DPS with Stam line... 1h and shield or 2h/DW?

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Derelict_Coma, Dec 19, 2006.

  1. ARCHIVED-Derelict_Coma Guest

    I've come across a few situations where there is a designated tank already as my level 34 Berserker, and I'm actually curious as to what does more DPS, my 1h and shield set-up with 4-4-8-8 Stamina line, or is a 2h or DW better DPS to deal possibly significant damage? I'm curious!
  2. ARCHIVED-Fazzarya Guest

    Unless your 2 hander is a lot better then your one hander, the buckler with max double attack will be more dps.
  3. ARCHIVED-Legiax Guest

    It depends on a lot of things.

    The quality of your weapon is a big one. If you have a 1 handed fabled, and a 2 handed treasured, then the chances are your 1 hander will be much better. At your level, buckler might be better. However at end game, i find 2 hander better, and so do the raid parses i've topped :)
    Your best looking through the forum, as this topic has been rinse washed and repeated 50540540540540 times.
    However, if your main tanking I would use a tower shield, the buckler line is good, but the protection offered by a tower shield is just sooo much better.
  4. ARCHIVED-Gortesh Guest

    Protection = Avoidance, if you have'nt noticed

    I have one of the new sheilds, Badge of Service, it has a +4 to defense modifier on it. This sheild with the buckler lines +block skill gives me more avoidance than the Sheild of Wurms does. Also with adornments, its easier to acheive an even higher avoidance rating, even though it rounds off after you get so high.

    Buckler + +7 parry adornment + +block adornments + +Block acheivement(basically) = Tower Sheild

    I've tanked every monolith, Ghazi, Vyemm and Amorphus drake, and not being MT in the guild either.
  5. ARCHIVED-Conjourer Guest

    Gortesh don't waste your time trying to talk to Enrage, he says he tops parses, but refuses to come out and parse with me in a controlled setting...as far as I know he isn't really even a zerker...*shrugs*
    I am fully prepared to post the outcome of our test, but I would bet a fair amount of coin (say 3pp?) that he doesn't outparse me with his 2hander...

    As for the OP if you have similar quaility weapons in your 1hander and 2 hander, buckler will win dps every time...no matter what AA spec you try with the 2 hander. As for buckler vs tower if you have similar quailty in your tower and buckler ie legendary vs fabled vs treasured then you are going to lose about 5% total Avoidance by going buckler instead of Tower. Here is an example:
    I have a Fabled Tower shield - Vilucidae's Guard
    I have a legendary Buckler (actually I have 4 bucklers, but the one I use the most is legendary) - Iron Plate of Shielding
    With Vilu's Guard I get 19% block which is uncontested against all mobs, very nice. My overal avoidance is aout 48% self buffed with that Tower shield equiped. With Ironplate and 8 points into the defensive position of Sta line I get about 9% block which is uncontested and about 44% total Avoidance. The difference is buckler line gives me 4.5% chance to riposte frontal attacks, and 4.5% chance to parry attacks from other quadrants. This is a big gain in my oppinion. Its an additional 360 degree avoidance you don't get with a tower. How many times have you pulled a linked encounter and had some of them to your sides or even behind you? Tower's 19% block affords you exactly zero protection against a mob who is behind you....don't even get me started on PvP when you have scouts behind you...
    So the real question is, are you willing to **** your dps to that of a angry mage, who is completely out of power, just for 5% extra Avoidance while tanking? When your not tanking I guess the 2 hander could do similar dps to the buckler/1hander...but not the same, not by a long shot ((**disclaimer** one weapons, the Vrakskins claw club will in fact do more dps then buckler spec, if yuo have crits)) I never get tired of this argument over which does more dps...because people never cease to amaze me with their oppinion...
    I tank raids with my buckler, and I don't have any problems...I would like to see a 2 handed zerker tanking say labs and doing equal dps to me, and not getting spiked to death on pulls...


    Message Edited by Conjourer on 12-19-2006 08:11 AM
  6. ARCHIVED-Kage848 Guest

    I can only speak from my exp, but....

    Talking just on the dps part i was useing the Pike of Pain and total dps speced AA line....

    The I got a Cudgle of Pain and went sta and my parse's went up alot. Both weapons are basicly the same except one is 1h and one is 2h, but there (i dont know what you would call it) comparable in power.

