All dressed like Grandma's?

CorpseGoddess wrote:

Actually yes I would like to see the barbarians of Everfrost in more "cultural" garb, be it "Celtic" influenced or, IMHO which would make more sense given the fact Everfrost is...well, very very snowy and resembles more Scandanavia... "Viking" influence. It would give some flavor to the game.

Also, I do think that realism in fantasy IS important. As a writer. As an arist. Even the most "far fetched" fantasy tales need to have SOME "Rule set" that most people can identify with OR they are just too abstract for the general populace to wrap their minds around. Long swords. Claymores. Spears. Great axe. Chainmail. Leather jerkin. Pantaloons. -ALL- taken from REAL history. Fantasy or not, we, as humans, have to have something we can understand to compare it to or else we're lost. That's the reason humans have always felt they have to give a name to everything, to categorize it, etc. It is just how the human mind works.

So the whole "well you can do anything it's fantasy!" is a nice idea, but in all actuality... even our imaginations do and must follow some structure or else no one is going to friggen understand wtf you are talking about and they certainly are not going to pay to play a game that has no viable "setting" they can recognize on some basic level.

I've said it before in this thread. For whatever reason, SOE has decided to make this game more "realistic" IN the sense that armor is armor. That may change. However, like I mentioned before, so long as the clothing is tasteful and suits the class, great. Tasteful is the bruiser gi's. They look very nice, they show a bit of skin, BUT they are functional and make sense.
Also, as a woman... I don't feel the need to run around with the most beautiful avatar just "because" its fantasy. In fact, half of my characters are males. One of them is severely scarred via Sandor Clegane style. Not everyone in fantasy is beautiful or attractive... another pet peeve of mine. I don't like the excuse "well its fantasy, everyone should be beautiful since we can't be IRL". Boring. It'd be like a never ending convention of super models. If everyone is beautiful, then honestly they WOULDN'T be beautiful because that's the norm. Bit off topic but in this case I believe its relevant. Cheers to all those gutsy enough to play less than pretty characters/avatars

CorpseGoddess wrote:

So well said, and much of how I feel.

Lasai wrote:

Agree here as well. This is the kind of tolerance and open-mindedness that SOE is (very) slowly starting to develop. The Appearance Tab was an auspicious start. Now they need to build on it.

Choices, choices, choices. Amen.

Kaitar wrote:

I think it's great that you have a vision for your character that is not the "model" looking ideal that is so popular in this day and age. And it's great that Sony gives you the options to do that. My characters tend to be on the "cute" or pretty side. That's what pleases me in playing this game. And it's cool that Sony allows me to do that too. This is the wonderful thing about having choices. You get to make your character in a way that follows your vision and I get the same opportunity.
I would simply like to have the same option to dress my characters in a way that *I* think fits my image of them. Again (have posted here more than once), I don't think it should be chainmail bikinis and everything up to convent garb. I think it should be a span of middle ground in between. Tasteful but slightly less conservative armor (Gi's come to mind but there are other ways of accomplishing the same idea showing less skin). And here's where "choice" comes in again. Sony put in the awesome appearance tab. If you don't like the look of some armor you are wearing because it doesn't fit your vision of your character, you can make her look any way you want.
Just a thought.

Just a clarifying question, because I am genuinely unsure as to how you intended the italicized portion to come out. While I understand that you wish to dress your characters the way you wish to (and who doesn't, regardless of where they fall in this debate), you don't think that it should be chainmail bikinis to convent garb for, again, strictly your characters? If that is the case, I can readily respect your viewpoint, as you wish your clothing options to occupy, as you aptly put it, the 'middle ground'. That suggests to me a reflection of the appearance you wish your characters to convey, without passing unnecessary judgment on the sartorial preferences of others, and well done.

I think whether or not someone clads a character in a chainmail bikini should be dependent on character concept, more than anything else. I am fully aware that not everyone thinks that clothing options like this are the best of ideas, but again, we are speaking of having the choice, and that should be a paramount consideration above all other things. SOGA elves, as I have said before, are hideous, deformed, and repulsive - but just because I see them this way does not mean people shouldn't have the option to use the SOGA models to portray their elven characters. I like to at least have the illusion that I am broad-minded enough to tolerate such things.

Kaitar wrote:

I think you're creating a paradigm here that doesn't really exist. Am I "gutsy" because I exist in real life as a "less than pretty" person? No, I just am who I am (of course, there's makeup and salons and whatnot should I choose to change my real "appearance tab", but the base person is the same). So am I "cowardly" because I *choose* to make an avatar that I find beautiful and is esthetically pleasing to *me* and just happens to be that way to others as well? I'm not trying to pick a fight here at all, just pointing out the subjectivity of the this whole conversation.

