Best Raid DPS Class

Sleap@Befallen wrote:

I'm not sure anyone is argueing that assisn/wiz should not be the top of single target parses.


People are upset with other dps classes that are underperforming. Not that we're saying they should top the parses, but some should be higher than what they are.

One thing I find interesting is that Necro and Conjuror are usually thought of as dps classes, yet seldom do they (esp Conj) actually parse out anywhere in the top 6 or so.
Necros do a little better than Conj, but in many raid parses I have seen all summoners fall below even such "crowd control" classes as Coercer in dps.

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

Uhm.. that is a fairly big assumption on your part. IF they actualy have a QA it is more likely to be concerned with the accuracy of the coding and not specifically with the theme of the changes. The direction and theme are the chief game dev mechanic's interpretation with probably some team input. Any business always has one person ultimatly deciding things. Something like this would typically go to the technical expert and the "business" leadership would only get involved if it starts to hurt overal profits.
QA would only be concerend with ensuring the coding matches the intent of the change, not the quality of the change itself. SO it doesn't take a tin foil hate to see some personal gain in the latest changes. As far as people taking advantage of position within a business, please need I really list all of the occassions of this happening. While this in no way of any legal issue, we have seen this going on for some time and made obvious since GU43, one only has to reference the news (ENRON anyone, recent housing crisis anyone?) to see examples of people taking advantage of thier position within a business.
Fix casters resists / mits remove GU 43!!!! We will not tolerate a 2 year delay on such a critical issue.

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

QA do not advise on balance issues, they are simply there to make sure changes to the game are implemented as per the developers intentions, and do not cause any side effects.
Bank managers have procedures to follow, people they are responsible to, and laws to bind them. Game developers, when it comes to issues such as balance, have no laws to bind their performance, and judging by much of the output of developers over the last 3 years they also have no procedures to follow, and are responsible to no one past their player base, hence we are here telling them we are not happy about this issue.

Sleap@Befallen wrote:

This is novel, your using the classes name to justify it being the only class capable of topping the parse.
Thats a valid argument right there folks!

Noaani wrote:

Right on the money Noaani, so lets see:
Gandalf was a wizard, Gandalf could solo the zone named boss mob (See Balrog - mines of moria) isn't it therefore the point that all eq2 wizards should be able to solo zone named boss mobs becasue... they are wizards?
Jest and fools logic aside all we are asking for is cloth DPS to be competitive again. Enough having the top 2 and 3 slots on the ZW DPS parse always owned by melee in all raids at all raid levels. This isn't balance. Add the insult that the same is true for instances and cloth DPS is becomming more a chore than a relaxing pastime.

Fix casters resists / mits remove GU 43!!!! We will not tolerate a 2 year delay on such a critical issue.

One thing you are not looking at here is the casting times and recast times. I have a 70 Warlock, if the Wizard is similar to the Lock, they there casting times range from 1-5 secs, Assassins casting time is usually no more than 1 sec. Not to mention in the Assassin's aa line you can cut down the recast times if i remember correctly by 50%. Trigger chances from poisons in AA line can be increased by 25%. Wizards CAN parse, they are just slower casters than assassin's. Not to mention that you casters can root and nuke, with killing nameds. Assassin's on the other hand cannot use there big attacks on nameds because they see invis. So we ( assassin's ) have to try and dish out as much damage as possible while getting hit and TRY to kite, which in most situations there are too many other mobs around to do so. My Warlock is great and rooting and nuking without losing much health.

Sleap@Befallen wrote:

IMO, FWIW, Troubador is the best raid dps class I've found.

The total differential in raid wide dps with and without a troub exceeds any other class.

Ya im not 100% on the info for Assassins. Mine is lvl 49 atm with 64 AA's. So im still learning the skills, etc. Just another thing crossed my mind while i was at work... We all know that bards are horrible solo and on the parse, mainly because they are mostly if not totally for group buffs. Wizards/Warlocks offer buffs for the group, whether its power and magic/disease or poison resists and such along with nukes. Assassin's/ Rangers only offer group speed buff. So maybe thats why Assassin's/Rangers normally hit the top of the parse list, since they dont offer any buffs for the group they are souly for DPS. /shrug

Sleap@Befallen wrote:

First, the possability that one class may be better while soloing than another does not justify 2 classes that are supposed to be T1 raid DPS being demonstratably unequal.
Second, the vast majority of named mobs that matter are totally immune to all control effects, so wizards can not root them. A well played scout of any flavour is able to solo more RoK heroic names than an equally well played wizard. This is not true for lower levels, where controll effect immunities are a lot rarer.
So, not only is the comment about soloing not a valid one for this conversation, but in RoK, scouts are better off at both raid DPS and at soloing heroic names.
I guess I should thank you for bringing in another area that mages in general have been penalised this expansion, not that it is at all relavient to this topic.