    Thats what happened with me and is as simple as i can make it.
  7. ARCHIVED-Amon` Guest

    At end game I find buckler with PAoD do way more damage than any 2 handed weapon - trust me I have intensely tested every aspect of this. At times you can get close with a 2 hander (especially when using open wounds and rampage), but not quite. Other than those close times, the buckler is going to somewhat anhialate a 2 handed (all things being equal).
    As for a tower shield offering so much more protection? That is total BS. With the block/riposte aa and in a regular group (with a fabled tower and legendary buckler I might add), my avoidance is only 3% less when using a buckler. It will be even smaller when I get a fabled buckler. And I haven't been able to reliably figure if the riposte bonus is added into your avoidance or not, so if it is not, that is an extra 4.5% meaning a legendary buckler actually gives me more avoidance.
  8. ARCHIVED-Legiax Guest

    Syrius, you speak such BS. I messaged you about 4 days ago every 5 minute sofr around 1 hour, you had no AFK message up, and you didnt come out.

    I even picked a spot in loping plains.


    So get your facts right before you start posting.
  9. ARCHIVED-Legiax Guest

    Also, Syrius you are on a PvP server. Come fight some of bel vaka and we'll test in my area as well as PvE.

    And secondly, you have not messaged me ONCE to ask me to come out for a parse test, which i am more than happy to do. So how can you say i wont come out?
  10. ARCHIVED-Fazzarya Guest

    I've parsed 2 handers vs buckler + 1hander for several different sets of weapons:
    Vraksin club, Claymore, Pike of pain, and the 2 hand hammer from the roost in a AA build for max damage with a 2 hander.
    Frostwrath, Ascendent, Cudgel of pain and some other crappy 1 handers with buckler and AA build for buckler dps
    2 hander dps was always less no matter what I tried and I REALLY wanted to be using a 2 hander. If it was even within 100 -200 dps I prob would have gone 2 hander but the parses always put the 1 hander+ buckler minimum of 350-400 dps increase.
    Rest of my gear is fabled with a legendary buckler Archaic/Badge of service.
    Tanking with a buckler in defensive stance really has no difference from the tower shield except your dps drops so much your raid has to back off a little more then usual.
  11. ARCHIVED-Legiax Guest

    I parse on average in a normal raid around 800dps with no destruction or open wounds. Thats purely just timing auto attacks with berserk and haste etc.

    If your saying a buckler and 1 hander would add 400, i'd be on 1.2k every fight on average and beating every single class in the raid by about 200 without doing anything remotely impressive like rambo.

    I dont think so! ><
  12. ARCHIVED-uux Guest

    Honestly, you shouldn't consistently parse higher than raid buffed dps classes with only 1.2k. I think you have some peeps that are slacking.
  13. ARCHIVED-Necodemus Guest

    Slower is the weapon, better is the DPS.
    Always get 200% dps and haste in raid, you'll DPS out anyone.
    Try to get stuff with crit bonus + AA crit (str 4/4/8).
    1h sta AA line is quite good.
    and 2H with str 4/4/8 int 4/4/8 wis 4/4/8 is also good, but don't forget, as you wear a 2h, to get the slowest weapon of the game.
  14. ARCHIVED-Conjourer Guest

    I do talk alot of crap Enrage...this is true. I just wanted to get you going so you would come out with me and do a controlled parse. If you want to fight in the arena, i am up for that too...I don't think it will show anything except who has the most skill, and in that contest, i will beat you undoubtedly...but I just have a big head and alot of self confidence I guess...

    Yeah, I got your one tell, when I was afk, and when I responded you had logged off. If we test, it won't be in Lopping plains, it has to be a controlled test so that accuracy will be at 100% taking any chance out of the parse results. I will fill you in on how its done when we get it going. If you want to set up a time and day ahead of time just PM me, or send me a ingame mail. I have alot of time right now, on vacation...just don't make it when Core is raiding as I am doing alot of MT duties right now...
  15. ARCHIVED-Legiax Guest

    Well, in vaka raids, every member is getting around 600ish, with swashies parsing near me on 800 ish.

    Now when you have 3 groups spitting out that dps, mobs drop insanely quick.


