DPS with Stam line... 1h and shield or 2h/DW?

Number crunching works fine. Remain ignorant if you like.

Oh, the forum troll in me just can't resist...

Of course damage ratings are affected by weapon speed. Um, duh? Do you know how that damage rating is achieved? Oh wait, that would require math to show you.

4484 STA? That's not what you said earlier today. The build you stated you currently had (which you don't even have enough points for) required 49 points. Now you're spending an additional 4 in STA. Maybe you should do a little number crunching. 49 + 4 != 50. Don't even excuse yourself with an explanation. You claimed to have a 1H DPS build and stated that it doesn't hold up to a 2H. Both of which are flat out lies. I hope more people can see through your FUD.

I can look up earlier posts in this thread to see what you were using and how it compared to Syrius's build. I'm fairly certain I posted some numbers to support the results. Oh wait... that must be inaccurate number crunching as well.

Damage range is important... for crits. A larger range can also back fire. It can have larger spikes, or lower spikes. This isn't even about 1H vs 2H. It holds true for any weapon. You're example also showed a weapon that has a higher max damage range actually has the potential to hit harder. What were you expecting?

It goes off a lot, does it? That's not 4% avoidance, BTW. That's 4% block (depending on shield of course). I take it you have no idea what that means and I'd just get a finger cramp trying to explain it to you.

As for my little number crunching world, I realize somethings aren't reflected in the math provided. They were only a reflection of autoattack damage, as I said well over a week ago. 200 points of haste (125%) is 200 points of haste no matter what weapon you're wielding. If you have a point with your rambling about haste, I don't see it. Every weapon is sped up the same percentage. There is an advantage to weapons with a slower delay (do you even know what it is, or are you quoting me from another thread?), but that is independent of damage range or 1H vs 2H. Crits also favor the larger damage range, which is also independent of a 1H vs 2H.

You apparently don't even know what ignorance is.

oh mate, that was funny to read at best, so /clap.
a) About the avoidance 4% comment, im well aware thanks. If you weren't such a tool, you would realise 4 points in that block gives.. 4% avoidance!!! im not maxing it, and im not even referring to the stat bonus it gives with the +1% block etc, i meant it exactly how i was typed.
b) Damage ratings are busted, said it a ton of times. The example i gave was simply stating that the delay of a weapon will give a truly false reading of the weapons potential damage, hence why they are being reviewed.
c) As for the STA build i was trying, i went over on points yeppers. Look at what i have now and the rest are going into the xxx4x block of STA.
d) Yes, larger damage ranges can provide smaller hits, however the chance to swing high counters it vs a 1 hander.
e) You can post numbers where ever you like, i play the game and actually have proven my points, please go in game, thats right... PLAY the game and give me screenshots etc. Oh wait, your not on a PvP server and have NO idea what its like in a top end pvp guild raiding and the various roles tanks can take on. /pout sux to be you.
f) I have never and will never quote you, no need for it. Most of your posts just prove you have WAY too much time on your hands, and are clearly put down IRL so have to TRY and make yourself out to be the number cruncher (which you definately are), however i love knowing that it winds you up when i post and you know im correct.
All in all, your post was long, and looked impressive, but simply well..... said nothing?

/clap funny stuff to read during my lunchies.

/sigh, think you missed my point... or agreed with me, not quite sure which it is from what you wrote.
The point is that when people compare anything, and do their uber number crunching they always single out what they wanna compare and assume all else is equal.

"According to the math you would have to have one really realy crappy 1hander for a 2hander to be competetive with buckler spec...like a 60dr 1hander with double attack still comes out to 105 dr with 76% double attack"
Fails to take into account that the points will have been spent elsewhere, making the comparison pointless. I see it over and over again on these forums (EQ, not zerker specifficall).
There is always a trade off, if not in lowering a stat then in opotunity cost of not raising another. If you've taken bucker, then you haven't maxed haste, dps and crit hits (because you can't) like someone with a 2 hander could have. making a statement like "1 hander x1.75 = better than a 2 hander" completely silly.
Yes number crunching is great, but you have to be aware of what you're doing.
Message Edited by WolfShark on 01-18-2007 12:54 PM

I disagreed that I didn't spend any points. I agreed AA build is very important. I also gave some AA build examples and numbers which seems to have left some people cross-eyed. My apologies. I wasn't trying to offend the mentally challenged.

That statement did, yes. I didn't make that statement. That was made by someone who participated in the so called controlled parse. I agree with you there 110%. In fact, my posts from weeks ago when that statement was made said as much.