All of the characters options in the game are the optimal look for their race, in my opinion. I mean, they don't give you the option to have one eye larger and lower than the other, or have a third stub of an arm growing out of your chest, or have a giant mouth full of razor teeth. They're all anthropomorphic and in proportion to themselves for the race, yes?

If everyone is beautiful, then it MUST be fantasy, right?

And if they gave me the option, hells yes I'd have scars on my perfectly-proportioned dark-elf female bruiser. And that, to me, would make her even *more* beautiful.

I love fantasy because it is just that---fantasy. If I could make an avatar that looked just like me---well, personally, that would take me out of the game quite a bit rather than "putting me in it". If I'm going to run around a virtual world with talking dragons, frogs that can tank, small rat men with interesting speech patterns, fly on a cloud to an island anchored in the sky by giant chains, die repeatedly with no downer except some xp debt, and kick butt like I've always fantasized about being able to do---well, I'd like to let my imagination run wild with how I look while I'm doing it. And personally, I'd like to look as good as possible while doing all that because I can---it's in no way related to my real life.

CorpseGoddess wrote:

And, not everyone need to be beautiful! My opinion is that, Player Characters should be more Beautiful/Handsome then 99.9% of NPCs.
This is the opposite of what is currently in game. Antonia Bayle (the obligatory "marketing babe" ), Valkyres in Everfrost, Succubi in Enchanted the Lands/Rivervale, Dryads in Oakmyst/Rivervale, Vampiresses in Bloodline Chronicles, Female Merchants & Genies in Maj'Dul are all more beautiful (& dressed "hotter" ) then any female PCs. (Don't get me started on Male Avatars.)
This is just backwards. This is another area that CoH did well, namely that NPCs were more drab and generally less attractive then the equivalent PC Hero/Heroine.
So, not everyone needs to be beautiful, but leave being "plain" to the NPCs The game is about Heroes (or Dark Heroes if your from Freeport), let the focus be on them.
(Edited to remove some unwated "autosmilies" from the post.)

As a teenaged male, I am fine with the armor the way it is. I wouldn't care if there were more revealing armor sets added, as long as you can still have the more covering ones. My female main is currently wearing a chest piece with the texture that has a neckline just a bit below the collar, and I think that is the most revealing I would want her clothes to be. I don't have anything against someone having a burkha, or someone having a chainmail bikini, as long as you aren't saying that everyone else should have to wear it too.

Well, if the pictures of crafted armor in RoK up at EQTraders are any indication, the Burkah is alive and well for yet another year. Long live the Burkah. Very disappointing. Basically the new stuff is recolored and textured T1 thru T7. Cannot understand how much mileage they expect to get out of these same armor sets.

Qandor wrote:

From the time the Skeletal Revamp comes in to anytime after that we will see new armor, new textures, weapons, etc. but until then its hard for them to resize, reshape the models 72 times. For now we'll just have to wait till the update where the Skeletal Revamp goes in, or the next expansion.

CorpseGoddess, not once did I bring anything remotely similar to RL "how you look" into the argument. I think you're digging way too deep darling.

The point is this. More than 75 percent of people I've seen in any game always try to convey the fact their avatar is a god's gift to *insert gender here*.

So I'm giving a thumbs up to the people who don't have to rely on their characters having large, buxom breasts or a face like Adonis in order to play, be happy, make an interesting character. As I said it was slightly off topic, but it is relevant in the "sexy clothes" thing in a round-a-bout way.

And yes, all the avatars ARE boringly "perfect", which is one of MY pet peeves of the game. Not lack of "sexy" clothing but rather lack of "un-sexy" avatars, but that's what imagination is for. Adrassiv may not have scars on his avatar but I do my best to convey that he does in my bio. Hopefully with the skeletal changes SOE will fix this and add some less savory "omg look I'm a super model WE'RE ALL SUPER MODELS!" to the avatars.

And none of my avatars look like me that wasn't what I was saying either, though I still hold my ground on the fact that seeing someone be unafraid to play a character that's supposed to be either down right ugly or just plain ? Kudos to them. I like MY fantasy to have some grittiness to it, and that doesn't make it any "less" fantasy than a sparkly world where everyone is a size 3 with DD cup breasts or 6 foot 5 inches tall and broad shouldered. And the argument of "I want to look as good as possible" is the usual one. That's fine if it's your thing, but my off-topic statement was directed, not to you and the many people with that view, it was directed at people who have chosen NOT to play the buxom fantasy heroine/ dashing fantasy hero (or heck, villain, most of them turn out OMGHAWT too for that matter ) It was, in fact, more a statement to those RPers whom I'm sure are reading this thread.

