What should a pet be allowed to do in Everquest?

8822812 / 2000 = 4,411.406 dps of the mob to the pet.

9162420 / 2000 = 4,581.21 dps of the mob to the pet.

4,581.21 / 4411.406 = 1.0384 = 3.48% increase in the pet's damage taken for those wondering.

It isn't really that big of a deal.

The change to your rune is the only issue of importance, and it most certainly affects you more in the raid game than the group game. Your rune took any amount of damage in a hit, vs the changed version taking a cap.

Last I checked group named don't hit 22k, though if I am wrong please correct me. So melee damage taken under the rune effectively is still 0. On a raid however they will take considerably more damage as raid mobs hit over 22k, which was the intent.

That leaves the only issue of AEs. Yes, pets will now take some damage from group named mobs' AEs, but I would hardly call it too much. Even the top AE gets mitigated to under 30k damage, which is certainly within acceptable healing ranges.

Real tanks don't even have close to that kind of spell damage mitigation. It was clearly unbalanced in favor of the pets.

Some T2 group named do hit for 22k. Hell, VoA T4 group named hit for 22,600. There are also a few quest mobs that hit MUCH harder, the mino cooks in Xorbb hit for like 40k. While I'm not in beta, based on the fact that VoA stuff hits for over 22k means I'm pretty sure almost every named in T3 will hit that hard.

The real question is, how does the rune work if the mob hits harder? Does it absorb 22k and let the rest through, or does it not absorb anything at all? Also, is a charge depleted if it absorbs nothing?

I stand corrected, but it doesn't really change my point...

I can't speak on it directly, but I would expect that it would absorb up to 22k and then let the rest through. This would have your pet take 600 damage from the named. I'm sure your pet can handle being hit for 600 points of damage.

You and I both tested an event in T3 where the mob hit for 70k+. Granted it is for messing up, but the point remains the pets take DMG when before they didn't. It is significantly more DMG then they were forced to take before. I am unsure how taking DMG when you didn't take DMG before will not effect the group game.

And that was on a Shards landing mob. DMG values are higher in Xorbb, but Beta makes porting to there a pain.

And you mentioned the exact issue with tanks lol. It is amazing how people bring up tanks lacking things so pets need to be nerfed. Tanks do not have that kind of spell shielding because SOE does not want them to have it or they simply have not asked for it in a way they will get it. SOE obviously wants pets to have it, and if people were not being stupid pets would still have Aegis. Faydwer it was put in-game, but no when pet tanking is at its highest it needs to be changed?

Like I said 0 arguments have been made against pets w/o mentioning tanks lacking. That points to Tanks need more spell mitigation, not pets need less spell mitigation plain and simple.

I said it wasn't that big of a nerf numerous times, even in the exact post you quoted me on. Was it a nerf though? Was it the second nerf since SoF Beta launched? Both answers are yes. And both nerfs have an impact on the group game. Which is what Piestro asked for.

What do you believe SOE will do when they figure out this nerf did nothing to either issue in this thread? Those being tanks lacking spell mitigation and raid pet tanking. Well it certainly won't be fix group tanks, it will be lets nerf pets again in a month when guild X uses a pet to tank Luclin. Which again is the whole concept here, it will not stop at one minor nerf it will snowball into much greater nerfs.

Pets should be allowed at the very top end to tank current end zone named mobs in a group setting. They should need full buffs in order to do so. A pet class should not be able to self buff, pop a cleric merc, and molo any named in the game regardless of which EM item he or she has equipped. It should require at least a backup healer. They should be able to tank raid bosses in content older than let's say 2-3 expansion cycles.

They should be allowed to tank current raid bosses for a maximum of let's say 90 seconds. Enough to rez and buff a player. My guild's tanks cap out at roughly 125k HP, which is 25k less than a maxed out pet. (The pet doesn't have to deal with adds spawning on top of him and aggroing him. The pet can ignore emotes and often is not affected by AEs. There is no argument for why this is fair.) Pets should be able to offtank in raids. Otherwise they should be DPS like any other berserker or rogue.

That's for the original question. It's my opinion. I think it's fair for everyone. And I'm sticking to it.

When members of early expansion finishing guilds complain in 3-4 expansions in a row that guilds are using (perfectly legal) pet tanking to help themselves through some events and devs go on record as saying that wasn't intended for this or that event what does anyone expect to happen?

Let's kindly not blame tanks - tanks certainly gain nothing IF events which their guild relies on pets become undoable for them.

However, with the cat out of the bag - why should the pets of not a tank class tank better than tanks? A pet that surplants tanks in raids surplants them just as much when they tank in group content.

Pets should be able to tank yardtrash not named mobs - they shouldn't substitute for tanks in raid or in group content.

OR they should be able to tank even named mobs with significant downsides when tanks can't handle a mob or aren't available - people from endgame guilds wanting to delay trailing in the progression guilds should be ignored.

And no, tanks shouldn't get a huge boost every time another class is discovered to be OP. BTW two of the classes that tank get significant combat self healing which certainly can substitute for insufficient spell mitigation. The third class that tanks - the one that used to be called the Primary Tank gets buckis per usual.

Pets bypassing mechanics is code limitations. That's how it's fair.