Sleap@Befallen wrote:

Actually, some of us don't know that at all, since it's not particularly true.

Luinne@Kithicor wrote:

I'm usually not one for subscribing to forum drama, but in this case he's absolutely correct.
Assassins completely dominate raid parses on literally 99% of encounters in RoK. Their epic is, frankly, overpowered (and guess what, completely escaped the upcoming round of nerfs), and the mass of crit / double attack availability from gear and buffs has seen them rise above all other DPSers.
A high end raid parse on yellow/white trash has an Assassin between 9-13k dps, and all other classes sit around 6-8k. And when I say 9-13k I don't mean only when Execute is up - I mean consistently, chain pulling. A Wizard can maybe, if they really get randomly lucky on double attacks, do about 10k, but that's a bad parse for an Assassin. If this isn't the case for your guild then there's a significant skill/gear discrepancy between players. In VP when classes miss more DPS goes down, but the Assassin is still about 1kdps ahead of everyone else, particularly casters, who get way too many resists.
On named, again the Assassin dominates most of the important fights, since mobs like Trakanon, VS, Maestro, and many others, all debuff or kill casters far more readily. A Sorcerer is a waste of space on Trakanon if you can get an Assassin in his place.
On dev bias; I wouldn't have believed this either, except...
I wouldn't have believed they'd have moved their buddies off the test server to a live server after gearing them through unfair means - they were caught red handed doing this.
I wouldn't have believed they'd have played in actual guilds on live servers which lockdown contested, and given them insider info on strategies - they were caught red handed doing this.
I wouldn't have believed a dev would have emailed their guild saying they'd be happy to 'turn a blind eye' to them exploiting Drusshk to get mythicals - they were caught red handed doing this
With this track record, I have absolutely no problem believing the current balance reflects what classes the game designers play. The dev playing an Assassin has even posted regarding assassins with some very flawed logic attempting to justify why they should dominate every single trash parse - a post which, in all honestly, looked more flawed and biased in its argument than most posts by random forum members. Anyone who would defend the current developers is either naive or unaware of their track record.

I don't play an assassin but I personally feel that they should be in the top three on the parse. Again there is so much more to this game than just a parse. I feel let those classes that need to be dps be just that "dps" and that is where an assassin should be dominate. Now if an assassin starts topping the healing parse I will get concerned.
That is just my opinion.

Aull wrote:

I don't play a healer but I feal any healer class should be forced to group or raid to do anything. I mean they heal that is there purpose, why should they be able to do anything solo? What is the point of healing then? They should dominate healing others that's all. I feel those classes that need to heal should only be able to heal others and that is where a healer should dominate /sarc off

Aull wrote:

Do you also feel a wizard should dominate a parse? since they bring less to a raid than an assassin, it would only make sence.
Shame this is not reflected by current in game parses.

This thread is about "Best Raid DPS Class", not "let's bash a developer". Please keep this on track. I've already had to prune some serious cases of de-thread'o'mania, and if others choose to persist, this thread can be locked or those that choose to beat the devs can be removed.

~Gnobrin.

I am still wondering what happened to my Conjuror.
When I was doing T7 raids, I was nearly always in the top 4, but now I am lucky to even make the parse.
Did I get nerfed (or the mobs boosted) between Jan and June?

What classes are currently played by devs that raid? I want one that will never be nerfed!

Laiina wrote:

There are some other threads around that can explain it MUCH MUCH MUCH better then I can say. The short and simple answwer is you got nerfed. You got nerfed because all of that crazy good caster gear only buffs you and does nothing for your pet. So if your pet is 20% of your total dps (this isn't exact I just threw out a number) you only upgraded your 80% leaving that other 20% behind in the dust. Also from what I understand resist rates since a fairly recient GU have really put casters at the back burner with their long casts and then to get a resist makes it very very frustrating.