked into crabapples for gear. Which is annoying.
Here's my question. What about free to play people that buy DoV? ALL the QUEST REWARDS from Velious... ARE LEGENDARY. You cannot equip legendary without paying for unlockers on a free or silver account, but you don't get treasured quest gear. So exactly whats supposed to go on here with this? Honestly.
What about things like LoN mounts, or the Kingdom of Sky cloud mount timeline mount? Fabled. Can't use those. Quested Rilissian soldier's mount rhino. Fabled. Can't use those. And people that come back that did their mythical weapon quest? Can't use that.
I wonder if they do ER if they can't get the ability from it, because "technically" the spell you get as a reward is mythical quality.
Lots of simple, everyday things that you can't do if you're not paying. Nothing bigger as a slap in the face when doing quests to level and being told "here's your reward for a job well done... but you can't use it!! Nyah nyah!"

I also wanted to touch on the subject of character slots. It seems Free To Play completely ignored the character slots that were BOUGHT with SC. Those 3 out of 9 character slots were bought with SC I obtained from a local store. So I can't play those 3 characters if I went Free To Play or even downgraded to Silver.
Plus the petition system is broken. I tried to put in a petition to have those last 3 character slots opened and to get all of my gear enabled (which I quested and raided for in the first place BEFORE Free To Play existed.) I was sent to a page on the site containing some sort of Apache error.
Okay, so I'm out 3 character slots which cost me 3000 SC. I am not willing to pay extra to unlock my characters. I paid for them. Period. I am not willing to pay to have all of my gear unlocked. I paid and quested for them via expansion packs prior to December 2011. At least I have all of the races including the Freeblood racial pack I bought, although I think I had Cloud of Bats (Freeblood-only mount). So I still have that ability to create Freebloods but I'm out about 1000 SC for the mount.
Free To Play + 4000 (give or take) SC = Not Priceless.
I'm going to try again later this week to get a petition in to resolve these issues.