DPS with Stam line... 1h and shield or 2h/DW?

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Derelict_Coma, Dec 19, 2006.

  1. ARCHIVED-Legiax Guest

    0.6 might be, but i can get to 215 haste with some friends, so i'll buy a 1.3 delay weapon then try and let you all know.

    However, in theory if they had to do a cap, you would have to make it at least 0.1, as if you were hitting at "infinity" speed, you would swing once then auto kill every mob you hit, as you would hit an unlimited amount of times in that 0.0 second :eek:
  2. ARCHIVED-hakedu Guest

    Here's some data from a fight I tanked Zylphax the Shredder, limited to melee only:
    Total attacks: 265
    55 Misses (20.7%) Shredder just flat out failed his attack roll, or I "dodged." This is with roughly 430 defense.
    26 Riposte (9.8%) Riposte is from my testing, uncontested. I have full STA ripote and the riposte adorn.
    35 Parries (13.2%) This is with roughly 450 parry, with a dirge. This makes sense as I have 6.5% riposte rate base, 4.5% from achievement, 2 from adorn. Then 20% of parry become ripostes. 3.3/(3.3+13.2) = 20%, 6.5+3.3 = 9.8% which was my riposte rate above.
    11 Blocks (4.1%) This is all my 10.9% block chance came out to be, Buckler of the Howler + Sta block spec.
    11 Other-Blocks (4.1%) This is the number of times the paladin covering me blocked/parried/riposted.

    What i still dont understand:
    - Dimglow has 450 parry and parries ~ 16,5% (incl. ripostes from a parry)
    - i have 450 parry and parry ~ 6-7%

    Any ideas ?
  3. ARCHIVED-uux Guest

    The +riposte % from the stamina line and +riposte % on the weapon adorn seem to have an effect. While they aren't visible in the persona window under Parry or Base, overall avoidance does go up. It's possible that it's a display bug, or it could actually have an effect on parry.

    It was also a parse against one mob. Lucky streaks do happen.
  4. ARCHIVED-uux Guest

    A developer previously stated there is no cap on weapon delay. The only cap is on the amount of haste (200 points or 125%). You should note that 170 points of haste puts you very close to 100%. You would have to mouse over the number in your persona window for the exact percent.
  5. ARCHIVED-hakedu Guest

    i tanked Zylphax last week and the numbers were totally different 62 misses in total 18 blocks 9 parries 5 counter 30 misses 45 hits in total 18 with damage 27 without damage so it seems that avoidance depends heavily on the mob/zone. from my log of inner sanctum i would guess that only blocking is uncontested. in fth everything seems to be uncontested. it would be interesting to see some numbers from the sanctum with a buckler.
  6. ARCHIVED-FightGame Guest

    [p]125 points of haste = 100%. With the curve, I'd guess 170 points is right around 118%[/p]
  7. ARCHIVED-uux Guest

    I'd guess about the same. Which also means with the 1.2 delay weapon the poster mentioned would be hasted to about 0.55. Considering at 100% it is hasted to 0.6, I consider that very close. 1/20th of a second difference. I have no idea if /weaponstats will display that fine a difference. Even so, it was previously stated by a dev that there is no cap on weapon delay, only haste.
  8. ARCHIVED-AtzeKillerOne Guest

    Well, don't know what your DPS classes are doing but our Necros parse round 2k-2.5k in DT and stuff like this Oo
  9. ARCHIVED-digitalblasphemy Guest

