Divine guidance

Discussion in 'Test Server Forum' started by knine, Apr 15, 2015.

  1. Gninja Developer

    Just as a clarification... The change was not made to where the spell can only heal X number of times total per second. It was made where it can only heal EACH player X number of times per second. So healing one target versus the group will have no difference.
    Laiina likes this.
  2. Nindakin Member

    Right, this change won't have any impact in terms of divine guidance's ability to keep a group alive through pulse damage. However, the situation you cite where many mobs are hitting at once is a normal, unavoidable aspect of many encounters and I can think of several situations historically even at the heroic level, such as Korok Hai in Strategist's Stronghold and Zordak x2 last expansion, where I would not have been able to generate enough healing if this change to divine guidance were in place when they were current. As a current example, earlier in this thread I mentioned divine guidance triggering 13 times on a single target in a second during a trash in encounter in Bosun's Private Stock.

    In short, having many mobs on the group isn't always the result of a failure condition or intentionally mass pulling, and inquisitors in particular have very few other tools to effectively deal with very fast incoming hits. For this reason I ask you to err on the side of caution and increase the trigger limit to at least 10 times per second per target.
  3. Thor New Member

    So now when my tank is gonna zerg into a heroic zone, pick up about 15-30 trash mobs, my divine guidance won't keep him alive?
    When it normally would...
    When I, as an inquisitor zone into a adv solo and pull 30+ trash mobs my divine guidance won't keep me up?
    When it normally would...
    Sounds like a pretty solid nerf to a already hurting class

    Another question...
    How many inqs/templars does it take and cast DG simoultaneously to actually lag a server?
  4. Scrappyz Well-Known Member

    Soo as I've stated before all lag is relative.. therefore using "lag" as an excuse to why a group might wipe is a very poor excuse. I know people that have no lag what-so-ever and I know people that have severe lag problems(notably myself but I know the cause of my lag and it's certainly not from the clerics using DG).
  5. Gninja Developer

    No one said that this one ability was the root cause of all lag on all servers. But we have zone crashes and lag hits in our logs directly caused from this ability. We are going through any abilities that are potentially harmful to stability and making changes. AGAIN our intention is not to nerf so if it acts differently we will adjust it. Just because you guys claim it will act differently doesnt mean it does :p
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  6. Atan Well-Known Member

    Yes, cause 5 triggers a second isn't enough!
  7. quisling Well-Known Member

    /shrug. When damage is ticking 100 a second...
  8. Errrorr An Actual EQ2 Player

    What fights do you honestly have more than 5 procs of damage occurring every second per person?

    Sure it'll effect people mass pulling 100 mobs at once, but I'd rather we were able to raid without lag, and people have to pull slightly less mobs at a time.
    Mermut likes this.
  9. Ynnek Well-Known Member

    Based on the change as described, I worry about the Qworux fight in HH2. I'm sure the spider swarm that comes in when she withdraws that hit one person 10 times a second are harmless to large raiders, but they're not harmless to us, and DG is a big part of how I heal through it. I'm not entirely sure I can handle it after this nerf...
    Malleria likes this.
  10. Atan Well-Known Member

    Probably the same way other healers have to deal with it. DG will still be a significant tool to handling it, it just might not do it all on its own.
    Mermut likes this.
  11. Deeku Member

    This nerf will have zero impact on lag. If you pull so many mobs that only DG will keep your group alive, you will wipe after 24 seconds. Yet there is no less lag after DG has ran out.

    Also lag seems pretty specific for HH raid instance, haven't really had much lag anywhere else.

    But come to think of it, I do remember similar lag in one of the Skyshrine raid instances, that was on the huge groups of mobs where using ET and Curse of Darkness made some people time out from the game.
  12. knine Well-Known Member


    Actually caith said it was the largest contributor to the lag issues and said that it is broken. I would go through jewelry procs and such before abilities.
    Malleria likes this.
  13. Scrappyz Well-Known Member

    So let's break the Summoner's ET but heaven forbid we touch the precious Locks.. If Curse of Darkness had issues, then that should get "nerfed" as well.. just sayin
    Thor likes this.
  14. Flatline Well-Known Member

    Hmms... if you say so :) however if a Dot ticks every 2 seconds for 100K damage on a group, that would eat a Clerics group reactive in .. 2 seconds, where as druid heals keep on going, having no MAX amount of triggers they can trigger etc.
    I know, its the class we chose to play, but with constantly ticking damage, reactives just VANISH. which is why i added the 'if you say so' because, frankly .. they dont vanish however people still take damage. or am i just unlucky and always visiting the places with the 'uncommon damage DoT' ? :)
  15. Avirodar Well-Known Member

    When it comes to logs directly pointing at DG as causes of zone crashes and lag hits - can you please tell us what encounter(s) were being pulled, in what zone, and if it was by an X4, X2, 6 man, or solo?