    1.2k dps is by no means the top when we all go for it, e.g. inspiration, destruction, apoc etc etc etc. However im on about 1.2k using no big abilities, just ur basic CA's and auto attacks.

    If your reaching 1.2k with just the basics, then thats impressive.


    @ Syrius, theres confidence, and arrogance. Which of those is better suited to you depends on you as a person.

    And in PvP, at the moment you have a good few weeks advantage on gear. However i'll be getting some more PvP gear in the next day or two, then it will be even, although i'd still slap your face into the floor.

    Also, the CORE raid thing, Vaka raid on the sunday during the same time as CORE, and we know this cos you all come and lag our vent out!


    Message Edited by Legiax on 12-20-2006 08:52 AM
  16. ARCHIVED-uux Guest

    I would just like to add to that and say get STR as high as possible as well.
  17. ARCHIVED-Conjourer Guest

    Your vent...*chuckles* is paid for by Rhoh and Zervun...the leaders and founder of Core....Oh, and those of us in Core that have donated to keep "your vent" going...I am an admin of "your vent"...are you?

    Sy
    Message Edited by Conjourer on 12-20-2006 09:23 AM
  18. ARCHIVED-uux Guest

    I don't think you even need a controlled parse to show that the STA line is the superior DPS modifier out of all the choices. The math behind it is sound. Doing comparable DPS with an equal quality 2H pretty much *requires* the use of multiple lines.

    It seems a lot of people have gotten the double attack as high as possible, then focused on the WIS or AGI line. Those are probably the weakest lines to stack with STA for pure dps. The AoE in the AGI line is situational (doesn't help at all against a single target; scales higher with multiple targets). The +dps in the WIS line is less that the total potential haste gained from dumping the same amount of points into the INT line (if you use a sword). If given the choice of the same amount of +haste or +dps, haste will usually be better unless already capped. Haste means more opportunities to proc (double attack) and more chances to crit (STR line). Given that, I would make a dps build out of STR 4/4/8, STA 4/4/8, and INT 4/4/8 (and find a good 1H sword; spend the extra point whereever you see the most benefit).

    So, I'm agreeing with this poster. I'm fairly certain a 1H will always beat a comparable 2H when the AA build is stacked with the STA line.
  19. ARCHIVED-FightGame Guest

    Depends on several things. Depends on how good your 1 hander is. Depends on how good your 2 hander is. Depends on good both your DW's are. And the type of weapon (crush, slash, pierce) and what your skill is for each (more so when fighjting higher level mobs). Depends a little on other things as well, and the only way to ever know, is to download a parser and check for yourself. And when running your tests, be sure to fight the same mobs over and over, as different mobs may be more resistant to a certain weapon (and/or maybe the proc on it). And even when you do find that 1 way is better than the others, there still may be certain mobs out there, where using a different set up would be better because of thier different resists.
    For me, the answer has been clear. Stamina 4-8-8-8, Strength 4-4-8-5. Most dps I've ever done uses buckler and 1h. I do have a great 1h though. And since the new mitigation curve is so crappy, and higher level epic mobs scaling down our avoidance (defense and parry), this set up has been fine in a raid tank position, atleast so far. For even more dps, you could drop the 5 points I have in hate and go 5-8-8 in strength. Actually, if you aren't tanking much, you should go without the 8 points giving added block percent (4th ability in stamina line).
    Max dps, imo, would be sta 4-4-8, str 4-5-8, wis 4-4-8. I know you probably don't have all of these points yet...

    Edit: to the people here who think they have high dps (even more so - when using a 2h over buckler). When you're in halls of fate and get to the room with all the drakes, what's your average dps? Is it over 3k every time? I think a fight like this is a good one to compare, atleast amoung zerkers, because of the massive aoe's, and they don't hit hard enough to kill ya.
    Message Edited by FightGame on 12-20-2006 05:09 PM
  20. ARCHIVED-Fazzarya Guest

    I'm sorry if you don't believe me but I really have no reason to make this up. I am sure there are a dozen other zerks who read this board that parse 1100+ consistently.
    1200dps is an easy number to parse at if your geared appropriately. Our DPS classes come in around 1600-2100 and much higher when special circumstances occur.