The only way I can see that many happening is if the mobs are putting out aoe's almost constantly. But I am not sure what a "frame" is, or there are tons of dots being cast by the mobs. At this point I am a bit skeptical.
It doesn't affect lag at all. This is there way of trying to address it without having to change mob encounters. This will just make clerics even less desired and guess what, you will still have the severe lag.
And notice the COMPLETE lag of response? Ill repeat The fact that it TRIGGERS that much is CAUSED by the game mechanics, and the encounters. To quote : How the HECK do your expect us to cope with THAT many damage hits if we cant be allowed to HEAL them ?!
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOKKKKKKK Let me see if I understand this correctly.... I zone into Hidden Caldera (advance solo). Start running and grab every single mob until the first boss. Just has I'm about to hit the floor, I hit DG. At this point I have about 30 mobs around me, including the boss. Now your telling me from this point on and for the next 20 seconds.... I'm lagging the entire server ? Really ? Seriously ? I'm speechless... Thor
Yeah, OF COURSE there isnt anything wrong with a mechanism that makes 100 hits in a single frame. And OF COURSE those 100+ hits in a single frame do absolutely nothing to contribute to the lag...
So tempting to make a macro: /cast DG /tell General Beware! Server lags for the next 20 seconds incoming. Seriously, blaming dg for server lags is the worst excuse ever.
Of course it is DG and not the amplifying effects, Chain of Sacred Treasures, Practiced Powers or any of the like procs... If they understood the mechanisms they made themselves, they would know that all those special incremental procs need to be changed.
Well, that's the real reason: 1) The Precipe of Power – Karana at 2015-03-03 12:17:25 PST. Since the launch of AoM Musketeers had not killed Karana as he’s intended to be killed. On the FK Musketeers had ~150 deaths during the encounter. I have no data to comment subsequent kills, but the last one 2015-04-11 12:00 PST(approximately) At the first glance you can notice that an x4 contested avatar is pulled by 12 people only. Why? Because it’s easy to heal an x2 raid using templar’s “Divine Guidance” during damage spikes which occur due to inability to complete lightning cages event correctly. The main and the actual reason why they were x2 is that there are less deaths during encounter, hence, the fail condition of too many deaths does not trigger. Let’s investigate templar’s (name: “Исцеление” #2 ) outgoing HPS: 72% of templar’s HPS consists of clicking the same button 4 times during the encounter. Not bad, isn’t it? The second templar’s (name: “Неда” #1 ) HPS figure is similar. The only difference is that her group had 3 priests. So, we have 3255 DG Исцеление's procs and 2750 DG Неда's procs as I recall. 6k procs over 4*20seconds=80 sec of total duration. It's 75 procs/sec on average. But those were not average, those were 300 procs/second on peak. You'd better "ZERO THEM PROGRESS" instead of nerfing Divine Guidance
Good work on that, and it shows what is really happening over time. It looks to me like the mechanics of the proc are the real problem, and that is a game design problem.
It's not the real reason since Caith specified it. Also, what about at least two channeler's abilities that ignore scripts? Should we reset progres for every guild in the world? I agree some abilities make some fights trivial, and they were not intended for it. But to me it means that fights, not abilities, should be fixed.
They are doing the same thing with berserker. Pretty much ruining the spells and abilities we have had for many years, sure it lags. However why not "change it" to something else instead? Something like damage reduction with a triggering proc? Everquest 1 nerfed all of their abilities like this too, however they at least changed or modified them to be something unique and different!
Thanks for the example of an encounter where Divine Guidance is capable of amazing things. I believe it is reasonable to say this encounter is an exception, not the standard. With such, it does not seem right that class defining abilities should be balanced or adjusted around it. It would make more sense to adjust the encounter slightly. I find myself wondering, why do Devs code things with a damage component that can apply so fast, then claim lag is the fault of player abilities reacting to a the rate said damage is applied? If SOE/DBG does not want something to be healed through with reactive heals, anyone who has raided with a cleric in the last couple of years is well aware that SOE/DBG is able to have abilities that do not trigger reactive heals. Still hoping to hear back from Caith, but not expecting anything over the weekend.
It's exactly what Caith was talking about. There is currently no problems with channeler, because his DG analogue is limited by 50 procs and channeler's abilities do not ignore scripts, lol. I don't want to reveal encounter-specific mechanics, but I assure you and want to stress that if M. would not try to bypass the event because they don't know how to complete it, DG nerf would not occur. Each time when M. met the fail condition and must have died, the entire server was ought to participate in a ~4 sec lagfest. Lags were noticeable in every zone and were discussed in the common chat and the issue was reported. Just for laughs, lags were such that even when DG was precast, half of M. raidmembers died each time when the event-check occured. I suppose that server was simply unable to react more frequently to save everyone For those who have a raiding inquisitor or templar it's obvious that nerfing their main group save is a rare BS. Divine Guidance worked well for ages, but this one encounter. It's clear that the encounter should be adjusted, not the spell. Also, there should not be any similar encounters in future.
The ability, that allows to teleport a mage from the tube on Ka'Rah Ferun, resurection without triggering a fail condition on the next mob in that zone, revining a person with non-resurection debuf on Grethah. And speaking about channeler's DG..so 50 procs in one frame is fine, but we are still going to make the cleric's DG to proc only twice. Twenty five time less! Somehow I feel like there is an intentional campain is going against inquisitors. The list of abilities that need fixing and issues can be several pages long. And again, back to DG, fix the encounter not the spell.
I admire your efforts of convincing the people who have control over this game's source to do the right thing. I gave up to engage in this process after observing which game contents are given higher priorities as well as seeing the level of professional conduct regarding this product just being nothing more than stalling and delaying of urgent changes. I still hope the game designers and developers in charge value your input since their arguments being offered seem to reveal a certain ignorance and look like an excuse for the lack professional skill just giving you the opportunity to write down your thoughts only as a courtesy instead of considering it to make the right changes for you (who consume their product).
I was really not aware of that, perhaps, because our mages never died in the tube, except for the first pull. That really may be exploited and must be fixed, but still is insignificant when compared to bypassing avatar's event. When our mage accepted channeler's res, all our raid immidiately wiped, I bet that it's already fixed. Test / Beta Update Notes: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 Divine Guidance may now only trigger twice a second on each target. That means Divine Guidance is now limited to a maximum of 6*2*20=240 triggers per cast, whilst Truespirit Venom is limited to 50 shared triggers per cast. O.K. suppose a channeler may cast it twice in a row, even 3 times in a row when using "Dissipate", but that's still less than 240 triggers. However, I do agree that there's no need to nerf DG at all.
I was really hoping to hear back from Caith today. I can only hope to hear back from him tomorrow. Getting some specifics from Caith would allow a greater capacity to provide meaningful feedback. At the current time, all we have (from Caith) is a vague statement, with no way to verify if it is something to be expected in regular game play, or an extreme example where the problem is actually the encounter design, not DG. I really hope this change does not get forced upon the cleric community, without a reasonable opportunity to discuss.
As I stated before, if you are not bugging events on mobs like Karana avatar, that 240 triggers of heal per cast is pretty sure enough for the one clicky ability. And yes, I believe it was mainly nerfed due to that bug that I described to the developers 2 weeks ago, after Musketeers killed Karana using that, instead of doing event, to intend people stop abusing events with the abilities that got too powerful with that godlike numbers of potency and critical bonus nowadays. On usual encounters, doing events you will be okay with that healing. I do not see any mob for now where you need more than 2 triggers/sec/person, if you are following script, not trying to zerrrrggg mobs or skip the script.