    I would love to give some more feedback, but would like to get some clarification first.

    Thank you.
  16. Thor New Member

    Now that I think of it... I REALLY don't remember EVER crashing or losing connection while DG was cast...
    Zone Crashes ? Lag hits ?
    How about you copy n paste those logs so we believe you, because from where I'm standing that sounds like
    horse****.

    This is a nerf, plain and simple.

    Pretty soon my inquisitor will be considered a utility class.

    UMADBRO ? yes I am.
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  17. Ambi Member

    Ask for ssssssstoneskins



    So am I, but only cause my friends leave me for rawr sheep.
    Scrappyz and Thor like this.
  18. Malleria Well-Known Member

    The thing is Gninja, clerics have been using DG for mass pulling for years with no adverse effects, and now all of a sudden it's being nerfed adjusted because the game is experiencing severe lag issues. If DG was really the problem, why has lag never been an issue with it in the past? Truly the only times I can remember using DG while mass-pulling causing performance issues was in dungeon maker when I was PLing - but that wasn't even server lag, it was my computer not liking running three accounts while pulling 100+ mobs. So what has changed to make you suddenly think DG is part of the problem? Does it not make more sense to look at what has changed in the last 6 months?
    quisling, Avirodar and Thor like this.
  19. Avirodar Well-Known Member

    That is why I have asked both Caith and Gninja for actual details, specifically what encounter/zone, and under what conditions. They claimed DG causes lag, but have made absolutely no attempt to specify when and where. I would love to discuss the change, based upon on the merits of the reasons for adjusting it. But what are these actual reasons?

    Sadly, both Caith and Gninja have been unwilling to provide any actual details. As for why? I can only speculate, and most of the speculation is bad. I sincerely hope that they are not blindly stabbing in the dark, willing to accept any collateral damage in their aspirations of hitting the lag beast. I hope this change is not based upon extremely rare and unrealistic scenarios where the issue is encounter design, not DG. But until they come forth with some information of sufficient merit, what else am I to believe?
  20. Anghammarad Well-Known Member

    I have to say, I only play for about nearly 3 years now. But I have seen several Addons from then till now.

    This spell Lag happened the first time for me with ToV. Before I never had any spell lag at all. Just frame drops with a trigger happy fest, which was performance related on my side (that time an old C2D E8400 with 4 gig Ram). But not the System not accepting 3-4 CAs but only every fifth. You can't keep up any DPS rotation, or heal rotation.

    The Inq was my first toon, the ranger my second, I do Tank and DPS in raids right now, healing only on group level, but was in MP once or twice as helping hand.

    The reactives we got do either not trigger, or heal way to less or are just gone in seconds.

    This I remember from ToV Tempel 3 Endboss fight. The monk had all reactives on him I could give, and after about 3 seconds they were gone. The spell monitor looked like a countdown when you did cut the wrong wire while desfusing a bomb...

    My Inq, Ranger, Mouzerker are all in my signature for taking a peek.
    Need to fix the Mouzerker equip though as well as the Inq due to received upgrades. So no bashing on those poor toons =)

    Being not in Raid but in heroic zones we can nearly pull an entire floor without having nearly any of this lag issues.

    So for me everything started with this new proc itemization that started with ToV, or was rebooted then.

    And It got worse and worse the older the addon got, due to more people getting equipped with all that heavy duty stuff.

    With this changes some fights will become a lot more difficult than they are now. For example Morin and Barin with all the adds spawning.

    I think a lot of this has other causes like uplifting effects and such alike which are not proccing for the wearer each but are talking with the whole group/raid who has it? who's wearing it? You do? Yes? Cool, oh sorry not stack up for you, next round perhaps.

    In my thinking, this stuff, as good as it is, is harming a lot more of the performance as DG. Like been said above, DG was fine all the years, even with "zone pulls" but rigth now not anymore?

    To be honest, things started to get worse with ToV, so take a look what has been implemented there, which hasn't been there before and what has been implemented with AoM in bigger doses than in ToV ... Uplifting, Practiced etc... In ToV only Raids that were good received this stuff. With AoM even entry level raids are getting this stuff so it's more widely spread.

    And like said before, It began with ToV, and got much worse with AoM for me.

    Sys Specs right now:

    Intel Core i5 3570K
    8 gig ram
    EQ2 installed on SSD
    Geforce 760 GTX
    Internet connection VDSL 50 Mbit down and 10 Mbit upstream.
    Not using Wireless with the gaming machines.

    And perhaps another thing I did find odd. The Logfiles from a raid evening 20:15-22:30 round about clearing MC, doing 2 bosses in HH, and perhaps the first in temple/ossuary my character logfile is nearly 200 MByte in size.

    This wasn't that bad before. There you can also see what is happening. A lot more then addons before.


    Cheers
    Ang/Ano/Yghi
    Malleria likes this.