That's right, you have to know what you're doing. You do understand where the 'DR * 1.76' comes from, no? It's been spelled out for us months ago. If you want the largest gain in autoattack damage then you use the largest modifiers given your weapon choice. If you ignore the numbers, then you don't know what you can gain from each line. You can ignore it all you like, but these game mechanics are based on simple math.

I also never stated '1 hander x1.75 = better than a 2 hander'. For several weeks now I have posted in this thread (and others) saying AA build matters, and weapon choice matters. In fact, I believe I blatantly right out dismissed that statement. One of the replies I received is what you keep quoting. You even highlighted it this time. I've also given numbers as an example why that statement doesn't hold true.

Why the numbers? You quoted it. They are in response to that. Also, paying to have my AA's done and posting parses just to satisfy some hard headed folks is just not worth my time or effort. The numbers hold true to parses. Every build I've played with so far has fallen right where I have expected it to. See for yourself. Dismiss them all you like. Play how you want. They were meant to be informative, not forced down your throat.

There is no need to talk about tanking trade offs here. The whole thread was about pure DPS builds.
Message Edited by uux on 01-18-2007 09:46 AM

That line gives +% to block and +% to parry from other quadrants (and riposte isn't avoidance, so not mentioning it). How it affects you overall is dependent on your shield and current avoidance. Do you realize what 4% alone does for you? That's 1 out of every 25 hits dodged if luck is on your side. It might actually work out to be 4 out of 100 hits missed. Oh wait, you said it goes off a lot. Nevermind.
It's 4.5% additional block with 8 points sunk into it. You state your only going 4 points. I'd gather it's about half then, 2.2-2.3% block. You're getting 4% avoidance from 2% block? That's just simply amazing. So amazing in fact, that I think you're playing a different game.

Someone doesn't know about /weaponstats I think. Someone also doesn't understand base damage ratings. Your example proved the base damage rating held true. The weapon that has the higher max range hit harder (at least one time). Again I ask, what were you expecting? It's true there are other outside mechanics at play (like hit ratio, etc). You didn't mention that though. You seem to just be making stuff up as you go along.

The point seems to have gone over your head. You claimed to have a 1H DPS build and stated it was worse than the 2H build you had. You didn't have the points you claimed to, you didn't have the build you claimed to. Are we supposed to just accept everything else as truth then? I for one see someone who makes constant false statements as always making false statements unless they can provide backing information. You have provided nothing other than your word, which doesn't appear to be worth very much at all.

Not really. The 1H usually hits more consistently. The same is true with a fast 2H that has a smaller range, but equal damage rating to a slow 2H. As I stated, it has nothing to do with a 1H vs 2H. You're actually talking about probability and luck now. Not some mysterious magic at play behind the scenes. I could show you the math behind it, but then there's that finger cramp again, and those numbers which seem to upset you and a few others.

I have no idea what it's like to be in a raiding guild? LMFAO. How is a screenshot going to prove DPS? LMFAO!! Where are your screenshots? ROFL!! I've been playing longer than you! HAHAHA!
You're now taking a discussion about improving DPS with the available choices and turning it into a pissing contest, just like every post you have made. It doesn't even have anything to do with PvP. I'd honestly feel quite ashamed being guilded with you. I feel sorry for that monk that posted earlier who tried to stick up for you. You've made claims which you can't back up and when asked to, you simply make personal attacks. You can make fun of the numbers, etc. They're at least supporting facts for my arguments.

It doesn't wind me up. It entertains me. Don't you like watching comedies? That's what your posts are to me. As for RL, I'm doing quite well, thank you. For someone that has almost 150 more posts than myself, you really shouldn't comment on how much time I spend on the forums.
You never answered my question regarding haste. I don't think you can either. You're just repeating something I said in another thread and too dumb to realize it. It's pretty clear that you're talking out of your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and just tooting your own horn.
My post said nothing? That just goes back to the ignorance thing again. Oh, and believe me when I tell you, it's even funnier on this side of the screen. I'm not even going to bother responding to you unless you have something factual to provide.

EDIT:
I may have to retract my last statement. Apparently you win something for getting the last word in, completely changing the subject, using tactics only frauds and rakes use, and adding incoherent rambling and name calling. My apologies to everyone else for even contributing to it.
Message Edited by uux on 01-18-2007 12:20 PM

Fact, I WON!

Your a tool. You just cannot read anything, all the stuff your saying i dont say... i actually do? You say i dont know /weaponstat rofl... or how damage ratings are worked out? Wait, was it not me saying all along 2 hander > 1 hander and buckler for dps? Of course not, everyone will deny they ever said 1 hander was better.
Raiding guild? i mentioned PvP servers, purely cos a) masters are harder to come by, b) gear is harder to come by c) things are generally a lot different, so yes it does have an impact ya nub.
Anyway, as this isnt fact you wont be replying, so if you do your actually agreeing that you cant read.


awesome statement from you.