If tanks are not to blame why are they the vocal majority on these threads against pet tanking? Your comments on that are not fully true.

Why are tanks allowed to DPS? I mean your job is to merely keep mobs off others. It works both ways.

Code limitations are what should have been changed in this case. Slashing HP/AC values might have been warranted also, but doing this and failing to address the real problems doesn't seem to be the right approach. When one tank has to deal with "code limitations" while the other doesn't makes that anything but "fair". Spare me!

Called sarcasm but its the truth. Out of our hands.

I'll agree with you on that.

So if the change was to raiding ability only, wouldn't it be safer to implement some kind of buff-restriction in raid instances or just being in a raid? That way it doesn't touch grouping or solo content at all.

I haven't even been to RoF zones for weeks now, thanks to caster mercs being broken for months now and refusing to nuke named mobs. I wish they'd fix them. T_T

They'd be familiars! That'd be so funny.

Player's familiar leaps forward and scratches Target.
Player's familiar leaps forward and scratches Target.
Player says, 'omg bleep bleep bleep?!'

Loading, please wait...

How much did they nerf the pets hps?? On top of taking more damage..

That's a sword in my hand, not a willow wand. You'd ask a fighter why he can fight? Your version of "it works both ways" makes sense only to impossibly partisan players.

Warriors are masters of offensive and defensive tactics able to wield all types of weapons <- note the word "weapons" rather than the phrase "ceremonial ornaments". Warriors have the unmatched ability to survive the most brutal battles. Nowhere did it say our job is merely to keep mobs off others.

You need to ask members of early finishing guilds why anyone would complain about pet tanking in raid events by other guilds in each of the last 4 expansions. I frankly don't mind occasional pet tanking in raids very much - it's Mage's taking group spots from Warriors in group content that raises my hackles.

I sure fire don't consistantly show up in raid parses in the middle of the DPS classes. Having pets tank and in some cases better than tanks is waaaay beyond my ability to comprehend.

more of my 2cp, from the lower end of the spectrum, since the release of voa ive grouped with a total of 3 yes 3 tanks that actually could... 2 of which were raid geared. there is no comparison in group game
with a real tank, one that can, one that has put in the effort to get the gear the augs and the aa.
vs. a pet or a merc for that matter. I would much rather have a real tank that could hold agro, unlike mage pet that works great so long as no one else wants to melee.
the entire reason I created a mage in the first place is that real tanks
are rare, more often than not what ive encountered is the substandard geared, substandard aa'd player
that just cant do the job... tanking classes need help, if its too much work to create and gear, aug, and aa a tank class then that needs addressed, give tanking classes automatic ca, cs, and whatever else
aa grants. and maybe find a way to up their initial stats and caps so they are more effective straight out of gloomingdeep, and that carries through the entire life of the toon. fix the real problem..., if pet tanking on raids is the problem then fix the real problem in the raid mechanics.
make it so a tank in a not so perfect gear situation with less than maxed aa count can do the job adequately in the group game. its my opinion that if we could find a way to give the tanking classes what they need it would likely solve a lot of issues. and mindless kneejerk reactions like omg nerf the pet classes wouldn't be necessary. again just my 2cp

Mages are pretty rare - where's my pet that can tank group and raid named mobs please. While we're at it, Clerics are kinda rare too.

Warrior, Paladin, SK, mercs - tanks aren't rare at all.

You can't be serious? You really expect us to believe this pet nerf has nothing to do with tanks? This change has everything to do with tanks, they were complaining, you helped them and nerfed us over, now we are complaining, your changes will do almost nothing to raid pet tanking, they have god knows how many healers spamming heals on the pet who's tanking, in a group you have 1 most of the time, and quite often that's a merc, so this lame nerf is going to affect the group game, NOT the raid game where it was intended for.

Go ahead and try to pass it off as either non tank related or a code change or w/e, I find it hard to believe you when your change has 0 effect on its intended target, yet you can get your code so precise now according to the above quote, but yet you are so blind as to what you've actually done here.

"I did not read this entire thread. I just want to make one thing clear.

The method that is being considered should not effect mage pet tanking in the group and solo game, only the raid game. It is possible in some extreme group situations, with certain very difficult group based NPC's that there may be an effect, but it will be the exception NOT the rule. As a rule, the mage pets will be as effective as they are currently in current group content. Upgrade will likely be necessary for future pets to be effective in future content, but that should not be unexpected. This will also be variable, with "hard" group NPC's (I.E. rares and bosses) needing an upgrade sooner than standard base-pop.

While this may confuse people, at this time I do not want to give details because the work is in progress and is subject to change.

Our goal is to ONLY affect raid tanking... not make group pet tanking worse, NOR make it better. If the change we have planned cannot manage this for 99% of group targets, then we will seriously evaluate the changes. Our current goal is to only affect pets raid tanking."


AGAIN taken directly from Ngreth at the end of January..

I guess I'm not understanding why, if you guys can get your code so precise now, that the group game even got dragged into this? you are perfectly capable of having the nerf effect raiding, also how did necros and beastlords get dragged into this as well? I WISH my pet could tank a raid mob for more than a few seconds.

.

Who are you to question the numbers of any class at any given time?

Where do you pull this magical information from that only you have?