So. No that wasn't an "attack" on you sweetheart, that was a "I like your grit" to people playing those *gasp* ugly/plain folk in a world where most everyone else wants sparkly and wonderful and sexy.
So I'm going to stop this topic here since it's gone waaaay off the thread subject. If you care to debate more (though frankly I see nothing to debate about. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to enjoy it just as you can enjoy your buxom beautiful characters) then please PM me.

here this armor is stylish yet looks very protective, no?

TheLastLogan wrote:

Hehe, actually no. Stylish certainly. But the armours is about getting a blow to slide off, rather than merely taking it. And it's not a good idea for armour to have a load of wierd bits as they can actually steer a blow into the body rather than let it slide off. Those shoulders are open to a stab, and even a slash would be steered deeper into the shoulder. The rib part looks weak, and a stab could ignore it. But that's academic really, long as an armour doesn't look blatanly counter to protection it fits this games imagery eh.

Wyrmypops wrote:

Its a game with magic. The obvious reply but I will go a step further.

There are some universes where there are diffrent types of damage and swords are made out of magical materials that cut through steel like paper. The protection against this is magical. In some cases its a projected bubble of protection. Meaning the armour the imbued magic is centered upon can be almost any size and still provide the protection.
Seriously, its fantasy with magic, magic has rules but those rules are far far greater than any 'realistic' notions.

Sooooo

What you have is the "non-magical" cheapo stuff at the low levels then start getting into the better stuff with rune etchings and improved look (giving your enemy the feeling that you are a powerful warrior can be half the fight) moving into entrily magical peices which can have ANY look. This is the progression of a magical fantasy world.
We have the first levels down great and are starting to get into the middle bit, more to go SOE.

AratornCalahn wrote:

This is an excellent point...even the best-crafted 'realistic' weapon made of the finest materials by the most skilled master weaponsmith in all the land is going to be worthless against, say, a Steppes griffon, an Amygdalan, and gods forbid, Nagafen. You'd likely live - but only because he'd be laughing so hard, he'd be peeing his scales at the utter absurdity of the whole thing. But don't think for a minute you'd even scratch him with your Masterwork Realistic Sword of Belabored Argument.
Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment, let us consider the "Chainmail Bikini". With the aforementioned Very Poignant Argument about Magic Weapons vs Realistic Weapons taken into consideration, all the full-coverage metal armor in the world is going to be worth precisely zip if there is no magic augmentation. Your paladinette is so much soup fixin's after her twin sister the shadowknight, treacherous cur that she is, comes after her with her +100 Vorpal Claymore of Deity Emasculation.
But, our paladinette is nothing if not intuitive. She steps onto the field of battle, her battle-bikini glittering in the sun. Her sister gives her an amused look, and swings her fearsome weapon, intent on cleaving her where her exposed belly offers an irresistible target.

And grunts in shock as a jarring force travels up the blade and into her arms as her sword impacts...something. She looks...there is a small cut on her sister's side, the small part of the damage that the enchantment did not turn aside. Thinking quickly, she casts a noxious bolt of poison that even magic armor is useless against, and while the paladin chokes, she runs like a roadrunner for the nearest Ulteran Spire.

The nest time they meet, she displays her new protection, her own gleaming plate battle-bikini, shimmering black and etched with silver runes inscribed by the Overlord's most skilled runesmiths.

Okay...admittedly, this Devil's Advocate Moment is taking things to the extreme reaches of the spectrum. However, that does not mean that the option should not be there. I dress my frumpy, middle-age gnome warlockette in a normal burkah-type robe, and always will. Its what she wears, all that's missing are the blood splatters from her surgical atrocities (and I doubt I will ever get something like that, wish as I might). But that doesn't mean that her lithe and curvaceous dark elf coercer neighbor from across the street wants to wear the same thing. She might actually want to 'show the goods' as much as possible without actually violating the indecency laws (and were I to make a coercer character who was a dark elf female, I might actually adopt this mindset for the character).

Why? Its a distraction. I remember an NPC from the 2nd Edition Dungeons and Dragons boxed accessory Menzoberranzan, a drow priestess of personable temperament and curvaceous stature (I do not recall her name) who was her noble house's permanent representative at the vast underground marketplace where all races could gather to trade freely. Her house did not know how she always managed to get such amazing concessions from others, especially trading partners from hostile races, and didn't care - as long as she kept on doing it.
Her secret was no secret at all - she conducted all her business in soothing surroundings, and she conducted it in the buff. Her distracted trading partners, especially males, often went away from the bargaining sessions wondering how she's managed to negotiate such ridiculous concessions (for them) into the trade agreements.

Another extreme example? Yes. But that does not mean it is any less appropriate.

Do not force anyone to wear things like that - always give them the option to 'cover up'. But always give the players the choice.

It is all about choice. The choice what to wear what you envision your character wearing. The choice to choose not to play with characters dressed like that if it offends you that much. The choice to allow each person to play the game they want to, not the way you want them to.

Choices. Its simply a great idea.