Divine guidance

Discussion in 'Test Server Forum' started by knine, Apr 15, 2015.

  1. knine Well-Known Member

    here we go touching things that aren't broken. This will be broken for remainder of beta and will get put into live this way, just watch lol. They should concentrate on the tank hate issues and scout changes and not mess with something that wasn't broken to begin with.
  2. The Jones Active Member

    Maybe you could explain what the issue is?
  3. Caith Developer

    When something procs an unlimited amount of times in a single frame, and and has in live testing proced over 100 times in a single frame, it's broken, and is a large contributer to overall server lag.
    Kuulei, xkrisx and Neiloch like this.
  4. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    Hey there Caith - if I understand correctly, the goal here is not to make Divine Guidance (and by extension, Templars and Inquisitors) weaker but to correct a large factor in raid lag, yes? If so, would it be possible to consider some sort of counter measure to offset this? My suggestion would be to increase the amount of Max Health given by the ability to 30% instead of 20%. In all reality, the ability would still be a bit weaker than previously, but not by as much.

    Again, just something I'm tossing out there to help pacify those who are mourning this "nerf".
    Kuulei and Neiloch like this.
  5. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Definitely needs something to offset it. Obviously with procs so frequent that it causes performance problems putting a hard cap on it is going to impact its effectiveness by just as much. I would probably start with finding an 'upper average' and hard cap it there. If thats still far too much on the servers then lower it more and start boosting it else where like Mogrim suggested.

    Or is two times a second about what happens already and the 100 is just an extreme/rare, unacceptable occurrence?
  6. Dulcenia Well-Known Member

    Was the possibility to proc 100 times in 1 frame intended? If not, it may simply have been a bug that was enjoyed.
  7. Elaiya Member

    If this is changed something else needs to be done to offset the effects. DG has been a class-defining ability for as long as I can remember, and as an Inquisitor one of the few tools I have that can save my group from certain death.
  8. Healious Active Member

    Nerf one of the inquisitors strongest spells without offsetting it somehow. You have got to be kidding me! I have 2 inquisitors. One being my main, that I have played for years. Right now we are probably the least desirable healers in the game. Who is running this train wreck nowadays? This is just rediculous.
  9. knine Well-Known Member

    This has been around forever and now all of a sudden you are saying it contributes to lag? The lag hasn't been horrible till let's say the last year or so. You changed the multiattack saying that contributed to lag. Now this is the answer?? I just don't buy it. Maybe eliminating the gross amount of damage proc that are happening could be a fix. The constantly ticking aoes that probably hit in a single frame as you say could be causing, but to say dg is the overall problem is laughable. I'm not trying to be a pain as I play both a mystic and Templar but again, dg has been around for a long time and there was minimal lag if any when it came out.
  10. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    MULTIPLE things can contribute to lag to various degrees. There is no 'one' answer.
  11. knine Well-Known Member

    I understand that. But nerfing something that hasn't been broken is messed up. Let's see if the constantly ticking aoes on the mobs this expac is what is making dg proc 100 times I one frame. Why would you need the mechanics of the spell instead of readjusting the mobs. Ticking damage is messed up anyway and if you trace it back I bet this was/is the biggest contributor to the lag issue as we know it. Put back in curses not to cure, porting you from mobs, and a bunch of other mechanics that have been used before with little to no issues.
  12. Malleria Well-Known Member

    Seems to me the problem isn't so much that the ability has the potential to trigger so many times in a short period of time that it creates unacceptable levels of strain on the servers, but that scenarios are being put into game (apparently regularly, since the lag complaints encompass all of the raid zones) where this volume of triggers is capable of happening.
    Quabi, Laiina, Avirodar and 4 others like this.
  13. The Jones Active Member

    I assume this is the same reason the zerker heal procs were nerfed. It sucks that there is no simple fix for lag, but maybe there should be some foresight to avoid these issues instead of changing abilities that worked fine for years. I don't doubt that these "fixes" will improve lag slightly, but maybe the bigger problem is that the game is becoming more loaded with procs and every class is starting to get more blue AE's to trigger said procs?

    The ability is obviously still really good, but a dedicated cleric has every right to be frustrated when they see something like this with no offset to the nerf. Same goes for zerkers...
  14. knine Well-Known Member

    Zerkers still heal a lot lol. Even with the nerf. A tank out healing a healer is a little crazy, but that is for a different forum :)
    Neiloch likes this.
  15. Silzin Active Member

    I hope the Base Heal amount is increased to compensate the Trigger limitation
    Tharrakor likes this.
  16. Xakanis Active Member

    What about the other tanks that totally negate much, much more damage that is never seen on the parse? For example a stone-skin can negate an infinite amount of damage that you never see.
    konofo likes this.
  17. Tubba New Member

    Or we could stop running eq2 on an atari 2600 Would that help?
  18. Meirril Well-Known Member

    What if the most common scenario is pulling a huge number of encounters? Are you saying that dev needs to make it to where we stop pulling several weak encounters at once? If so, how would they do that? Your asking for an even bigger nerf than this and your not even realizing your asking for it.

    There will probably be more nerfs like this. I prefer that dev move slowly and check the results of one change at a time rather than trying yet another complete overhaul that may or may not fix things and would be harder to reverse if the results they were looking for didn't happen.

    And if dev doesn't get the results they are looking for with Divine Guidance, I'd appreciate it if the change would be reverted. Not that I think they won't get the desired results. Just saying that if a change doesn't result in what you want, undo the change.
  19. Beyoncia Well-Known Member

    DG has minimal impact on the lags, near zero I'd say. It's all about the amount of information transfered back and forth. I'm not a programmer, but I bet there is a huge difference( we still use binary data system, right?) between sending 10000 and 1000000 number. Our stats, dps, any number in the game went sky rocket high; we have hundreds of procs, lots of instant cast abilities. Yes, DG could influence it as well, but compared to the other stuff it's like a drop of water in the see.
    I say it again, the only way to deal with lags-do it the blizzards way: reduce every number in the game at least by 10, remove most of the procs, make some instant abilities castable, reduce the total number of abilities, buffs and so on. Honestly, why do a priest need 3 separate hp\mitigation buffs? Merge it in one.
    Laiina likes this.
  20. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    If I want to play a MMO where I have to stop and wait for a bad thing to happen so i'm not stuck by lame game mechanics I have plenty of options. If I want an online game where my reaction time actually matters without hitting a speed 'ceiling' due to long GCD's or animation locks my options are few. EQ2 is a nice happy medium.

    This change would fall under less procs. Static buffs cause little problem but 'reactive' type ones can because its just another type of proc. So I agree if they make them trigger less frequently they will need to make those occurrences much more potent.

    Multiple abilities don't contribute additionally to lag unless they can be casted in tandem and there is only a small handful that can. Casting 1 ability 20 times in 10 seconds would be no different than casting 20 different abilities in 10 seconds outside of their individual mechanics. Now the mechanics within those abilities, that's different and they are being addressed as we have seen here and in Etox. Combining abilities could also cause problems depending on what they are. If say you combined a debuff only ability with a damage one, you now have a new 3rd ability that needs 2 updates in one frame rather 2 different updates on 2 different frames, apart they distribute the load more lightly.

    I cant recall exactly but I think its 'uplifting' proc mechanic that causes a lot of stress as well, so I doubt we will see many of those itemized in the future.

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