Grats! You won. Will you go away now?

As you say, a parse may not lie, but it also does not show all that comes into play with the number it generates. You could take the same zerker with the same equip and have a parse all over the board depending on group setup, what mob/zone, and what other classes were in the raid for debuffing etc.


If you want a real answer to 1 hander VS 2 hander you need to have the exact same zerker with the eaxct same group and raid in the exact same zone several times.

Actually, I won....19 out of 20 fights...don't worry though, we don't even need the arena now...

I don't like it when mommy and daddy fight, waaaaaaaah! *cries*

56 zerker still confused

Check buckler reversal, it doesnt proc 1 time, it procs 6 different times or whatever providing i meet each of the criteria.

That was what caused you to win Syrius, the fights were within 5% each time, and without that you would of been lying face down. I've been using the buckler for the past few weeks to test it, and the DPS drop unless i was tanking was amazingly different, So in a DPS role, the buckler line is good, but not half as effective unelss your tanking.

The irony is that the big 2hander zerk died to the tiny little buckler...had nothing to do with the skill of the players...oh no...

I thought it was also ironic that the self-proclaimed "champion of 2 handers" is now using a buckler build. Oh wait, according to eq2players, he's not ... /boggle

Ok, I am very confused reading through this. What I want is to be raid ready. I want to have the best of both worlds, DPS and Tanking ability. Currently I am using A Buckler and a 1H weapon. My AA's (only have 44 currently) are as follows:
4/4/3 STR
4/4 AGI
4/5/5 STA
4/4/2 INT

WIth this setup, I'd say its ok (I have no idea how to crunch the numbers but in a group that was parsing with a coercers dps buff cast on me, I was averaging about 281dps...) I assume my setup is not that good because against other zerkers, I have gotten my [I cannot control my vocabulary] kicked in some duels. Also I am on a PVE server. My question is what is the best combo for what I have stated I want above?

Any help would be awesome!

I did have the buckler line, as i was providing a light-tank role in PvP, however now im specced back to DPS hence the 2 hander.

And thanks, the "Champion of 2 handers" has a ring to it!

The thing you are all forgetting is that crits doesnt just multiply a random number of dmg in the dmg range of a weapon. Crits work very complicated. When you ahve a weapon with a dmg range for 25 to 75 you can calculate your crit range as followed:

75/25 = 3

the crit dmg will be betwean 76 and 75*1.3

(explained very basic if you want to know more look around in the berzerker forum)

when you have a weapon with a very large dmg range and a lot of crits you will get big crits and you wont get a lot of low dmg hits.

this is why you do more dmg with a good 2h with a large dmg range than with the buckler aa tree

3 mob or more Encounter let me spec Stam/Str/Agil and ull never beat my DPS

Single Target Stam/Str/Int and ull never beat my DPS

Plus i can tank better with sheild.

Personally im ST in my guild so im Tank Specced Agil/Int with tower sheild then i swap to 2 hand sword to up my DPS when needed.

If you want to be "raid-ready" squirrel..then personally I'd stay out of the STA line.
The ability to use a tower/kite shield as a tank in raid situations is pretty handy. Plus if you go down the WIS line to the end and get the final ability you can get no penaties for you offense/defense stances. My raid/dps build was this:
STR 4/4/8
WIS 4/4/8/4/8
INT 4/1

there's other ways of doing it, and probably better but that'll give ya an idea of where to aim.

Strength: Crits, crits, crits!! Gotta have crits! (you can also forgo the INT line and put into the next ability in STR if you feel so inclined)
Wisdom: the DPS bonus is nice because it's a straight increase to autoattack damage, plus the final ability of course!
Intelligence: This is purely for adding 23 to haste for 5 points...one of the best deals in our AA line, problem is (and it's not too big a deal actually) you need to use a sword to use the ability.
if your sitting at 44 points (or so) then you can do the INT line last, or split up the eights...your choice there.

I am intrigued by the possibility of STA+AGI. Take the 76% double attack from STA and stack the 24% chance to hit multiple mobs with all those double attacks and there is a huge dps potential there in large encounters. Plus the AGI line gives +def.

My only issue with it is that I solo about half the time and thus the AGI would largely be wasted at those times.

So:
STA 4/4/8/8 = 76% autoattack + buckler reversal + 4.5% block bonus
AGI 4/4/8/8 = 24% multiple attack + defense bonus (still untested as far as I know)

This build still leaves 10 points to get a small crit, dps or haste bonus.

I am currently STA 4/4/8 WIS 4/4/8/4 and saving for final WIS ability. I am happy enough with it for now but always thinking about options.