    Not one person has discussed DW weapons in this topic lol. I guess they have been ruled out as a viable dps option for our class. There are some great DW weapons out there, but I still don't see them as having as great an effect as 1H + buckler or a slow delay 2H. Back in T5 it was all about the RGF. The only 2H weapon I see that comes close to that insane flail is the \aITEM -1200085455 154004311:Vraksakin Claw Club\/a I've spent a long time reading and researching what builds going back to when KOS came out. I had originally thought that going WIS/INT for the haste/dps was the best option to go. But it became clear these were weak options in my opinion as they were the easiest things to buff. When a fellow Berserker who had only ever focused on dps, told me how awesome the STA line was, I was both skeptical and a little annoyed to tell you the truth. I didn't want my toon running around with this girlyman buckler strapped to my back lol. I wanted the glory days of uber 2H weapons back. Sadly, I've not seen any 2H weapon in KOS or EOF that has made me go wow. Only the Vrak club has come close. The Claymore 2H while looking totally amazing has both a terrible proc and DR. I know enough about DRs to see past that initial rating and look at the delay, mix/max range and so on. Sadly the 2H claymore flunks on all counts. Lately I've been tanking alot more raids. I have a Draconic Deflector which is still a great shield to use and my main tanking 1H is the Shadow Axe. I lose my double attack, but still maintain my crits and aoe melee ability. As long as I've got the hate, I haven't really cared what dps I've been doing when in this mode. But it's still rare for me to MT on a raid. I'm not going to spec and choose aa lines for the 1% of raids I do MT on. Rather I'm going to spec for the 99% of times I raid, and thats as an MA and dps person. Now this question goes out to Enrage. What is your self haste and dps at when you are using your 2h weapon? The reason I ask this is because I feel it is possible to come close and even match your dps in 2H mode, while still retaining a buckler build. I'm a big supporter of the STR,AGI,STA 448 club. If all you gained by picking WIS/INT was extra dps/haste, then in this day and age, that is such an easy thing to boost that I feel those points were in fact wasted. STR for crits is a no brainer to me. You do need to have a weapon with a nice min/max damage spread to really see the benefits of this though. My preferred weapon of choice, the Cudgel of Pain has a great crit ratio. The AGI aoe melee attack AA is also great. It's not going to help you on simply a single mob, that I concede no doubt. But we are AOE specialists. Rather than ignore this fact, I embrace it and look forward to being able to unleash my abilities. Whether soloing, grouping, dungeon crawling or killing raid trash mobs, aoe's are a big part of this game. Having a power free permanent version of our Open Wounds spell (granted it's 24% and not 100%), is to me simply gravy. I love it. Add in the STA line 76% double attack and you're a mean fighting machine. Now with the STR,AGI,STA 448 build, regardless of whether you are in 1H + buckler or 2H mode, you will still retain the benefits of STR & AGI. You will not have as much as haste or dps mod when using a 2H in this build, but if grouped you can easily buff those right back up again. Technically on paper the STR,AGI,STA 448 club may not be the best 2H build, but I think it is. It gives you the versatility to go buckler, or 2H at simply a click of your hotbar. Anyway Enrage, if you could post your current AA line choices, I would appreciate it.
  10. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    If we are talking top tier weapons here i can 100% say that 1hander+buckler will easily out DPS a 2hander. Reason for this is that several 1 handers are well above 90 damage rating and the highest 2 hander i know of is less then 104. If anyone doesnt believe me about this im willing to post parses on low green heroics in a controlled enviorment.
  11. ARCHIVED-uux Guest

    The only thing I would add is that AA build is important. It's very possible to have a defensive buckler build and not outparse a 2H build. I also stated a while ago that the available 1H weapons aren't exactly in line with the 2H ones. The 1H weapons do scale higher when it comes to the top tier. In fact, it's not even limited to the top tier. A lot of people are overlooking procs, etc. One of my favorite EoF 1H weapons is Empowered Ghoulbane with a damage rating of 66. Certainly doesn't sound like top tier with that rating. However, the extra effect is being overlooked. It does extra divine damage per hit against undead mobs (Deathtoll, Inner Sanctum, Freethinkers, Castle Mistmoore, upper Mistmoore Catacombs, ...). The actual damage is based on INT. I see about 35-55 extra damage per hit (and my INT is very low) in a normal group setting. With a delay of 1.6, that makes it roughly 56 DPS extra ((35 + 55) / 1.6). Now add that to the base of 66, and you have a weapon with around a 122 DR. We haven't even touched the double attack yet, or the activatable feature of Empowered Ghoulbane. It's apparently not a proc either, as it will do the extra divine damage with each hit of the double attack. If there are 2H weapons in the game that work this well, I have yet to see them.
  12. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    When comparing the 2 it would be assumed that one line is the same (maybe str or int) and only the buckler line would be swaped for something else. You are deffinatly right about the scaling of weapons, even stuff that pumpkin is droping has a damage rating of less then 102 while clearcutter is 95. You also want to assume that you arent parsing on a situational mob that would benefit one weapon over the other, IE controlled parse. Wouldnt really make much sense to say that yeah, a 1 hand slasher does way less DPS then a 2 hand peircer on a mob immune to slash. Same idea would go with GB
  13. ARCHIVED-uux Guest

    When I first started reading this thread, I too assumed people were comparing similar builds. It didn't take long to realize they weren't. Many people seem to think simply having 4-4-8 down stamina will always out DPS any 2H build. I just wanted to reinforce how important AA build is. Also, I didn't really compare GB with anything in particular. It is a very easily obtained weapon, and that was more of the point I was trying to make. It takes some time to get all the components, but the whole quest line that it is a part of is easily duo'd. The details of the weapon were more for the nay-sayers who would think such a weapon would never outperform their favorite 2H. My previous posts used mastercrafted weapons for a comparison. They are without a doubt the same quality tier and can share the same proc and stats.
  14. ARCHIVED-Legiax Guest

    [p]I like to think, as a community we've all come a long way in recent months with understanding our tanking ability and DPS potential.[/p][p]Its become no hidden secret, that if you want to find out about DPS in general, and the modifiers, you come to the zerker forum and look around, which says a lot about the people who contribute.[/p][p]However, the one thing which WILL harm us, is going back on what we've researched and found it. I was ALWAYS the biggest nay-sayer of the buckler line, and now I happily admit, it rocks as a DPS / Tank build, good all rounder. On the other hand, I will always support that 2 handers on a pure DPS spec out damage the buckler.[/p][p]Recently a lot of people have changed views, myself and Uux seemed to bang heads every other post, constantly proving 1 point over the other, and now we seem to agree a lot, which shows not only myself, but others developing open minds to ideas.[/p][p]All in all guys, lets progress forward, theres a wealth of information here, and simply saying "xxx is better!! cos i say so!!" is anything but progression. [/p][p]Sorry this is a little off topic, but some of the posts here were getting a little "bah! im right cos i am!!" style.[/p][p] [/p][p] [/p]
  15. ARCHIVED-Hardain Guest

    It doesn't work that way, 56 extra dmg per hit isn't same as 56DR. Not even close. Actual damage and DR aren't same thing, neither is DPS. With that math my axe with 77 DR would deal 77 dmg per hit.
  16. ARCHIVED-uux Guest

    It wasn't 56 extra damage per hit. It's reduced to per second, not per hit, by dividing by delay. However, I did mess up. The number is inflated. I meant to take the average and didn't. Examining the weapon, I see a range of 31-39 extra divine per hit (and I'll use that over my previous observed values as well). So, it should be: ((31 + 39) / 2) divine damage / 1.6 seconds = 21.88 divine damage per second. Just like I assumed everyone knew AA build was important, I assumed everyone knew the difference between base damage and actual damage and it didn't need to be said. That's what I get for assuming I guess. I should probably mention 2H's tend to have procs as well before someone jumps on me for that, too. It's completely missing the point. Using the base damage rating for the forums is fine. Use /weaponstats for the actual game, as I mentioned well over a month ago in this very thread. Actual damage varies too much between players to be useful here. What I see with my current STR and INT isn't necessarily what everyone will see. I've actually had this weapon do slightly over 100 extra damage per hit in actual game play depending on group make up. As I mentioned months ago as well, there are other factors that aren't in the math either, such as the random number generator. If you have a better way to compare things other than by averages and base damage, then be my guest. I always like to learn how to do things better.

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